298 réponses à ce sujet

[10K]

Where did you get that blood magic thrives on pain and violence? So far all lore says it is empowered by life force, which is not the same thing. Yes, blood magic allows demons to enter through the fade. So does necromancy (as undead are corpses possessed by demons). And yet, necromancy is allowed, which means that merely opening the fade to demons isn't beyond what a good mage is capable of handling, nor what the Chantry forbids.

 

The only reason blood magic is considered a last resort in Thedas is because it is outlawed. What it really is is a powerful form of magic that could be of great benefit to the people of Thedas, providing proper rules on its learning and use are laid down. Hell, even the Chantry itself does this. Phylacteries are blood magic, after all.

 

Really, we're falling back to the same thing here: The only difference is that blood magic allows the use life force rather than mana. But that in and of itself is not inherently more evil. Like any other form of magic, is depends on how it is used.

 

Spells and powers: paragraph one, last sentence.

 It should be noted that the more violent the pain or death used in blood magic, the more powerful a spell becomes.^[13]

Stronger spells require more pain or death.

 

The reason why blood magic is outlawed is because of the magisters of the tevinter imperium and their blood ritual that turned the golden city black, and it was they who instilled  the fear of mages into Thedas. Necromancers summon spirits not demons to dead corpses, there's a difference between spirits and demons. Yes blood magic is powerful, but it's power comes with a price, which is why blood mages resort to sacrifices after all. There is no need for blood magic, if both blood magic and demon summoning were eradicated there would be no need for phylacteries because there would be no fear of mages becoming maleficarum. Fear of Maleficarum is the primary reason the circles exist. 

[TK514]

Where did you get that blood magic thrives on pain and violence? So far all lore says it is empowered by life force, which is not the same thing.

 

It is stated explicitly in World of Thedas that Blood Magic is powered by pain and death.  The more painful and torturous the death, the more powerful the blood magic.

[raging_monkey]

In fairness gaider said theres no fyndamental diff between spirits/demons. And the tale of magisters using BM is a white chantry story used in the schism. And cory is debatable due to his mental state(personally belive cory somewhat).

Food for thought

[CronoDragoon]

For it. As Calien says in Last Flight, the true danger of blood magic is that we don't understand how it works. Well, the only way to come to such an understanding is research, which is partially why I encouraged Avernus' research.

[Incantrix]

Fully agree with Mose. Blood magic has completely destroyed what could have originally been a peaceful and free life for Mages. 

 

And it sucks that so many mages resort to it in times of great struggle. That's why my mages are above and against blood magic.  It's the very kind of magic that has denied them a normal life. 

[raging_monkey]

Fully agree with Mose. Blood magic has completely destroyed what could have originally been a peaceful and free life for Mages. 
 
And it sucks that so many mages resort to it in times of great struggle.

if you can have a edge over others why not use it. Its the human condition we seek advantage over others... benign or not

Food for thought

[10K]

Fully agree with Mose. Blood magic has completely destroyed what could have originally been a peaceful and free life for Mages. 

 

And it sucks that so many mages resort to it in times of great struggle. That's why my mages are above and against blood magic.  It's the very kind of magic that has denied them a normal life. 

And that's why I'm against blood magic, because I'm against the circles. It's because of the fear of maleficarum circles exist. Therefore all blood mages must die in my opinion

[Helios969]

Me personally? I think it's the worst story concept in DA. I also think it's wholly reprehensible and I'd feel perfectly fine telling that to anyone who practiced it.

My Warden Warrior? Magic and mages are tools to my Warden's climb to fame and power. If they prove to be obstacles - dead time.

My Hawke Mage? Distasteful and the practice of mages who can't do real magic well enough and have to dabble in trash magic.

My Inquisitor Mage? Blood Mages have two choices - Tranquility or Death. You weren't born with Blood Magic - you sought it out. Knowing it, is premeditated. However - the study of blood magic is permissible to a small group of heavily guarded mages.

Here, here. I'll second that.

[LaughingWolf]

Blood magic is a tool; it can be used for evil, or good. Its the person that matters. The Warden and The Champion can both be blood mages, Merrill and Jowan are blood mages; none of them are evil (Jowan and Merrill are arguably misguided) but The Warden and The Champion can use blood magic and not be evil.

