113 réponses à ce sujet

[Cypher0020]

1 skill point at the start is nice, but elves etc have much better starting stats

[Adhin]

He just said his bar was full, not that his builds entirely done or that he has all the actives he fully intended to use. There are a few actives I'll be getting I don't really want to use, but I need to use them just to get the passives or active I want. Basic RPG crap going on here. Yes I would like to have access to it if there's that 1 odd chance I might end up using the ability for whatever reason but I wont be using it 99% of the time anyway and wont miss it. Either way you obviously have a problem with the 8 max actives at a time, thats a bummer but that's what the games designed around.

 

As far as these racial bonuses are concerned, it definitely 'does' say Defense, not resistance, which probably means chance to be missed which I'm a bit bummed about with the Qunari. I'd imagine Guard (what they where talking about in twitch, no resist/defense) seems to be based off your health. Which is probably why Qunari no longer have +50 health as it could of given them a big edge? But then things seem to have thousands of HP at lvl 10-12 so... maybe not? Maybe the 10% defense seemed like a better choice? I dunno.

 

Anyway, we got Armor, Damage Resist (as well as individual resist like Spirit Resist), Melee, Ranged and Magic Defense (which is probably chance to ignore all dmg). And 2 things that are non-stat related mechanics like Guard and Barrier (these are ability/skill oriented but can be procs on weapons). Frankly, I'd rather just have the +skill on the human but I'm not going to let the racial bonus dictate what I play as. My Necro-Elf is gonna be an elf, I'll have a qunari, dwarf and human in varying classes.

[Anzer]

I said nothing about passives. I was responding to AppealToReason who was worried about being capped out for active abilities at 19 or 20th level.

 

Per the PC demo you can be capped out on active abilities at 12th level if not earlier.

 

The point still stands: As soon as you have chosen your 8th active ability one or more of your choices is rendered meaningless in each and every battle.

 

 

 

Regardless of whether you are fine with swapping out abilities you only get 8 active per combat. Whether you choose wisely or recklessly is irrelevant, after you have chosen 8 actives it doesn't matter -- one or more of your choices is rendered meaningless in each and every battle.

 

 

 

Why would you think that possible or likely?

Mike repeated several times that he was far into the game and maxed out on active abilities at 12th level.

Allow me to preface my post my stating that I have not watched the PC demo video because I am trying very hard to remain as spoiler free as possible. So Mike stated that he had maxed out on active abilities (effectively 8) at level 12. I assume you only care about active abilities from the rest of your post, so I'll not mention the numerous passives and upgrades to actives available that would not have been maxed out at level 12. *shrug*

[Icy Magebane]

Regardless of whether you are fine with swapping out abilities you only get 8 active per combat. Whether you choose wisely or recklessly is irrelevant, after you have chosen 8 actives it doesn't matter -- one or more of your choices is rendered meaningless in each and every battle.

That simply isn't true.  As I said before, planning your build in advance will allow you to maximize the effectiveness of your character if you are willing to work within the 8 skill limit.  Not having access to everything in your arsenal does not mean that those unavailable powers are wasted.  And if you feel that way, then design a character who only learns 8 abilities, with additional points spent towards unlocking specific passives.  The points are only meaningless if you refuse to adapt to the new system.

[In Exile]

Think of it as a free passive. 

[Alodar]

That simply isn't true.  As I said before, planning your build in advance will allow you to maximize the effectiveness of your character if you are willing to work within the 8 skill limit.  Not having access to everything in your arsenal does not mean that those unavailable powers are wasted.  And if you feel that way, then design a character who only learns 8 abilities, with additional points spent towards unlocking specific passives.  The points are only meaningless if you refuse to adapt to the new system.

 

Of course it's true. For that given battle those unavailable powers are completely wasted.

 

It's not a matter of refusing to adapt -- it's that limitation has no in game reason.

Unless you are aware of a reason that a character wouldn't use every skill they possess to save themselves or a village or the world.

Since I require that sort of verisimilitude from my games the issue is a non starter.

 

If some clever forumite figures out how to mod the game so a character will be able to use all the skills they have learned in any given combat then I'll pick the game up, otherwise it's a limitation I simply don't know how to roleplay.

[Alodar]

Think of it as a free passive. 

 

Oooh.

 

I haven't agreed with you in a long time.

 

Cool.

[Icy Magebane]

Of course it's true. For that given battle those unavailable powers are completely wasted.

