28 réponses à ce sujet

[Shinobu]

Amazon suggested I buy DA:I and on a whim I followed the link. The information on the game has been expanded to show all of the companions and at the bottom... are pictures of the male and female inquisitors.

 

Thank you, Bioware!

[Melca36]

Amazon suggested I buy DA:I and on a whim I followed the link. The information on the game has been expanded to show all of the companions and at the bottom... are pictures of the male and female inquisitors.

 

Thank you, Bioware!

 

That is fantastic!!

[Melca36]

Delete multiple posted. Sorry!

[vertigomez]

Aww, that's great news.

[Pen-N-Paper]

It reads like someone's novel synopsis. I appreciate the characters are deep.

I just hope we get to know them in a deeper way than from reading their bio on Amazon. It's supposed to be about role-playing. Right now I would have to meta-game because I have no in-game knowledge but enough out-of-game knowledge to "play" them. Role-playing folks will understand.

On one thread I asked for a demonstration of player agency in the game - using the example of role-playing interaction with an NPC. The criticism was that this would spoil the role-playing. My counter argument was that all the hours of video demonstrating combat do not seem to bother (or spoil) that aspect. Now I have a stronger argument, concerning my fear of a lack of player agency and role-playing in the game, with the fact Bioware has released bios of major characters that are spoilers in place of players exploring the NPCs in-game.

If you play rules-light tabletop RPGs, this situation reflects a game where boardgame munchkins write a back story of fan fiction and then engage in hack and slash (patting themselves for being role-players).

[Violet Carson]

This is so awesome! Thank you for sharing!

[themikefest]

Cool

 

I noticed when scrolling down they had descriptions of the companions that they call Blackwall "Blackwell". I'm sure its just a typo.

[thehomeworld]

Oh wow that's nice, The only issue I have with it is the inquisitioners aren't at the top of the character list people maynot scroll down that much unless they do want to look at the comments. But I agree with OP that its really good that they're showing both inquisitioners its an instant way to communicate you can choose your hero!

[Shinobu]

It reads like someone's novel synopsis. I appreciate the characters are deep.

I just hope we get to know them in a deeper way than from reading their bio on Amazon. It's supposed to be about role-playing. Right now I would have to meta-game because I have no in-game knowledge but enough out-of-game knowledge to "play" them. Role-playing folks will understand.

On one thread I asked for a demonstration of player agency in the game - using the example of role-playing interaction with an NPC. The criticism was that this would spoil the role-playing. My counter argument was that all the hours of video demonstrating combat do not seem to bother (or spoil) that aspect. Now I have a stronger argument, concerning my fear of a lack of player agency and role-playing in the game, with the fact Bioware has released bios of major characters that are spoilers in place of players exploring the NPCs in-game.

If you play rules-light tabletop RPGs, this situation reflects a game where boardgame munchkins write a back story of fan fiction and then engage in hack and slash (patting themselves for being role-players).

 

I think the blurbs were just to give us insight into each character's personality without going too much into their backstories. Knowing Bioware, there will be plenty of character interactions where they will get more fleshed out. To paraphrase Oghren "everyone has daddy issues" so we'll likely learn more about them over the course of the game.

[Pen-N-Paper]

 

I think the blurbs were just to give us insight into each character's personality without going too much into their backstories. Knowing Bioware, there will be plenty of character interactions where they will get more fleshed out. To paraphrase Oghren "everyone has daddy issues" so we'll likely learn more about them over the course of the game.

 Well, we folks differ with you in terms of what we call role-playing. You want a paint-by-numbers to flesh in a skeleton handed to you in pre-game approach, but we folks want to explore the personality evident from the in-game interaction so as to condense it to the bio written on the Amazon page. At the end of the game, we want to sum up the character based upon our play experience rather than at the start the game with the summary in hand.