Blood magic is not inherently evil, its just most (but not all) people are.

[CronoDragoon]

And that's why I'm against blood magic, because I'm against the circles. It's because of the fear of maleficarum circles exist. Therefore all blood mages must die in my opinion

 

But the use of blood magic and the possibility of it are different concepts. You are talking about actual blood mages, but the possibility of blood magic being used by any mage means that the fear that spawned the Circles will always exist, even if not a single mage actually uses it.

 

Given that blood magic as a possibility is not going away, I'd rather test it extensively through humane means, like Avernus is doing.

[Loyal Tevinter]

I'm for it, it's a tool like any other school of magic. It's up to the mage how it's used.

[Hazegurl]

I think BM is a useful form of magic that has many benefits. The problem with BM is that most of it's practitioners are either brain dead, weak, or power hungry.  It's like owning a gun. Some people are smart and understand gun safety but the vast majority are morons who end up with a dead kid on the news.  Considering the fact that a BM user can end up with a lot more than one dead relative if the simplest mistake occurs, I am against it unless highly regulated. Most BM users should just be killed.

[LightningPoodle]

I'm for the use of blood magic. It's just like any other magic which, until the Chantry was formed, was perfectly acceptable amongst those knowledgeable in magic. It's like anything though for example, curses in Harry Potter universe. Those were fine until some dick decided to use it to torture and brutally murder some poor muggle (probably). Or in real life, speeding. It was probably fine to max out the engine when cars were first being produced but some dick had to hit someone and that person (probably) died. The point is, if you do it and don't get caught, it's perfectly acceptable.

 

- That last bit is my attempt at humour. Look kids, speeding is not fine. Do it and I'll run you down with my steamroller.

[10K]

But the use of blood magic and the possibility of it are different concepts. You are talking about actual blood mages, but the possibility of blood magic being used by any mage means that the fear that spawned the Circles will always exist, even if not a single mage actually uses it.

That fear was spawned by maleficarium in the first place, the circles only exist because of them. Circles will always exist now because of the fear instilled by maleficarum. But for every maleficarium killed I believe it's another step towards trust. Hell if mages began to help kill maleficars also both templars and mages could work together against a common enemy. There we go right there, it would eliminate all hostility. 

[CronoDragoon]

That fear was spawned by maleficarium in the first place, the circles only exist because of them. Circles will always exist now because of the fear instilled by maleficarum. But for every maleficarium killed I believe it's another step towards trust. Hell if mages began to help kill maleficars also both templars and mages could work together against a common enemy. There we go right there, it would eliminate all hostility. 

 

I doubt it, because any templar that believes maleficarum need to be killed also believes potential maleficarum (all mages) need to be monitored. They would consider letting mages handle maleficarum as letting the inmates run the prison. But besides all that, I have issues with killing people who have potentially done nothing wrong as an olive branch to your current enemy.

[RobRam10]

Blood is power. The universe rewards those who are willing to spill their life's blood for the promise of power.

[raging_monkey]

Blood is power. The universe rewards those who are willing to spill their life's blood for the promise of power.

only if it your own but if its others i disagree brother

[Keroko]

Spells and powers: paragraph one, last sentence.

 It should be noted that the more violent the pain or death used in blood magic, the more powerful a spell becomes.^[13]

Stronger spells require more pain or death.

 

The reason why blood magic is outlawed is because of the magisters of the tevinter imperium and their blood ritual that turned the golden city black, and it was they who instilled  the fear of mages into Thedas. Necromancers summon spirits not demons to dead corpses, there's a difference between spirits and demons. Yes blood magic is powerful, but it's power comes with a price, which is why blood mages resort to sacrifices after all. There is no need for blood magic, if both blood magic and demon summoning were eradicated there would be no need for phylacteries because there would be no fear of mages becoming maleficarum. Fear of Maleficarum is the primary reason the circles exist. 

 

It is stated explicitly in World of Thedas that Blood Magic is powered by pain and death.  The more painful and torturous the death, the more powerful the blood magic.

