298 réponses à ce sujet

[Nukekitten]

I don't happen to believe that reality can be understood by, more or less, ignoring a large part of it. On the other hand, you don't want every random idiot going around with a source of power in their hands. Questions, such as why Lyrium gives power and what commonality this shares with blood would need to be investigated before any long-term solution, short of killing them all, could be found.

Similarly it's very hard to defend against something that you have so little understanding of. If we imagine a blood mage with access to national leaders, it's very hard to imagine what could be done to maintain the freedom of said leaders, unless you knew ahead of time that the person was a blood mage and could simply kill them. (Something that, unless they were rather clumsy, you would not.)

Outright bans on blood magic not only, ironically, encourage people towards it because of persecution and the desire, however misguided, to use power to try to ensure their safety/liberty, but make the application of that power vastly more dangerous.

I would be in favour of the study of blood magic, under highly controlled conditions, and the sanctioning of its limited use by approved practitioners. At the moment the approach taken to it seems like the pointlessly and meaninglessly crippling oneself.

Where I've run across it I've, generally, taken an approach that I act based on the person wielding it rather than on the mere fact they're a blood mage. I didn't help Merril because I thought she was utterly naive, and I killed Jowan because he was a selfish idiot. But theoretically there could be blood mages I wouldn't kill

[lil yonce]

First is logic, second is in WoT.

 

Regarding the second, it is flat out stated that the more suffering caused in the spilling of blood the more powerful the spell will be. Hence the reverse must also be true. If no suffering at all was caused, then the blood is barely useful.

 

Regarding the first, just think about it. If animal blood could be used in Blood Magic ritual, jsut exactly why would the Magisters then keep dozens of slaves around, isntead of just cattle? Cattle is easier to maintain, cost less, and aren't morally abhorent to slaughter. Bottom line: If animal blood could be used, then the very idea of using humans as a source of blood would never have been so widespread as it is(/was).

But you can use dragon blood to do blood magic and its more powerful than human blood. And I don't think there is anything that says you can't use animal blood. And there is nothing that says blood isn't useful if there is no suffering accompanying the blood when a spell is cast. In the comics, Titus siphons blood from Maric and uses it later to fight qunari. There was no suffering to accompany the blood when his fire spell was cast, but it was still very powerful.

 

EDIT: Also, it could be other reasons why magisters used human sacrifice and not animal. Their gods may have preferred human sacrifice as tribute, human blood may be better than animal blood, maybe when slaves are plentiful they're cheaper than livestock. It could be other things.

Modifié par lil yonce, 18 octobre 2014 - 04:12 .

[Shiemi]

Depending on your playthrought, you can make that happen. In a realistic or more common (not for the player, but for random people in the DA world) scenario where a mage don´t have the full Circle of Magic on his side Blood Magic would have been the only way to save the life and soul of a child from a demon trying to posses him yes, you have put a good example there.

 

yes bro. Perhaps the blood mages have the same personality of a common mage: When they feel afraid, they use magic to defend yourself. The difference is that the blood magic looks be more aggressive hahah

[EmperorSahlertz]

But you can use dragon blood to do blood magic and its more powerful than human blood. And I don't think there is anything that says you can't use animal blood. And there is nothing that says blood isn't useful if there is no suffering accompanying the blood when a spell is cast. In the comics, Titus siphons blood from Maric and uses it later to fight qunari. There was no suffering to accompany the blood when his fire spell was cast, but it was still very powerful.

 

EDIT: Also, it could be other reasons why magisters used human sacrifice and not animal. Their gods may have preferred human sacrifice as tribute, human blood may be better than animal blood, maybe when slaves are plentiful they're cheaper than livestock. It could be other things.

Marric was (probably) in a state of perpetual agony. Dragon blood is by its very nature magical, hence its uses. Rubber bullets are useful, they aren't as lethal as actual bullets though.

 

If their gods demanded human sacrifice, we would have heard about it by now. They didn't. If animal blood is as effective as human blood, then there is no feasible, let alone reasonable reason for Tevitner to ever use EXCLUSIVELY human sacrifice for their blood ritual. There are a grand total of ZERO historical accounts of animals being used in blood rituals. That alone is evidence that animals can't be used.

[Keroko]

Marric was (probably) in a state of perpetual agony. Dragon blood is by its very nature magical, hence its uses. Rubber bullets are useful, they aren't as lethal as actual bullets though.
 
If their gods demanded human sacrifice, we would have heard about it by now. They didn't. If animal blood is as effective as human blood, then there is no feasible, let alone reasonable reason for Tevitner to ever use EXCLUSIVELY human sacrifice for their blood ritual. There are a grand total of ZERO historical accounts of animals being used in blood rituals. That alone is evidence that animals can't be used.

No, it's evidence that Tevinter doesn't use animals for their sacrifices, but there is zero reason why it couldn't work. Blood magic uses life force to power magic. Animals have life force. And most importantly, blood magic in the games affects animals just as it would humans.