Take for example,

Blackwell
The Grey Wardens hold a lonely vigil, enduring lives of hardship and sacrifice to protect the world from an evil that can never truly be conquered. Few would volunteer for this: the suffering, isolation, and promise of a violent death. But the path of a Warden is also one of valor, and those who give themselves to the cause are rewarded with the knowledge that they have become something more than they were. Blackwall is one of the rare few Wardens who chose, of his own accord, to pick up the shield. He believes so wholeheartedly in the noble ideal of the Grey Wardens that he would rather have this life than any other.

We folks want to come to this conclusion after we have played. I am understanding you and we folks come to role-playing from opposite perspectives; us folks from a more active, less certain, more realistic approach. [I was informed in an earlier exchange on this forum that we folks are in the minority & Bioware is disinterested in attracting/keeping so I am bolding the term "folks" to make the point.]

Based upon this bio for Blackwell I know all I need to know to turn him around my finger. In fact, I know more about Blackwell than I do friends on Facebook or my neighbour living next door for that matter. I know personal details about Blackwell without interacting with this character, which obviates active role-playing: 1) he volunteered and I know why he was so motivated, but not the specific event that will be the predictability you look forward to flesh in; 2) he will make a good mediator in negotiation, and I can justify this by saying he is the archtype Warden and would be highly regarded for his independence; 3) he is a classic hardman, like Sten from Origins; 4) he will willingly sacrifice himself for a greater good, unlike some Wardens, i.e Jory from Origins. And there is more that does not take much reading between the lines of his profile to take an educated guess in game to manipulate. If you follow the instructions in this character’s hard-coded principles, as published on Amazon, he will move along the Liking You scale further towards the positive side. We know that is the mechanic. Now we know how to manipulate the mechanic on Blackwell and the others. And none of us have even played the game.

Give me the dialogue wheel and I can strategically run this NPC like a chess piece. In fact, these blurbs are the character synopses the designers use to program the NPC responses – informing us the role-playing game becomes more a strategy game.

In tabletop role-playing games parlance: these bios are not within the boxed text but in the gray areas not to be read to the players. These are bios for the back of a novel – and every one should know that presenting a role-playing game as a novel is the death of player agency, which is closer to railroading when the tracks the NPCs run on are exposed. This spoils one element of fun in the game.

You might reply I can meta game and pretend not to know what I know, and you would be right from your perspective.

[R0vena]

 
 Well, we folks differ with you in terms of what we call role-playing. You want a paint-by-numbers to flesh in a skeleton handed to you in pre-game approach, but we folks want to explore the personality evident from the in-game interaction so as to condense it to the bio written on the Amazon page. At the end of the game, we want to sum up the character based upon our play experience rather than at the start the game with the summary in hand.

Take for example,


We folks want to come to this conclusion after we have played. I am understanding you and we folks come to role-playing from opposite perspectives; us folks from a more active, less certain, more realistic approach. [I was informed in an earlier exchange on this forum that we folks are in the minority & Bioware is disinterested in attracting/keeping so I am bolding the term "folks" to make the point.]

Based upon this bio for Blackwell I know all I need to know to turn him around my finger. In fact, I know more about Blackwell than I do friends on Facebook or my neighbour living next door for that matter. I know personal details about Blackwell without interacting with this character, which obviates active role-playing: 

Amm... should you not read all this information, then?

I know next to nothing about Blackwall except he is a possible LI, warrior  and Grey Warden. I know nothing about Josephine except she is an adviser... etc.

I don't like spoilers and want to discover all that in game - so I don't read that information and don't wach gameplay videos.

[Pen-N-Paper]

 

Amm... should you not read all this information, then?
I know next to nothing about Blackwall except he is a possible LI, warrior  and Grey Warden. I know nothing about Josephine except she is an adviser... etc.
I don't like spoilers and want to discover all that in game - so I don't read that information and don't wach gameplay videos.