 

I stand corrected, and that is indeed a huge strike against the positives of blood magic.

 

However, I still maintain that we shouldn't toss out the baby with the bathwater just because the water is dirty. There is much good to be found in blood magic, as it is also known for being tremendously powerful at healing. And it needn't come at the cost of lives. We have blood donations in our world, a similar system could be set up in Thedas. The phylacteries of the circles (which, again, are also blood magic) show that preservation is possible. This could mean the survival of untold lives who would die otherwise.

 

And mages would still be feared, blood magic or no. Blood magic is not needed for a mage to turn into an abomination. Blood magic isn't needed for a mage with selfish desires to obliterate an entire town. Blood magic isn't needed for a necromancer to plunder a graveyard and send its occupants against the innocent.

 

The fear of magic runs deeper than blood magic. It is the fear of the unknown, the fear of people possessing powers others do not, cannot, understand. That fear can't be eradicated just by removing a particularly grim aspect of it.

[10K]

I doubt it, because any templar that believes maleficarum need to be killed also believes potential maleficarum (all mages) need to be monitored. They would consider letting mages handle maleficarum as letting the inmates run the prison. But besides all that, I have issues with killing people who have potentially done nothing wrong as an olive branch to your current enemy.

And this is why opinions are like belly buttons (everyone has one). You see blood mages as people who have done nothing. While I see them as people who have a need for power. Rather that need is for protecting themselves or otherwise it does not matter. It's still a need nonetheless. Blood magic is only sought out for power, and my mind will not change on this. And sure there are close minds on both templar and mage sides, but if a system is put into place where each party helps in riding Thedas of maleficarum I truly believe trust could be achieved.  

[CronoDragoon]

And this is why opinions are like belly buttons (everyone has one). You see blood mages as people who have done nothing. While I see them as people who have a need for power. Rather that need is for protecting themselves or otherwise it does not matter. It's still a need nonetheless. Blood magic is only sought out for power, and my mind will not change on this. And sure there are close minds on both templar and mage sides, but if a system is put into place where each party helps in riding Thedas of maleficarum I truly believe trust could be achieved.  

 

But seeking power is not inherently bad or unjustified. Are we going to damn everyone who takes karate lessons?

[Icy Magebane]

And that's why I'm against blood magic, because I'm against the circles. It's because of the fear of maleficarum circles exist. Therefore all blood mages must die in my opinion

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I would argue that the Circles exist primarily to prevent abominations from appearing in heavily populated areas.  It would be difficult to justify locking mages up simply because they might use their powers for evil were it not for the added possibility of demonic possession... of course, blood magic tends to increase this risk, so that's just one more reason it should be avoided.

[10K]

But seeking power is not inherently bad or unjustified. Are we going to damn everyone who takes karate lessons?

Karate lessons don't require blood, pain, or death to achieve power. Plus karate is sought after for self-defense. But even then if you tell your instructor this is the main reason karate appeals to you, they'll tell you that isn't Karate's prime purpose. Karate is more about one's self of discipline and respect, not just self-defense. you can't compare the two  

[EmperorSahlertz]

if you can have a edge over others why not use it. Its the human condition we seek advantage over others... benign or not

Food for thought

No we don't. Only sychophants have such a drive, to constantly attempt to be "better" than everyone else. Most human beings are perfectly fine just handling themselves and leaving the rest of the world to handle itself.

 

If everyone in the world constantly attempted to assert dominance, there wouldn't even have been established a foundation of culture to begin with.

[EmperorSahlertz]

But seeking power is not inherently bad or unjustified. Are we going to damn everyone who takes karate lessons?

I don't see karate dominating minds of lords and kings...

[10K]

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I would argue that the Circles exist primarily to prevent abominations from appearing in heavily populated areas.  It would be difficult to justify locking mages up simply because they might use their powers for evil were it not for the added possibility of demonic possession... of course, blood magic tends to increase this risk, so that's just one more reason it should be avoided.

And that's why I use the term Maleficarum, it doesn't refer to only blood mages. It also refers to mages that have become abominations. That's why I believe if both mages and templars seek out maleficarum this distrust they have with one another can be ended.