Cassandra probably doesn't shave, I'm thinking.
If you mean legs and underarms women started only shave them early 20th century (cause companies who sold razors to men wanted to sell more razors and they started to campaign that women should shave too). So realistically women in DA shouldn't shave at all. Of cource since the game is done in viewpoint of modern days people most likely we won't see women in games having body hair..
To be honest, I don't think Bioware has gotten it right in any game. ME 1 was the closest, but they only showed female partial nudity. ME2 and DA 2 were just silly and chaste feeling to me. No nudity, fade-to-black, and then a fully clothed discussion afterwards. Yawn. DA: O was also silly because of the underwear. It wasn't bad on it's own, to be honest, but Morrigan really killed for me. ME 3 had a few that weren't bad, but also had some real stinkers from what I hear, so it's a mixed bag.
I'd be happy with either the ME 1 approach with both males and females getting the partial nudity OR with tastefully done full nudity for both males and females. I don't see the need to hide nudity away. I don't need it to be graphic. And I certainly want to see both genders represented.
Totally agreed. There does seem to be a trend in this thread where people are praising the Witcher as having "done it right", though. Some of these people are using the "nudity makes it mature" argument and then reverting to a "but no boy parts" stance that is most definitely not mature.
The Witcher and The Witcher 2 didn't have genitalia from either gender in it. The problem is one of biology. It's much easier to creatively conceal female genitalia in a scene than male genitalia and still make it look natural. Take the bath scene in The Witcher 2 for example. Triss was completely naked, but there was nothing showing between the legs. With Geralt, they got around concealing his junk by having his pants remain on. I don't for a second think it was because they were bigots. I think they understand that actually showing genitalia would be crossing a line for too many people, so the best they can do is show the chest and derriere.
It's not CDPR's fault that we view female and male breasts differently! lol
As for your accusation of people thinking "nudity makes it mature", I'd argue that the other side is just as guilty by saying "nudity makes it immature". The proper way to look at it is in context. Nudity can be either mature or immature in the right or wrong setting.
If you mean legs and underarms women started only shave them early 20th century (cause companies who sold razors to men wanted to sell more razors and they started to campaign that women should shave too). So realistically women in DA shouldn't shave at all. Of cource since the game is done in viewpoint of modern days people most likely we won't see women in games having body hair..
I bet elves don't even have body hair but Cassandra's butt probably looks like a dwarf's.
I bet elves don't even have body hair but Cassandra's butt probably looks like a dwarf's.
*gasp*
Cassandras butt can crack walnuts I'd wager.
The Witcher and The Witcher 2 didn't have genitalia from either gender in it. The problem is one of biology. It's much easier to creatively conceal female genitalia in a scene than male genitalia and still make it look natural. Take the bath scene in The Witcher 2 for example. Triss was completely naked, but there was nothing showing between the legs. With Geralt, they got around concealing his junk by having his pants remain on. I don't for a second think it was because they were bigots. I think they understand that actually showing genitalia would be crossing a line for too many people, so the best they can do is show the chest and derriere.
It's no CDPR's fault that we view female and male breasts differently! lol
As for your accusation of people thinking "nudity makes it mature", I'd argue that the other side is just as guilty by saying "nudity makes it immature". The proper way to look at it is in context. Nudity can be either mature or immature in the right or wrong setting.
Well, just to clarify, I am not calling them bigots. And, to your last point, I made that exact same point as well. I think both sides are incorrect.
To your point about "genitalia and our views on nudity": Yes, female genitalia is internal and male is external. However, societal views on lower frontal nudity is similar for both males and females. So I see a fully nude woman (pubic hair visible) and a fully nude man (penis visible) to be comparable. Not the same, but comparable.
If CDPR wanted to have comparable nudity and not show any genitals, they could have shown Geralt naked (including pubic hair but no penis) since that's essentially what they showed with Triss. But instead, they kept his pants on. they didn't even show him rear from behind. If they wanted to be comparable and keep his pants one, then they would have kept her pants on too.