 

It's not a matter of refusing to adapt -- it's that limitation has no in game reason.

Unless you are aware of a reason that a character wouldn't use every skill they possess to save themselves or a village or the world.

Since I require that sort of verisimilitude from my games the issue is a non starter.

 

If some clever forumite figures out how to mod the game so a character will be able to use all the skills they have learned in any given combat then I'll pick the game up.

How are they wasted if you never had access to them in the first place?  They don't exist if they are outside of the 8 skill limit, which is why you design the character around acquiring passives if you refuse to swap skills.

 

Oooh.

 

I haven't agreed with you in a long time.

 

Cool.

But that's what I've been saying... 

[AshenEndymion]

Unless you are aware of a reason that a character wouldn't use every skill they possess to save themselves or a village or the world.

 

Well, if one of those skills was "destroy the world", I hope the character wouldn't use it to save themselves, a village, or the world...  Just saying.

[In Exile]

Oooh.

 

I haven't agreed with you in a long time.

 

Cool.

My initial reaction was the same was yours - what's the point of an ability point when you have a cap? But DA:I has passives and DA:O /DA2 didn't. So it's whatever one of those you'll eventually be able to afford that you otherwise couldn't.

[AshenEndymion]

My initial reaction was the same was yours - what's the point of an ability point when you have a cap? But DA:I has passives and DA:O /DA2 didn't. So it's whatever one of those you'll eventually be able to afford that you otherwise couldn't.

 

DA2 had passive abilities.  Just 2 per tree, but still...

[In Exile]

DA2 had passive abilities.  Just 2 per tree, but still...

 

Oh, yeah, it did. I remember now. 

[Alodar]

How are they wasted if you never had access to them in the first place?  They don't exist if they are outside of the 8 skill limit, which is why you design the character around acquiring passives if you refuse to swap skills.

It's not a matter of refuse -- it's a matter of no in game reason.
I'm not interested in going through the histrionics of trying to build a character that doesn't violate common sense, I pick abilities because they are fun or that makes sense for that character to use.

I'm happy to wait for a modded game.
 

But that's what I've been saying... 

You were arguing many other things along with that which is what I've been disagreeing with. It has also has been a very long time since I agreed with InExile -- I found the experience novel.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I assume builds that want as many skill points as possible will want to be human, those who can make do without will prefer another race. Dwarf seems the winner here to me, 25% magic defense is pretty major. The elve's bonus is also really nice given it also applies to magic projectiles like dragon shots. And then the poor Qunari have a measly 10% melee defense. I'd have given them % more hit points myself, or increased damage to reflect their muscular frame.

[In Exile]

I assume builds that want as many skill points as possible will want to be human, those who can make do without will prefer another race. Dwarf seems the winner here to me, 25% magic defense is pretty major. The elve's bonus is also really nice given it also applies to magic projectiles like dragon shots. And then the poor Qunari have a measly 10% melee defense. I'd have given them % more hit points myself, or increased damage to reflect their muscular frame.

 

Melee is a lot more common than ranged attacks, and melee attacks as a rule do more damage. Plus, there are other abilities that reduce the effect of projectiles. For example, a KE can just slap dragon projectiles away. An elf KE could do that too, but that also happens to render its bonus pointless. 

[The Night Haunter]

Melee is a lot more common than ranged attacks, and melee attacks as a rule do more damage. Plus, there are other abilities that reduce the effect of projectiles. For example, a KE can just slap dragon projectiles away. An elf KE could do that too, but that also happens to render its bonus pointless. 

Only if your willing to batter away every projectile. The ones you miss or consciously decide to let through allow your passive to help. But I agree about melee, its why it is 10% as compared to 25%. Which is another reason why the human's is so powerful, it is customizable. Do you want extra defense? Pop that ability into a defensive passive. Want offense? Take an offensive passive. Support? Ditto. You can use it to help out where ever you want.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Melee is a lot more common than ranged attacks, and melee attacks as a rule do more damage. Plus, there are other abilities that reduce the effect of projectiles. For example, a KE can just slap dragon projectiles away. An elf KE could do that too, but that also happens to render its bonus pointless. 

 

It's still a pretty low bonus. 25% would probably do a difference. 10% is much less significant. An across the board damage reduction of 10% would be good, but only to melee is a bit weak.

[The Night Haunter]

It's still a pretty low bonus. 25% would probably do a difference. 10% is much less significant. An across the board damage reduction of 10% would be good, but only to melee is a bit weak.

