298 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

And that's why I use the term Maleficarum, it doesn't refer to only blood mages. It also refers to mages that have become abominations. That's why I believe if both mages and templars seek out maleficarum this distrust they have with one another can be ended.

I thought maleficarum were just mages who used their powers against the commandments of the Chantry and Maker?  I've always seen that as a separate problem from abominations.  A weak mage can become an abomination after all... they don't necessarily have to be evil to succumb to a demon's will.

[In Exile]

This logic seems flawed to me. Primal magic is used to kill people almost 100% of the time, yet nobody even bats an eye at its use. Entropy also manipulates the minds of others, yet is an accepted practice. Hell, even necromancy is found in the Chantry-approved spirit tree.

Blood magic is inherently little different from these other magics. All that is different is that they can use blood to substitute for massive quantities of lyrium. Yes, it is often learned from demons, true, but it is not the only way to learn blood magic. There are many practitioners who have left behind writings of the art. Should these writings be made official -albeit restricted-, no demon ever needs to be involved in the learning of blood magic ever again.

It's not about killing. And it's not even about the means of using it, which are generally immoral, OE the typical character of those who use it. Rather it is about the mind control - and actual mind rape - properties of blood magic.

[Br3admax]

Yeah, you don't have to be Maleficarum to become an abomination. And the common people will never trust mages, for that matter. It's never going to be a thing, and honestly, who could blame them. 

[10K]

I thought maleficarum were just mages who used their powers against the commandments of the Chantry and Maker?  I've always seen that as a separate problem from abominations.  A weak mage can become an abomination after all... they don't necessarily have to be evil to succumb to a demon's will.

Yeah I think you are right, maybe I should start saying both maleficarum and abominations. Oh well, they all should die

[Statare]

It's not about killing. And it's not even about the means of using it, which are generally immoral, OE the typical character of those who use it. Rather it is about the mind control - and actual mind rape - properties of blood magic.

 

Arguably, aspects of entropy (horror, nightmare induction, sleep, etc.) are similarly mind manipulative. Sure, you aren't forcing them to kill people, but you are literally forcing them to go through horrific phantasms which seem real, hence their power.

[Icy Magebane]

Yeah I think you are right, maybe I should start saying both maleficarum and abominations. Oh well, they all should die

Now that, I won't argue with... xD

[Kalas Magnus]

i support blood magic.

 

they should make it stronger in gameplay though.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I thought maleficarum were just mages who used their powers against the commandments of the Chantry and Maker?  I've always seen that as a separate problem from abominations.  A weak mage can become an abomination after all... they don't necessarily have to be evil to succumb to a demon's will.

Maleficarum is a type of mage that use forbidden magic, including but not limited to Blood Magic. Abominations are not considered part of that category, but rather one of their own. Apostates are not always Maleficarum either, but few people bother to verify, since any mage, even of the standard variety, is a danger to be reckoned with.

[CronoDragoon]

Karate lessons don't require blood, pain, or death to achieve power. Plus karate is sought after for self-defense. But even then if you tell your instructor this is the main reason karate appeals to you, they'll tell you that isn't Karate's prime purpose. Karate is more about one's self of discipline and respect, not just self-defense. you can't compare the two  

 

Blood magic doesn't require death, either, nor does it require anyone's blood and pain but your own. And one can indeed practice blood magic as self-defense.

 

It's nice that an instructor would think that, and it may be true for them.

[Icy Magebane]

Maleficarum is a type of mage that use forbidden magic, including but not limited to Blood Magic. Abominations are not considered part of that category, but rather one of their own. Apostates are not always Maleficarum either, but few people bother to verify, since any mage, even of the standard variety, is a danger to be reckoned with.

Exactly so.  I think the distinction is important to make because grouping them all together tends to diminish the severity and complexity of the many issues that contribute to the Chantry's policy on magic and mages.  If we keep in mind that there are three separate but inter-connected types of problematic mages, then the threat is more obvious than if we think of only one type.  By referring only on maleficarum, for example, it is easy argue that magic is a tool and that not everyone who wields it will attempt to harm others, but this ignores the fact that all mages are at risk of becoming abominations, regardless of their morality.

[10K]

Blood magic doesn't require death, either, nor does it require anyone's blood but your own. And one can indeed practice blood magic as self-defense.

 

It's nice that an instructor would think that.

As I said before Pain and death dictates how viable blood magic spells are. Anyone whom seeks after blood magic wants more power, that's why blood magic is much powerful than conventional magic because of the price you most pay. In order to have powerful spells you need more blood, you need victims and their pain to supply the magic's true power. That's why most blood mages resort to sacrifices. One is not seeking out blood magic for sub-par magic, because in that case they could use the magic they already have to be used for self-defense and other means. One seeks out blood magic because of it's power, and to acquire blood magic's true power one needs more blood. Which ultimately leads to having victims. This has already been discussed. 