It is not the play intention of the individual players that is revealed to me but, rather, the design of play intended by Bioware. Were they keener on a play style of role-playing and having decisions matter, there would be some demonstrative video of this rather than spoilers such as were posted on Amazon.

I posted about this suggestion/feedback here:
http://forum.bioware...cts/?p=17455241

I made the same mistake, as you claim to be doing now, with my purchase of DA2. I had played and enjoyed DA:O. Based upon that experience, I decided to pre-order DA2 and, unlike my experience before I played DA:O, not to expose myself to DA2 spoilers. It took some time for Amazon.com to deliver my order to Poland. By the time it arrived, the maelstrom of disappointment had reached me through online business-related magazines (of all places). At first I did not want to believe it.

Then I saw Kevin’s Togoff’s Let’s Play…. Then my game arrived. We know the story. As a result I am much less trusting and watching much more carefully what is being said and unsaid about this game. I do not want another game bookend to sit on my shelf like DA2.

And if I save the $105 it would cost me to buy this game from Amazon, I can easily afford a role-playing game like http://kingdomcomerpg.com/ in 2015 plus ongoing DLC.

[The_Prophet_of_Donk]

It reads like someone's novel synopsis. I appreciate the characters are deep.

I just hope we get to know them in a deeper way than from reading their bio on Amazon. It's supposed to be about role-playing. Right now I would have to meta-game because I have no in-game knowledge but enough out-of-game knowledge to "play" them. Role-playing folks will understand.

On one thread I asked for a demonstration of player agency in the game - using the example of role-playing interaction with an NPC. The criticism was that this would spoil the role-playing. My counter argument was that all the hours of video demonstrating combat do not seem to bother (or spoil) that aspect. Now I have a stronger argument, concerning my fear of a lack of player agency and role-playing in the game, with the fact Bioware has released bios of major characters that are spoilers in place of players exploring the NPCs in-game.

If you play rules-light tabletop RPGs, this situation reflects a game where boardgame munchkins write a back story of fan fiction and then engage in hack and slash (patting themselves for being role-players).

This is why I don't read the bios.... I know very little about all of the new characters. I don't delve deep into their past until I meet them in game for the first time. I can't wait to meet Dorian and talk about how the Imperium is the way to go!

[Pen-N-Paper]

 

This is why I don't read the bios.... I know very little about all of the new characters. I don't delve deep into their past until I meet them in game for the first time. I can't wait to meet Dorian and talk about how the Imperium is the way to go!

That puts me in a pickle.

I have no faith in DA brand after #2 (number 2, giggle) but a little hope that the outcry and depressing sales figures for DA2 will have made an impact in the game design (to be more role-playing oriented - more like GotY Origins and less like discontinued #2). So I either walk away or pay close attention so I won't be fooled again on this release.

It would be great if I could depend on DA3 being more like Origins in play tone. Then DA3 could be a complete happy surprise for me, as you wish for yourself. That was my logic with my pre-order of DA2. But DA2 cured me of that.

[R0vena]

 
I
I made the same mistake, as you claim to be doing now, with my purchase of DA2. I had played and enjoyed DA:O. Based upon that experience, I decided to pre-order DA2 and, unlike my experience before I played DA:O, not to expose myself to DA2 spoilers. It took some time for Amazon.com to deliver my order to Poland. By the time it arrived, the maelstrom of disappointment had reached me through online business-related magazines (of all places). At first I did not want to believe it.

Then I saw Kevin’s Togoff’s Let’s Play…. Then my game arrived. We know the story. As a result I am much less trusting and watching much more carefully what is being said and unsaid about this game. I do not want another game bookend to sit on my shelf like DA2.

And if I save the $105 it would cost me to buy this game from Amazon, I can easily afford a role-playing game like http://kingdomcomerpg.com/ in 2015 plus ongoing DLC.

 

I see. I guess, we have different experience, then. I enjoyed DA 2 a lot despite all its flows and have no problems pre-ordering next DA game. But I understand why you are hesitant to do so.

