113 réponses à ce sujet

[LexXxich]

This talk goes on without anyone actually knowing how defence stats work in DAI. Are they just Defence from DAO/DA2 split in 3, meaning chance to dodge damage/effect completely from melee, ranged or magic attacks respectively? Or are these names for damage resists? And which attacks count for which stat? Does KE's blade count as melee or magic? Does stuff projectile count as magic or ranged? What of Energy Barrage projectiles?
Without knowing that theorycrafting about which racial bonus is better is lacking ground to stand on.

[Drasanil]

On topic: Not sure why qunari only get 10% defense against melee while magic is probably the heaviest hitter and yet the dwarves get more than double against magic than what qunari get against melee. 

 

Probably has something to do with the majority of enemies using melee attacks, while ranged and/or magic attacks are comparatively rare. 

[AppealToReason]

I think the soft cap is 25-30. There's 12-14 'nodes' in each tree (11 in a spec tree). At 25, you'd basically be able to max 2 trees, which would give you around 9 fully-upgraded active skills.

 

So one point isn't really much then.

[Saiphas85]

So one point isn't really much then.

Depends, the current build I am looking at will require atleast 23-25 points, with several additional options that I still need to see.  that one point can mean anything from being able to access a later laent faster, or grab a passive or two that I could not have had otherwise.  The point's utility will certainly come off based upon what all the talents pan out.

[leaguer of one]

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Defense

 

In DA 2 defense where caped at 80%

 

Edit: Like Wulfram said, its defense not resistance.

Here's the problem with you assessment.

 

DA2  way of doing defense is not dai way of doing defense. In the  live twitch feed it was explained: armor based defence has a reduction/absorption level that takes damage before health.

 

If you has 200 health and you have 200 armor/barrier points and you hit with an attack that's 300 damage points, the armor/barrier takes 200 and the health take 100.

 

DAI defense is not the same as da2. It's a mix of dao and bulder's gate 1 and 2.

[Looper128]

Here's the problem with you assessment.

 

DA2  way of doing defense is not dai way of doing defense. In the  live twitch feed it was explained: armor based defence has a reduction/absorption level that takes damage before health.

 

If you has 200 health and you have 200 armor/barrier points and you hit with an attack that's 300 damage points, the armor/barrier takes 200 and the health take 100.

 

DAI defense is not the same as da2. It's a mix of dao and bulder's gate 1 and 2.

 

What your talking about is the armor that warriors get as extra health over their normal health and the barrier skill that mages have. But please once again, provide me with a source, as you say my assessment are purely based on how it worked in the earlier games.

 

If it works differently in this game the “power” ranking might weary well look quiet a bit different.

[leaguer of one]

What your talking about is the armor that warriors get as extra health over their normal health and the barrier skill that mages have. But please once again, provide me with a source, as you say my assessment are purely based on how it worked in the earlier games.

 

If it works differently in this game the “power” ranking might weary well look quiet a bit different.

Any of the 2 recent twitch live play though shows what you think is not the case. The fact it's called "Melee resistance" is another point to that. Also, none the abilities tied to resistance in dao and 2 is linked to defense/evade chance.

[Scerene]

the op called it defence, but ya im pretty sure its actually resistance. The op is lazy. Sorry boys! no op humans for you

[DMaster2]

So one point isn't really much then.

It is, since there are a lot of great passives out there, especially for mages.

[Gtdef]

Taking any kind of damage is bad in DAI. Unless the defensive racials can be exploited to reach immunity levels then they are useless.

[Scerene]

its not defence its resistance, as in soaks up dmg not helps you avoid it.

[Looper128]

Any of the 2 recent twitch live play though shows what you think is not the case. The fact it's called "Melee resistance" is another point to that. Also, none the abilities tied to resistance in dao and 2 is linked to defense/evade chance.

 

Where in the streams are they saying defense have changed from earlier games? And where are they calling it resistance?

[Looper128]

its not defence its resistance, as in soaks up dmg not helps you avoid it.

 

It says defense on the main page

[Gtdef]

its not defence its resistance, as in soaks up dmg not helps you avoid it.

 

That's even worse.

[Scerene]

if it is that kind of defence, then yes because of diminishing returns its garbage, gg bioware!

[Scerene]

how is that worse`?