Given the mobs we've seen in the twitch and youtube stuff, about 25% of the mobs are ranged based, 75% melee focused. Magic is much rarer, but demons probably all do magic attacks so it evens out in demon heavy zones.

[In Exile]

Only if your willing to batter away every projectile. The ones you miss or consciously decide to let through allow your passive to help. But I agree about melee, its why it is 10% as compared to 25%. Which is another reason why the human's is so powerful, it is customizable. Do you want extra defense? Pop that ability into a defensive passive. Want offense? Take an offensive passive. Support? Ditto. You can use it to help out where ever you want.

 

You have damage absorption like barrier for some of them and other temp. invulnerability powers like fade step to close distances and CC to prevent ranged attacks. I can't really think of a situation where ranged enemies would be a threat. Boss AOE is super damaging, making dodging a better choice than soaking

[Slash_luke]

Regardless of whether you are fine with swapping out abilities you only get 8 active per combat. Whether you choose wisely or recklessly is irrelevant, after you have chosen 8 actives it doesn't matter -- one or more of your choices is rendered meaningless in each and every battle.

 

 

You mean as like - in almost any RPG, ever? There are always some abilities/spells/etc that are rendered (temporarily) meaningless, because current enemy is immune or resistant to them. For example if you have to fight some fire elementals then every fire spell you have, is meaningless in that particular fight.

So you have to plan ahead - big deal. It's still better (or more "friendly") than AD&D system where you had to plan your spells much more ahead, because you had to sleep to memorize them and you had only limited spell slots (depending on your level/inteligence etc).

 

So you will just scout ahead and then plan your 8 active skills/spells according to possible dangers that you may encounter (or tactics you will want to use).

 

And be honest - how often did you use more than 8 different spells in one encounter?

[Scerene]

i wish theyd come up with something more substantial than a measly 25% extra defence, that will be useless in the anyway.

[ClassyUnicorn]

Not really related to the topic at hand but we know what defense does but what about attack?

[azarhal]

The elf ability seems useless compared to magic resist. Something tells me that magic is going to be a much larger problem in a game focused on closing Fade portals.

 

The Elf ability defend against all ranged attacks which include magical staff, most spells, dragon's spit, archers mobs, etc.

 

Magic resistance is only useful to resist the effects of spells (slow/sleep/fear/etc). It did nothing against elemental damage in the previous games.

[Adhin]

It's Magic Defense, not resistance, but it wouldn't surprise me if it worked the same as magic resistance from DAO (which was different from elemental resistances). Might end up being less confusing for people too. Though I wouldn't assume Ranged Defense effects any spell lobbed at you, at all. I also wouldn't assume it effected AoE explosions, or a dragon's flamethrowery like breath. And even if it does, it probably is a second by second check.

 

Would be nice if they would go over what all the stats actually do as it seems to be a bit of a mix of the past 2 games. I mean, Armor does seem to be a pretty high stat compared to DAO. But then so is damage at that the same comparable level but the dmg they actually do almost makes it seem like armor is direct DR instead of %based. But I have a feeling it's still %based like DA2. I just hope, if it is, it's not level dependent, really poor choice in DA2 to make it tied to level like that. Hey you leveled up, grats, you just got worse at using your own armor!

[Icy Magebane]

It's Magic Defense, not resistance, but it wouldn't surprise me if it worked the same as magic resistance from DAO (which was different from elemental resistances). Might end up being less confusing for people too. Though I wouldn't assume Ranged Defense effects any spell lobbed at you, at all. I also wouldn't assume it effected AoE explosions, or a dragon's flamethrowery like breath. And even if it does, it probably is a second by second check.

 

Would be nice if they would go over what all the stats actually do as it seems to be a bit of a mix of the past 2 games. I mean, Armor does seem to be a pretty high stat compared to DAO. But then so is damage at that the same comparable level but the dmg they actually do almost makes it seem like armor is direct DR instead of %based. But I have a feeling it's still %based like DA2. I just hope, if it is, it's not level dependent, really poor choice in DA2 to make it tied to level like that. Hey you leveled up, grats, you just got worse at using your own armor!

I remember hearing some time ago that the elven bonus defends against basic ranged magic projectiles (like staff attacks), but has no effect on AoE attacks or dragons' breath.  Just how common such projectiles will be in the game remains to be seen...