Actual evidence towards blood magic working with everything that has blood outnumbers the theoretical evidence it doesn't.

[EmperorSahlertz]

No, it's evidence that Tevinter doesn't use animals for their sacrifices, but there is zero reason why it couldn't work. Blood magic uses life force to power magic. Animals have life force. And most importantly, blood magic in the games affects animals just as it would humans.

Actual evidence towards blood magic working with everything that has blood outnumbers the theoretical evidence it doesn't.

The Blood Magic you use in the game is NOT powered by the people (or animals) that you cast it on. It is powered by the player's own blood and injury, hence your point is invalid. Obviously you can cause an animal's blood to boil, but the blood of the animal cannot be used to power the spell. The reason that undead can't be affected by blood boil, isn't that they are undead, but that they literally have no blood that you can boil.

 

So yes, the fact that there are no historical records of animals being used in blood sarifice IS evidence of it simply not being possible. Otherwise there would, in the span of several thousand years, have been at least ONE case of it happening and being recorded.

[Keroko]

The Blood Magic you use in the game is NOT powered by the people (or animals) that you cast it on. It is powered by the player's own blood and injury, hence your point is invalid. Obviously you can cause an animal's blood to boil, but the blood of the animal cannot be used to power the spell. The reason that undead can't be affected by blood boil, isn't that they are undead, but that they literally have no blood that you can boil.
 
So yes, the fact that there are no historical records of animals being used in blood sarifice IS evidence of it simply not being possible. Otherwise there would, in the span of several thousand years, have been at least ONE case of it happening and being recorded.

Why would it be recorded? It's not interesting for the Chantry to do so, as they want to make blood mages look as evil as possible, and it's not interesting for the Tevinter to do so because they have slaves for the task, which makes them look superior. In fact, if anything, it not being possible would have been far more likely to be recorded. The Chantry would drool while writing the proclamation that blood magic is so inherently evil because it must use human sacrifices.

And speaking of which, you have yet to explain why animal blood wouldn't work. They are alive, they have blood. They fulfil all known qualifications to be used.

[Treacherous J Slither]

@Keroko:

 

Keep fighting the good fight! You're doing great!

[Icy Magebane]

You know, another thing that I don't understand about this argument that blood magic might have hidden benefits is that if such benefits existed, why haven't the Tevinters discovered them yet?  I mean, they only regulate blood magic among the general population in order to appease the Orlesian Chantry, but almost all of the Magisters study and practice blood magic in order to stay ahead of their rivals.  But even though they all have access to the blood of vast numbers of slaves, they don't seem to have come up with anything particularly beneficial in several centuries... I mean, isn't that enough time to have figured out some of these benefits...?  They are free to study whatever they want, and the Magister Lords aren't stupid... I'm sure they spend a lot of time experimenting with blood magic to figure out the limits and possibilities, so why haven't they come up with anything positive yet?

[raging_monkey]

You know, another thing that I don't understand about this argument that blood magic might have hidden benefits is that if such benefits existed, why haven't the Tevinters discovered them yet?  I mean, they only regulate blood magic among the general population in order to appease the Orlesian Chantry, but almost all of the Magisters study and practice blood magic in order to stay ahead of their rivals.  But even though they all have access to the blood of vast numbers of slaves, they don't seem to have come up with anything particularly beneficial in several centuries... I mean, isn't that enough time to have figured out some of these benefits...?  They are free to study whatever they want, and the Magister Lords aren't stupid... I'm sure they spend a lot of time experimenting with blood magic to figure out the limits and possibilities, so why haven't they come up with anything positive yet?

the IDW comic had a BM healer that could regenerate limbs to my knowledge. And tbh idk if bioware would disclose the "good parts" cause they need a evil lore school just my opinion

[Icy Magebane]

the IDW comic had a BM healer that could regenerate limbs to my knowledge. And tbh idk if bioware would disclose the "good parts" cause they need a evil lore school just my opinion

So Bioware is lying about their own lore in order to promote a false negative image of blood magic... ok....

[raging_monkey]

So Bioware is lying about their own lore in order to promote a false negative image of blood magic... ok....

for now all i am saying is that while we debate/disscuss BW could be cleaning up lore about it and just for the next 4weeks are calling it evil but by inquisition we could have a very well articulated report on the subject. (Personally this is what im hoping for

[Icy Magebane]

for now all i am saying is that while we debate/disscuss BW could be cleaning up lore about it and just for the next 4weeks are calling it evil but by inquisition we could have a very well articulated report on the subject. (Personally this is what im hoping for

Well, I won't rule out the possibility of them adding to or changing the lore... as it stands, the evidence seems to favor blood magic not really being all that useful for anything that isn't destructive.