*gasp*
Cassandras butt can crack walnuts I'd wager.
Definitely a no-go zone.
Definitely a no-go zone.
Fortune favours the bold my friend.
If the external female parts (breasts) are shown, I see no reason why the external male parts (penis) should not also be shown.
If we want equality, let's start with some non-social standard.
I don't care what gets shown because I'm not offended by any human body but these are hardly equivalent. Female t!tties are the same as male. Socially, sexual connotations are applied to the bulges in female chests but it's pretty absurd to define them as external sexual organs in terms of functionality. Lady boobs should not be taboo. This world is crazy.
The Witcher and The Witcher 2 didn't have genitalia from either gender in it. The problem is one of biology. It's much easier to creatively conceal female genitalia in a scene than male genitalia and still make it look natural. Take the bath scene in The Witcher 2 for example. Triss was completely naked, but there was nothing showing between the legs. With Geralt, they got around concealing his junk by having his pants remain on. I don't for a second think it was because they were bigots. I think they understand that actually showing genitalia would be crossing a line for too many people, so the best they can do is show the chest and derriere.
It's no CDPR's fault that we view female and male breasts differently! lol
As for your accusation of people thinking "nudity makes it mature", I'd argue that the other side is just as guilty by saying "nudity makes it immature". The proper way to look at it is in context. Nudity can be either mature or immature in the right or wrong setting.
Not to ride this off-topic train for too long but your argument is invalid!
If CDPR wanted to they could easilly hide the male genitalia with proper camera angles while still keeping Geralt naked, also, they could go the same way they took to hide female genitalia, which is pubic hair.Also as the poster above me mentioned, breasts are also external female body parts, so it's the same.
I never said they're bigots, I don't know their reasons, I'm guessing mostly because they themselves have no desire to look at male body parts?
Not to ride this off-topic train for too long but your argument is invalid!
If CDPR wanted to they could easilly hide the male genitalia with proper camera angles while still keeping Geralt naked, also, they could go the same way they took to hid female genitalia, pubic hair.Also as the poster above me mentioned, breasts are also external female body parts.
I never said they're bigots, I don't know their reasons, I'm guessing mostly because they themselves have no desire to look at male body parts?
Being straight is not a crime. If they want to make the game like this it's their choice and you should respect it.
Being straight is not a crime. If they want to make the game like this it's their choice and you should respect it.
Of course it is their choice.I never said they shouldn't be straight, in fact, I'm not talking about any kind of sexual orientation at all.
I am just all about equal sex and body representation in sex scenes which involve 2 partners.That's just my opinion and look on it.It's akward and feels out of place when only 1 person is sexualized in a sex scene, and that person is always female.I am not in any way dissing on CDPR, amazing company, I'm just advocating my outlook and opinion on how partly nude/nude scenes should be handled, with realism and equallity.
EDIT:
Being straight doesn't equal to ignoring a male person in a sex scene while sexualising a female character.
I agree that society views a topless man and woman differently. Female breasts are sexualized and considered nudity, while a topless male is not. To me, it's similar (but reverse) for lower nudity. It's almost unheard of to see female genitalia in popular culture, but it's becoming more common to see male genitalia. Which is why I find the "well a penis is genitalia so, just like female genitalia, it's hidden from view" argument to be incorrect. Just like the way that breasts are viewed differently across genders, so are genitals. Seeing Triss fully naked from the front is roughly equivalent to seeing Geralt fully naked from the front.
Being straight is not a crime. If they want to make the game like this it's their choice and you should respect it.
Being straight is not a crime. If they want to make the game like this it's their choice and you should respect it.
Who called it a crime?
If someone wants to advocate for male nudity in a game, it's their choice and you should respect it.
Being a hypocrite is something we can call out, and that's what TW2 stands for: an immature hypocritical double standard because dicks are yucky.
This has nothing to do with being straight, unless you think straight women don't like dick.
Don't like them don't buy the game however the way they implemented their game is their choice and you should respect their view and with that all the people that share that view and not calling them hypocrites.