But in my personal case - if I had a similar disappointing experience - I would still not read spoilers, but just wait and buy the game later, at much cheaper price. 

[The_Prophet_of_Donk]

 
That puts me in a pickle.

I have no faith in DA brand after #2 (number 2, giggle) but a little hope that the outcry and depressing sales figures for DA2 will have made an impact in the game design (to be more role-playing oriented - more like GotY Origins and less like discontinued #2). So I either walk away or pay close attention so I won't be fooled again on this release.

It would be great if I could depend on DA3 being more like Origins in play tone. Then DA3 could be a complete happy surprise for me, as you wish for yourself. That was my logic with my pre-order of DA2. But DA2 cured me of that.

I know a lot of ppl had an issue with DA2, but I really didn't see it. I had an amazing time and I'm pretty critical on games. Sure there were issues, but it was rushed and that was most likely due to EA buying Bioware and rushing the production. I thought the choices were amazing, they forced you to decide on what actions you would take on a completely Gray Area. They showed there was no black and white. If you Meta-game, then yeah it wouldn't be as fun. But I RP a story to death. I was Hawke, the deceisions my Hawke made were what I would do in his place.

It was a very different game from DAO and I know that is what a lot of ppl had an issue with. I however play games for the story and options to choose what I do!

I feel that DA3 has the right mixture of DAO, DA2, and even plenty of new elements. Though I can't speak from first hand experience, but it looks amazing and the story sounds fantastic.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That puts me in a pickle.

I have no faith in DA brand after #2 (number 2, giggle) but a little hope that the outcry and depressing sales figures for DA2 will have made an impact in the game design (to be more role-playing oriented - more like GotY Origins and less like discontinued #2). So I either walk away or pay close attention so I won't be fooled again on this release.

It would be great if I could depend on DA3 being more like Origins in play tone. Then DA3 could be a complete happy surprise for me, as you wish for yourself. That was my logic with my pre-order of DA2. But DA2 cured me of that.

BioWare clearly has no interest in marketing the game in a way that would make it look appealing to you (or me). Your only solution is to ignore the marketing material and wait until the game is released so that you can gather the information you need from other sources.

[Declined_Misery]

It's nice they are finally supporting both genders as equal in media. Mass effect 1/2/DA2 barely showed anything of femshep or lady hawke outside of the games.

 

It's also nice that the box art for inquisition has a gender neutral inquisitor on the front. Hard to tell if it's a male or female.

[Gairnulf]

Re what kind of audience Bioware has an interest in marketing the game to, I think you're not taking full account of what kind of audience most of us are, and that we are a minority Back in 2009 I remember I was 100% sold just with the phrase "The spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series". Nowadays, the situation is different

As for the female inquisitor image being included, I'm surprised that's considered such a big deal. It would be expected that a female PC would be available, wouldn't it?

[Pen-N-Paper]

 

But in my personal case - if I had a similar disappointing experience - I would still not read spoilers, but just wait and buy the game later, at much cheaper price.

 Me, I'm thinking I will not buy a game I do not want to play. Been there, done that; more wise. The fact the game company itself cannot speak to my game needs/wants does tell me something I am sad to understand from the franchise that created Dragon Age: Origins. But I am not saying shut up and take my money. That relationship was over with DA2.

it was rushed and that was most likely due to EA buying Bioware and rushing the production.


It was a very different game from DAO and I know that is what a lot of ppl had an issue with. I however play games for the story and options to choose what I do!
I feel that DA3 has the right mixture of DAO, DA2, and even plenty of new elements. Though I can't speak from first hand experience, but it looks amazing and the story sounds fantastic.

It was rushed and that's all we need to say about it from its visually boring repetitive environments & immersion killing exploding bodies to everything and so much more (buyer remorse, brand equity degradation, etc.,) affecting everyone from the stakeholders to the shareholders.) Excusing the "rush" is, for my money, inexcusable and approval given to the avoidance of accountability and responsibility. "You're fired" are three words that come to my mind when faced with such a business situation in an industry as competitive (consumer and labour) as the video game industry.