 

But you are right... in 4 weeks Dorian might show up and tell us that Tevinter is actually a paradise but he had to leave due to a gambling debt.  Once he collects enough Inquisition paychecks, back to Tevinter he goes, although he may be talked into staying depending on whether or not the Inquisitor romances him...

[raging_monkey]

Well, I won't rule out the possibility of them adding to or changing the lore... as it stands, the evidence seems to favor blood magic not really being all that useful for anything that isn't destructive.
 
But you are right... in 4 weeks Dorian might show up and tell us that Tevinter is actually a paradise but he had to leave due to a gambling debt.  Once he collects enough Inquisition paychecks, back to Tevinter he goes, although he may be talked into staying depending on whether or not the Inquisitor romances him...

i would pay to see that... wait i am lol

OT: as BM supporter i will not sugar-coat it that the peaceful apps for it are low compared to it offensive powers. My only guess as to who have a full mastery of the field would have to be tevinters and demons. Ill always advocate its study (under strict and i mean strict regulations)

[Pablo Cavalieri]

My mage is King Diamond, love blood magic because he is the evil one muahaha!!!   XD

[In Exile]

You know, another thing that I don't understand about this argument that blood magic might have hidden benefits is that if such benefits existed, why haven't the Tevinters discovered them yet?  I mean, they only regulate blood magic among the general population in order to appease the Orlesian Chantry, but almost all of the Magisters study and practice blood magic in order to stay ahead of their rivals.  But even though they all have access to the blood of vast numbers of slaves, they don't seem to have come up with anything particularly beneficial in several centuries... I mean, isn't that enough time to have figured out some of these benefits...?  They are free to study whatever they want, and the Magister Lords aren't stupid... I'm sure they spend a lot of time experimenting with blood magic to figure out the limits and possibilities, so why haven't they come up with anything positive yet?

 

We've never seen a powerful tevinter BM really apply BM for much of anything. The closest we got was that DA:O mage in the Alienage who could use others to fortify your health. Setting aside how gameplay wise the bonus was ****, that's a pretty unqiue use. We also know that Avernus developed a way (or knew of a way) to quintuple his life even with the taint, so all of this is to say that there's a lot to it we don't know. 

[raging_monkey]

We've never seen a powerful tevinter BM really apply BM for much of anything. The closest we got was that DA:O mage in the Alienage who could use others to fortify your health. Setting aside how gameplay wise the bonus was ****, that's a pretty unqiue use. We also know that Avernus developed a way (or knew of a way) to quintuple his life even with the taint, so all of this is to say that there's a lot to it we don't know.

its implied that avernus used taint magic as well so its hard to grasp which was more used

[In Exile]

its implied that avernus used taint magic as well so its hard to grasp which was more used

 

Taint magic is blood magic. It's called "the power of blood". 

[raging_monkey]

Taint magic is blood magic. It's called "the power of blood".

really i thought they were just similar but not exactly the same

[Killdren88]

My body, I'll what I want. I'll be damned before I let any organization tell me what to do. Especially a religious one.

[raging_monkey]

My body, I'll what I want. I'll be damned before I let any organization tell me what to do. Especially a religious one.

so your in favor? Lol

[Killdren88]

so your in favor? Lol

 

Yes in favor. Of Blood Magic use.

[dragonflight288]

really i thought they were just similar but not exactly the same

 

He uses blood magic to extend his own life, and his research into the tainted blood of Wardens gives wardens more power, and it allowed him to better combat the demons because the darkspawn taint was alien to them. 

 

He used the taint in the Warden's blood, but it was still tainted blood. I guess it would qualify as "specialized blood magic" that only works with Warden Blood. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Why would it be recorded? It's not interesting for the Chantry to do so, as they want to make blood mages look as evil as possible, and it's not interesting for the Tevinter to do so because they have slaves for the task, which makes them look superior. In fact, if anything, it not being possible would have been far more likely to be recorded. The Chantry would drool while writing the proclamation that blood magic is so inherently evil because it must use human sacrifices.

And speaking of which, you have yet to explain why animal blood wouldn't work. They are alive, they have blood. They fulfil all known qualifications to be used.

Because that is how historical records work? You'd be surprised what some of our best actual historical records are in the real world (Hint: It isn't actually recounts about large events).

 

Why animal blood wouldn't work? Probably because they don't have a connection to the Fade. There is no "magical-link".

[dragonflight288]

Because that is how historical records work? You'd be surprised what some of our best actual historical records are in the real world (Hint: It isn't actually recounts about large events).

 

Why animal blood wouldn't work? Probably because they don't have a connection to the Fade. There is no "magical-link".

 

Blood magic doesn't have a link to the Fade, it says so in its own codex. And that's why it gives templars a hard time, because it draws power in the physical, not the ephemeral. It has been confirmed that it is strengthened by pain and suffering, but still draws power from the blood and life force itself. 

 

And, how do you know that animals aren't connected to the Fade? All things that dream go there there nightly, save the dwarves.