Of course it is their choice.I never said they shouldn't be straight, in fact, I'm not talking about any kind of sexual orientation at all.
I am just all about equal sex and body representation is sex scenes which involve 2 partners.That's just my opinion and look on it.It's akward and feels out of place when only 1 person is sexualized in a sex scene, and that person is always female.I am not in any way dissing on CDPR, amazing company, I'm just advocating my outlook and opinion on how partly nude/nude scenes should be handled, with realism and equallity.
EDIT:
Being straight doesn't equal to ignoring a male person in a sex scene while sexualising a female character.
You are very sensible and I respect your view hope one day we can see full frontal nudity for both characters since romance scenes with pants are ridiculous and if they showed a naked female body then I have no problem seeing the man too. It's how the nature goes.
Who called it a crime?
If someone wants to advocate for male nudity in a game, it's their choice and you should respect it.
Don't like them don't buy the game however the way they implemented their game is their choice and you should respect their view and with that all the people that share that view and not calling them hypocrites.
There's no reason to respect views that aren't worthy of respect.
So you decide what is worthy of respect?? Seems legit...
Don't like them don't buy the game however the way they implemented their game is their choice and you should respect their view and with that all the people that share that view and not calling them hypocrites.
But it is hypocritical to argue that games should include nudity, especially "mature" games, and then turn around say that the only nudity that should be shown is female nudity. That runs counter to the "nudity = mature" argument, no?
Being a hypocrite is something we can call out, and that's what TW2 stands for: an immature hypocritical double standard because dicks are yucky.
If you want to start blaming something, you should blame society instead of tossing around words with no ground to them.
So you decide what is worthy of respect?? Seems legit...
There's no reason to respect views that aren't worthy of respect. That's the consequence of taking public positions: they attract comment.
I like TW2 just fine, but the devs don't get a pass on criticism because their game is fun and reactive.
1.) Aren't you arbitrarily deciding what exactly these views are? Or have you personally interviewed the devs?
2.) Respecting another's opinion, whether we agree with it or not, is sort of common courtesy in our society, and increases the chance of your position being taken seriously.
To be honest, I don't think Bioware has gotten it right in any game. ME 1 was the closest, but they only showed female partial nudity. ME2 and DA 2 were just silly and chaste feeling to me. No nudity, fade-to-black, and then a fully clothed discussion afterwards. Yawn. DA: O was also silly because of the underwear. It wasn't bad on it's own, to be honest, but Morrigan really killed for me. ME 3 had a few that weren't bad, but also had some real stinkers from what I hear, so it's a mixed bag.
I'd be happy with either the ME 1 approach with both males and females getting the partial nudity OR with tastefully done full nudity for both males and females. I don't see the need to hide nudity away. I don't need it to be graphic. And I certainly want to see both genders represented.
I think I saw my male Shepard's naked butt in his scene with Ashley in ME1. Very briefly, but I'm sure it was there.
The Witcher and The Witcher 2 didn't have genitalia from either gender in it. The problem is one of biology. It's much easier to creatively conceal female genitalia in a scene than male genitalia and still make it look natural. Take the bath scene in The Witcher 2 for example. Triss was completely naked, but there was nothing showing between the legs. With Geralt, they got around concealing his junk by having his pants remain on. I don't for a second think it was because they were bigots. I think they understand that actually showing genitalia would be crossing a line for too many people, so the best they can do is show the chest and derriere.
It's no CDPR's fault that we view female and male breasts differently! lol
As for your accusation of people thinking "nudity makes it mature", I'd argue that the other side is just as guilty by saying "nudity makes it immature". The proper way to look at it is in context. Nudity can be either mature or immature in the right or wrong setting.
I thought that for the Triss scenes Geralt got completely naked as well, but maybe I'm mistaken. Funnily enough CDPR did create a naked model for Geralt. There's a mod that swaps pants Geralt for naked Geralt in the sex scenes. I don't know why they didn't use naked Geralt themselves. Maybe they were pressured into it, like with one version they had to conceal Yenn's nipples?
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