[Scerene]

but then all of these resistance/evade/defence type stats always have dim returns, rather have the 1 skill still not gonna roll a hum for it

[Gtdef]

how is that worse`?

 

The non warrior classes in the demo took a huge amount of damage from every single hit. This means that mitigation isn't that worthwhile for them. Planning to take 3 or 4 attacks isn't that different especially since there is no healing any more. Not that avoidance would do much difference here, but in both previous DA games it always scaled better than mitigation. If attributes end up having similar functions then this probably won't change.

 

Also barriers do not take mitigation into account. If it is avoidance, then barriers would be more durable. No synergy with mitigation what so ever and barriers seem important.

[Shahadem]

The elf ability seems useless compared to magic resist. Something tells me that magic is going to be a much larger problem in a game focused on closing Fade portals.

[The Night Haunter]

Well in Pathfinder the Humans extra talent makes them far and away the best combat focused race for any non-caster (and plenty of caster) builds. I'm kind of expecting the same thing. There will probably be a passive that gives 15% damage reduction, and 15% of all damage > 25% of specific damage types. It can also be the difference between an awesome build and an ok build. Plenty of games I've played I would have killed for just 1 more talent/skill point to unlock an amazing synergy combo.

[Alodar]

I'm still not sold on this really being that balanced.

 

Unless there is a low level cap, by the end game this won't mean much. If it was an XP boost by like 3 or 4% then I get it, but with what I've seen of the ability system then all it means is I'll be, hypothetically, maxed on talents at level 19 vs 20.

 

It's actually much worse than that.

 

If you look at the PC demo Mike was maxed out on his mage at 12th level.

With that build all active abilities after 12th would be completely pointless (or they make something you've previously chosen completely pointless)

[The Night Haunter]

It's actually much worse than that.

 

If you look at the PC demo Mike was maxed out on his mage at 12th level.

With that build all active abilities after 12th would be completely pointless (or they make something you've previously chosen completely pointless)

If there were no passives you might have a point, but seeing as most trees seem to have as many passives as actives (plus upgrades skews the favor far towards passives) your point rights a little hollow.

[Icy Magebane]

It's actually much worse than that.

 

If you look at the PC demo Mike was maxed out on his mage at 12th level.

With that build all active abilities after 12th would be completely pointless (or they make something you've previously chosen completely pointless)

Not necessarily... some people are fine with swapping abilities based on the enemies they are going to be facing, whereas others construct builds to maximize the number of passives they can acquire.  There's more than one way to handle this... extra talent points are only worthless if you spend them recklessly.  So long as you have a clear objective in mind, an extra point could be a game changer.

[Anzer]

It's actually much worse than that.

 

If you look at the PC demo Mike was maxed out on his mage at 12th level.

With that build all active abilities after 12th would be completely pointless (or they make something you've previously chosen completely pointless)

It was possible (and in my opinion, quite likely) that Mike had used the console commands to provide himself with extra ability points beyond what the PC would normally have at that level, in order to show off more abilities / not get roflstomped while showing off the game.

[Alodar]

If there were no passives you might have a point, but seeing as most trees seem to have as many passives as actives (plus upgrades skews the favor far towards passives) your point rights a little hollow.

 

I said nothing about passives. I was responding to AppealToReason who was worried about being capped out for active abilities at 19 or 20th level.

 

Per the PC demo you can be capped out on active abilities at 12th level if not earlier.

 

The point still stands: As soon as you have chosen your 8th active ability one or more of your choices is rendered meaningless in each and every battle.

 

 

Not necessarily... some people are fine with swapping abilities based on the enemies they are going to be facing, whereas others construct builds to maximize the number of passives they can acquire.  There's more than one way to handle this... extra talent points are only worthless if you spend them recklessly.  So long as you have a clear objective in mind, an extra point could be a game changer.

 

Regardless of whether you are fine with swapping out abilities you only get 8 active per combat. Whether you choose wisely or recklessly is irrelevant, after you have chosen 8 actives it doesn't matter -- one or more of your choices is rendered meaningless in each and every battle.

 

 

It was possible (and in my opinion, quite likely) that Mike had used the console commands to provide himself with extra ability points beyond what the PC would normally have at that level, in order to show off more abilities / not get roflstomped while showing off the game.

 

Why would you think that possible or likely?

Mike repeated several times that he was far into the game and maxed out on active abilities at 12th level.