416 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyFox101]

I like how u mash button on controller thats what i liked about DA2 i never switched characters on origins or DA2 i set up there tactics and just used my character But i admit that tactics was better on origins than DA2. DA2 Tactics seemed a little dubbed down to origins.

[CENIC]

Button-mashing with a controller is OK, but if I'm using my mouse and keyboard I don't want to have to clickspam. My personal experience with the previous games was that DA2 felt better with a controller and Origins felt better with mouse/keyboard.

Since you can use the mouse wheel to switch between tac-cam and regular-cam quickly and easily, I suppose I'll end up using tac-cam all the time so I have auto-attack. I'll just adjust the camera so it feels like I'm still in third-person mode.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Unfortunately for you and the like minded, DA:I is designed with the assumption that players are actually trying to win in combat.

It's a roleplaying game. The design should at least allow for the possibilty that someone might try to roleplay it.

[In Exile]

It's a roleplaying game. The design should at least allow for the possibilty that someone might try to roleplay it.

 

But all roleplaying games derive from wargames. They assume winning combat is a motive, much in the same way they assume the player will assume a role. 

[Ieldra]

It's a roleplaying game. The design should at least allow for the possibilty that someone might try to roleplay it.

I'm all for character abilities having more influence on the outcome and player abilities having less, but intentionally being bad at combat beyond that is going too far. I wouldn't expect that possibility to go into game design.

[Fidite Nemini]

But all roleplaying games derive from wargames. They assume winning combat is a motive, much in the same way they assume the player will assume a role. 

 

Erm, ... no?

 

Roleplaying means to assume a role. None of that derives from wargames. If anything, all roleplaying games derive from sociologic perspectives on any given setting a roleplaying game is situated in, some of which derive from wargames because it is a accessable setting to insert a motive for the story in.

[Sengoku no Maou]

Well this sucks, but what can you do about it?

[GeckoWacko]

Ask the dev's to change it. Still the chances are slim and me playing console im screwed anyway. Hopefully the TC will be a great addition, didn't used otherwise in DAO anyway.

[LexXxich]

Well this sucks, but what can you do about it?

Pitchforks, torches, you know the drill.

[In Exile]

Erm, ... no?

Roleplaying means to assume a role. None of that derives from wargames. If anything, all roleplaying games derive from sociologic perspectives on any given setting a roleplaying game is situated in, some of which derive from wargames because it is a accessable setting to insert a motive for the story in.

D&D is a variation of Chainmail, which was a tabletop medieval wargame. The core mechanics of P&P RPGs - deriving from the original D&D - focus on combat because of their roots in from a combat oriented game. RP now is a very unique thing - but cRPGs have never abandoned these wargame like roots.

[In Exile]

It is possible for me to complete arcanum without engaging in any combat. If anything, I think roleplaying is much closer to theater.

PST is pure D&D (more or less) and you can pretty much avoid all combat. And yet that doesn't mean it doesn't derive from a wargame.

[rupok93]

Why is anyone trying to defend this?

 

There should be auto attack, and if you wanna clickspam there is already an option for you.

 

DA2 did better than this how is DAI managing to do this worse?

[In Exile]

Why is anyone trying to defend this?

There should be auto attack, and if you wanna clickspam there is already an option for you.

DA2 did better than this how is DAI managing to do this worse?

I don't think anyone is defending this choice.

[ahtf]

Why is anyone trying to defend this?
 
There should be auto attack, and if you wanna clickspam there is already an option for you.
 
DA2 did better than this how is DAI managing to do this worse?

I think they made two different combatsystems for different kind of players. Action rpg and baldurs gate. So use tactical if you dont want the more actionoriented realtimecombat.

[rupok93]

I think they made two different combatsystems for different kind of players. Action rpg and baldurs gate. So use tactical if you dont want the more actionoriented realtimecombat.

 

And they people aren't defending this...

 

I don't wanna use tac cam all the time, DA2 managed to do this action combat while having a auto attack feature without needing to hold the button...

 

Just put an option to toggle the feature on, i don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. Adding this feature doesn't take away from the action gameplay.

 

Why exactly do I need to focus on holding down the attack button in a party based pause and real time game? 

 

All it does is add another annoying feature I have to focus on during gameplay instead of thinking about playing. If this was just controlling 1 character I wouldn't care but its multiple characters, I have to stop by main attack to go and click on one of the abilities.

[finc.loki]

Actually, I'd love it if the game had morale checks in it.

What I'm saying is that I'm not playing the combat to win. My character is trying to win (usually), but my job is to play the character. So even if i see a path to victory, I might not choose it. I'm only going to have my character do the things he thinks to do.

So I'm thinking through what he's noticing (which might be different from what I would notice), and then working out what decision he would make regarding it.

Never am I choosing the tactic I think will be most effective, unless my character happens to reach the same conclusion.

This is why I can't do it in real time, because the decision-making process is too computationally complex.

It has nothing to do with the player's tactical skills, because the player's tactical skill isn't relevant.

It seems we have different approach in how we play this RPG. I guess it stems from the way we play. Me being a real time player and you focusing on tactical TB type game play. I basically "am" the quizzy and you roleplay that the quizzy is it's own character and you control him (sorry if I made the wrong assumption, I might be totally wrong in how you approach it?).

It is actually the common two ways of playing RPG's. I project my actions on to the avatar effectively making it "me". I don't do the same with a game like Diablo 3 as an example, then I am just controlling the character and make decisions but the character isn't "me". 

[finc.loki]

If the only purpose of the auto-basic-attack button is to fill in the time gap between using skills, then I would find that very tedious. Why not just do that for me like the previous games?