The closest thing I have to a "you're fired" line as a consumer is to take my money somewhere else. I am a wait and see on this with only the hope I have that DA3 is a game I would enjoy. Nothing yet has shown me it is though. Shame on someone not to communicate what Bioware’s Dragon Age franchise promises, especially since I enjoy RPGs.

At the same time that DA2 was disappointing me for $100, Drakensang: River of Time was a joy. Its graphics are not to the standard of Dragon Age: Origins but the story is deep (like DA2 told in flashback) and the interaction between characters and player agency does make a difference in the game's story development. It was a stunning, but well-earned, slap in the face to Bioware; and a bittersweet experience for me at the time because I had greatly looked forward to DA2 based on the promise of DA:O.

Now this sounds promising – like the type of RPG demo I have been asking for all over this forum:


1:29 – 1:44 Mike Laidlaw

If you’re interested in how the people that keep the inquisition running kind of behind the scenes work; and we’re going to look at the war table, which is going to be pretty rad. We haven’t really shown much of that at all, and we’ll give you a sense of how that all plays out, and how it interacts with your story, and some of the choices you’ve made.

But after watching the first of three videos I have only seen how making my choice of character brings me to a loaded set of racial railroad tracks. So, if I am an Elf, I will get an “Elf game,” which I am thinking is kind of like being the token woman on the board. I have not seen how I role-play my Elf which affects my game (or how I earned the right to be on the eponymous all-male board) just that being an Elf will be something like a set piece (the quota filling lame binary thing).

I will watch the 2nd & 3rd parts hoping to see a demonstration of “a sense of how that all plays out, and how it interacts with your story, and some of the choices you’ve made” hoping the reference is not simply to the point and click war table and the video has moved on to yet more combat.

How sad that would be for a game that claims to call itself an RPG experience: all demos focus on 99.9% combat and 0.1% cutscenes leading to combat. It is like watching a CGI movie, with overdone graphics.

[Pen-N-Paper]

 

But after watching the first of three videos I have only seen how making my choice of character brings me to a loaded set of racial railroad tracks. So, if I am an Elf, I will get an “Elf game,” which I am thinking is kind of like being the token woman on the board. I have not seen how I role-play my Elf which affects my game (or how I earned the right to be on the eponymous all-male board) just that being an Elf will be something like a set piece (the quota filling lame binary thing).

I will watch the 2nd & 3rd parts hoping to see a demonstration of “a sense of how that all plays out, and how it interacts with your story, and some of the choices you’ve made” hoping the reference is not simply to the point and click war table and the video has moved on to yet more combat.

How sad that would be for a game that claims to call itself an RPG experience: all demos focus on 99.9% combat and 0.1% cutscenes leading to combat. It is like watching a CGI movie, with overdone graphics.

And... nothing. Waste of my time.  
They must have been referring to the war table as I had feared.

Sad.

[PrinceLionheart]

Nice nice...but where's Iron Bull?

[Pen-N-Paper]

 

Nice nice...but where's Iron Bull?

I am guessing the marketing communications department, soon on loan to the PR department.

[Shinobu]

Re what kind of audience Bioware has an interest in marketing the game to, I think you're not taking full account of what kind of audience most of us are, and that we are a minority Back in 2009 I remember I was 100% sold just with the phrase "The spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series". Nowadays, the situation is different

As for the female inquisitor image being included, I'm surprised that's considered such a big deal. It would be expected that a female PC would be available, wouldn't it?

 

If one is familiar with Bioware games, then yes. Past marketing didn't make this fact obvious though.

 

Previous thread on the topic.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

People happy about EA marketing, that's a first.

 

I might have cared about cover art, if I had bought a single hardcopy game since 2009.