[CronoDragoon]

As I said before Pain and death dictates how viable blood magic spells are. Anyone whom seeks after blood magic wants more power, that's why blood magic is much powerful than conventional magic because of the price you most pay. In order to have powerful spells you need more blood, you need victims and their pain to supply the magic's true power. That's why most blood mages resort to sacrifices. One is not seeking out blood magic for sub-par magic, because in that case they could use the magic they already have to be used for self-defense and other means. One seeks out blood magic because of it's power, and to acquire blood magic's true power one needs more blood. Which ultimately leads to having victims. This has already been discussed. 

 

Oh I see. Where were the victims Merrill sacrificed?

[Icy Magebane]

Oh I see. Where were the victims Merrill sacrificed?

Merrill's spells weren't particularly powerful, were they?  She was primarily using blood magic in an attempt to fix the Eluvian...

[heretica]

There is this weird dialectic when it comes to blood magic. They will hate on blood magic and its users but at the same time it's perfectly fine for the player character to be a blood mage since no one really cares. That could use some fixing. 

 

As for my opinion, I like Merrill's approach to blood magic. Can't help to think she's being too naive about demons sometimes, tho. Let's say it's "politically correct" to be against blood magic. 

[Icy Magebane]

There is this weird dialectic when it comes to blood magic. They will hate on blood magic and its users but at the same time it's perfectly fine for the player character to be a blood mage since no one really cares. That could use some fixing. 

 

As for my opinion, I like Merrill's approach to blood magic. Can't help to think she's being too naive about demons sometimes, tho. Let's say it's "politically correct" to be against blood magic. 

I'm pretty sure this is why it's no longer a player spec... hopefully they will do it justice in DA:I because so far the disconnect between lore, NPC, and player/party-member blood magic has been jarring to say the least.

[Althix]

for!

 

let this party started.

[MouseHopper]

I'm not exactly for blood magic.  However, I would not suggest killing all blood mages either.  They need to monitor their usage carefully and perhaps study how it might be controlled.

[10K]

Oh I see. Where were the victims Merrill sacrificed?

Wrath of the elvhen, combined with Arlathen's grace. This is from her skill tree that utilizes blood magic. She uses the damage that has been inflicted by her foes to heal herself. Look at wounds of the past also. She sacrifices enemies for her own gain, sure they're enemies but they are required to power her spells.

 

Besides the only reason merrill has blood magic in the first place is to cleanse the mirrior. 

[CronoDragoon]

Merrill's spells weren't particularly powerful, were they?  She was primarily using blood magic in an attempt to fix the Eluvian...

 

 

Wrath of the elvhen, combined with Arlathen's grace. This is from her skill tree that utilizes blood magic. She uses the damage that has been inflicted by her foes to heal herself. Look at wounds of the past also. She sacrifices enemies for her own gain, sure they're enemies but they are required to power her spells.

 

Besides the only reason merrill has blood magic in the first place is to cleanse the mirrior. 

 

So what you are saying is that blood magic isn't merely about the power of your spells, but rather they can also enable you to perform unique acts?

 

And using it against enemies is a moot point. Armed combatants coming to kill you aren't victims and falls more into the self-defense we talked about.

[10K]

So what you are saying is that blood magic isn't merely about the power of your spells, but rather they can also enable you to perform unique acts?

No, I'm saying those unique acts need life blood to be applicable. She had victims, that was my point. You asked where were they, and I told you.

[Icy Magebane]

So what you are saying is that blood magic isn't merely about the power of your spells, but rather they can also enable you to perform unique acts?

 

And using it against enemies is a moot point. Armed combatants coming to kill you aren't victims and falls more into the self-defense we talked about.

Blood magic has two meanings.  First, it is a method of using blood as a power source to augment mana, fulfilling the same role as lyrium but with greater potency (the extent of this has not been explained in detail thus far).  Second, it is a means of casting unique spells that typically relate to the control of blood, mental domination, restoring the health of the caster by draining the life of another, sundering the Veil, and summoning demons.

 

According to her explanation Merrill was using blood magic in an attempt to purify the Eluvian because she did not have the "piles of lyrium" needed for her rituals... She needed more power than she could summon naturally, thus she needed to learn blood magic.  She did not require living sacrifices because her own blood provided enough power to serve her purposes....

 

As for harming others in combat by draining them, I'm not really arguing that point...  I think that "living sacrifices" for blood magic rituals is typically mentioned in reference to Tevinters sacrificing slaves to summon demons or enter the Fade.  My original point was that Merrill wasn't involved in anything like this, so her magic would not have required blood sacrifices....

[sandalisthemaker]

Blood magic is far too dangerous and difficult to fully understand, and casting sufficiently useful spells requires an ever increasing amount of suffering and death.  When someone with good intentions unwittingly created a virus as a side effect of using blood magic, you know that it is not to be toyed with.

[10K]

Well I'm about to go to sleep. Icy Magebane I leave this debate in your hands 

[Icy Magebane]

Well I'm about to go to sleep. Icy Magebane I leave this debate in your hands 

heh... we'll see how long I last.  I only showed up to point out the difference between maleficarum and abominations...