 

Games like Shadows of Mordor and Batman have a manual attack button, but it fulfils a purpose. You use the button to gain hit streaks. With one of the ability upgrades (critical strike), it rewards you for finesse where you press once per hit to build up your streak faster. Not to mention there is also jumping and stunning during a melee battle to add variety.

 

Since I'm more of a tactical cam person, I guess the lack of auto-target doesn't affect me as much.

 

But still... TOGGLE!!!

Well the basic attack is there for sustain DPS, it can still do pretty decent damage, especially for faster characters like Dual Wield Rogue etc. It is probably there as well to differentiate the power for the special abilities. What I mean by that is that these abilities wouldn't feel or be special if they all do the heavy damage.

 

Like a basic attack with the Bow might do 80-100 damage per shot and pretty quickly, then you do the special of full draw and hit for 250 damage making it feel special, if enough stamina you do an explosive shot as well and then back to basic attacks as the stamina and cool down are done.

 

It is logical that it is there as a filler. To be honest in the time span you do 3 basic attacks you probably do close to some special abilities in damage, except for special effects like AOE or stuns etc.

 

Playing fully in real time most people don't care if basic attack is manual, it makes it engaging. Some do want auto-attack of the "basic" ones so they don't have to mash all the time, which is understandable and a toggle for this SHOULD exist.

 

In tactical camera it is a different matter and it seems to have one there, which makes it even more odd a toggle doesn't exist in real time play. Perhaps they made the assumption of there being two distinct players, either tac cam only or real time only.

[finc.loki]

I'm sure the devs at BW aren't morons, guys. At face value, however, I will say that I'm slightly flabbergasted and disappointed. This is probably a multifaceted issue which stems from the addition of multi player, and pressure from EA to appeal to twitch gamers. I'm sure I can tolerate a bit of trigger-finger ache so this definitely isn't a deal breaker for me. I'm actually more concerned about how this will affect accessibility for disabled gamers.

 Twitch gaming is FPS, period.

It is more they try to appeal to action RPG players, THAT is what it is. not Twitch. 

 

Do you know what twitch is in FPS and as gameplay? It is the ability to turn and acquire aim on target really fast and shoot and then go to next target. It is completely inconsequential in a game like this even if it is total action RPG even without tactical cam.

[finc.loki]

And this is why we are pissed off.  The Dragon Age franchise that we have come to know and love is not an Action RPG.  It is an RPG, the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.

That is not true at all, I never play turn based games, I abhor them. I only play real time RPG games and a varied bunch of them.

 

DA has had action RPG since DAO. The only thing is DAO was the weakest in respect to action RPG of the DA games so far including this one.

They found out that a lot of people complained about the really slow combat in real time and the awful animations that ruined the combos or making it that when you hit the next action you had to wait for the first one to finish. 

They fixed that in DA2, but they focused TOO much on Action aspect in DA2 ( that was great for me since I love combat in DA2), now they are finally walking the middle line and try and do both well. That said we will find out if they did it great or just so so.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm all for character abilities having more influence on the outcome and player abilities having less, but intentionally being bad at combat beyond that is going too far. I wouldn't expect that possibility to go into game design.

I'm not being intentionally bad. I'm just not considering it when I make decisions.

I'm being indifferent to combat.

[finc.loki]

Then why didn't they remove the pause button?

 

DA has always been "both a tactical and real time experience".  Why would you need to see "your opponents moves and the actions they're going to take" when you can just pause the game and set up appropriate counters?  How is it "easier to react" with dodging or spellcasting while you are button mashing?   How is it easier to switch targets?

 

I think your issue is you don't use the pause button, and you are trying to explain how mashing a button lets you also do other things at the same time?

 

LOL are you serious?

We get it you like pause gameplay, some of us can make these decision in real time and do not need to pause to think.

 

We can switch targets and move about in real time, I guess you can't it overwhelms you or something or like some said, perhaps you have a disability not allowing you to make certain button presses and movements fast enough.

 

Are YOU serious?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Do you know what twitch is in FPS and as gameplay? It is the ability to turn and acquire aim on target really fast and shoot and then go to next target.

This is why I loved that I could aim whiled paused in ME.

Without that, the game wouldn't have been playable.

[Sylvius the Mad]

We get it you like pause gameplay, some of us can make these decision in real time and do not need to pause to think.

We can switch targets and move about in real time, I guess you can't it overwhelms you or something or like some said, perhaps you have a disability not allowing you to make certain button presses and movements fast enough.

Are YOU serious?

That we prefer pause-and-play does not mean that we're incapable of playing in real time.

We just don't enjoy it.

[finc.loki]

How are you defining "action?" Because I suspect you're defining it differently than the rest of us.

 

To me, "action" means based on twitch mechanics--you being able to click a button fast enough, for example. As such, DA:O was not an action RPG. At all. In any way whatsoever. Neither was DA ][.

 

This multiplayer-inspired change to the game's mechanics, however, creates a situation where your combat prowess is based on twitch mechanics--you being able to click a button fast enough.

 

This is not like DA:O. Period. That's not debatable.

 

Now, the fact that auto-attack exists in tactical cam means there's a fortunate alternative. However, this is still, indisputably, a fundamental change in game mechanics.

Is this really so hard for some of you to understand?

 

An Action RPG is any game that allows real time decisions and it is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. That is it.

Now ask yourself this, can you play in REAL TIME in Dragon age games or not? If the answer is yes (a hint, it is), then it is an action rpg.

 

That said, Dragon Age is ALSO a turn based game or in reality a hybrid of sorts, because you can pause it and issue commands and then let them play out. The difference between DA and other turn based games at least DAO and DA2 is that once you unpause the action will CONTINUE even after your initial commands have been carried out. It doesn't pause again or wait for the enemy to have 'their turn'.

 

I can play the whole game with real time actions without ever pausing it. That makes it an Action RPG.