416 réponses à ce sujet

[finc.loki]

That we prefer pause-and-play does not mean that we're incapable of playing in real time.

We just don't enjoy it.

Flip the coin.

 

I don't enjoy pausing combat to issue orders. I would only use it when I feel forced to because the game has made an enemy or situation almost impossible otherwise.

THEN I use it very sparingly just to get an advantage or opening or if I need to micromanage a certain action from my party members, which I would consider a design flaw in the AI.

 

I don't even see the need why people argue about this in a game where we can do both, you can play Pause I can play real time.

[xkg]

I can play the whole game with real time actions without ever pausing it. That makes it an Action RPG. 

 

You can do that in Baldurs Gate too. Never heard anyone calling it an action RPG.

[CENIC]

I guess part of the reason for mapping basic attack to a button/key press is because there are destructible elements in the environment now...? Though I'm not sure that being unable to destroy crates or barrels would stop you from completing the game. In Origins you could map basic attack to a key AND use auto-attack on targeted enemies.

[finc.loki]

For pc players, attack is generally mapped to LMB or RMB, so unless you don't need to click on anything else on the screen, it becomes an issue.

A complete non-issue for me using a Naga mouse. I can LMB click to my hearts content for a basic attack and then immediately just make a command on the side buttons on my Naga for a special ability without any pause or interruption. It is all about how you map your commands.

 

You are speaking as though you'd use the mouse pointer to actually click on the "hot-key" bar to select attacks in real time. No real time player would do that, it is inefficient. Either they would hit the 1-8 keys or actually buy a mouse like Naga that have them readily available for speedy thumb clicks.

 

I can use a potion at any time having them mapped to specific keys, let's say "Q" for health and I can do it all right away one after another in combat.

 

Anything else doesn't matter because it is combat, not opening doors or chests and reading scrolls.

 

It seems some of you have played "pause" mode so long you forgot how to play real time.

 

I could either click the LMB for basic attack or just hold it down and it goes through the swings or shots (bow) etc.

 

I am still totally for a toggle switch allowing auto-attack for those who wish it, I don't see why that isn't possible and why they left it out.

But PLEASE stop harping and making unfounded claims about real time play.

[finc.loki]

You can do that in Baldurs Gate too. Never heard anyone calling it an action RPG.

Never heard anyone call it "Turn based" either.

 

It is all about semantics now, because no matter how much you try, Dragon age is NOT a turn based game. It is a real time game with pause for issue commands and make tactical decisions. It is not a real Turn based game in any sense of the word.

A real TB game would have actions queued up and then unpaused and the actions take place, then it would pause again and the AI enemy would issue commands, unpause and so on. Like KOTOR and Fallout 1-2 and Wasteland etc.

 

Today the terms are muddied.

 

How would you describe Elder Scroll games like Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim? What about Witcher games?

They are not hack n slash ala Diablo games (that used to be the games referred to as Action RPG). 

[rocsage]

what's the point of chain auto attacks now that the mechanism of force has been scrapped?

it's not like chain attacks can result in hit stuns and combos anymore.

[finc.loki]

Nah, if that's their thinking, it's just plain lazy, which I find hard to believe.

 

I've never used number keys, function keys, wasd, for any of these games since they've been making them.  They've always had on screen icons for everything specifically so you can do everything with just the mouse.

 

A Dev already confirmed the same exact thing for this game.

That is YOU.

I NEVER click the icons for any abilities in these games, I use Hot-Keys meaning 1-8 and I map them to my mouse for speedy access. I could issue 10 commands for every 1 command you can using mouse pointer to aim at target and then move it down to the icon on the "hot-key" bar.

 

I never lose track of my target and I can make really fast moves and use any ability really quick. No wonder I see some of you using pause and play if you think you have to use the mouse pointer to actually enable an action.

 

That you don't use the hot-keys is completely your own fault and decision, basically you have been talking about real time not even understanding how it works and think in the OLD terms of playing games like this.

[Wulfram]

I still don't get why role playing games derive from war games. Is it the way the system handles?
Player inputs?

 

They derive from war games because they derive from Dungeons and Dragons, which is derived from Chainmail, a medieval miniature wargame.

[xkg]

Never heard anyone call it "Turn based" either.

 

It is all about semantics now, because no matter how much you try, Dragon age is NOT a turn based game. It is a real time game with pause for issue commands and make tactical decisions. It is not a real Turn based game in any sense of the word.

A real TB game would have actions queued up and then unpaused and the actions take place, then it would pause again and the AI enemy would issue commands, unpause and so on. Like KOTOR and Fallout 1-2 and Wasteland etc.

 

Today the terms are muddied.

 

How would you describe Elder Scroll games like Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim? What about Witcher games?

They are not hack n slash ala Diablo games (that used to be the games referred to as Action RPG). 

 

"How would you describe Elder Scroll games like Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim? What about Witcher games?"

 

Typical action RPGs. Same as the best game of all the times (imo ofc) VtMB:Bloodlines.

Yor success depends on character stats but also on your personal reflex <<--- this is the "action" part.

 

If you can finish the game (even on the hardest difficulty) with

your_RL_personal_reflex == 0 

then it is not an action game.

 

That's how I see it.

[finc.loki]

"How would you describe Elder Scroll games like Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim? What about Witcher games?"

 

Typical action RPGs. Same as the best game of all the times (imo ofc) VtMB:Bloodlines.

Yor success depends on character stats but also on your personal reflex <<--- this is the "action" part.

 

If you can finish the game (even on the hardest difficulty) with

your_RL_personal_reflex == 0 

then it is not an action game.

 

That's how I see it.

I don't see that it has much to do with reflexes. You don't need fast reflexes to play Skyrim etc.

I see it as being able to have full control in real time. 

 

Dragon Age is in real time, you mash a button to do an attack like any RPG, then you hit an ability to do a special, which is basically also just mashing a button, only you can only do it if it is off a cool down.

It still takes place live, the movements and the combat is live, I.E, in "Action".

 

If you can finish the game (even on the hardest difficulty) with

your_RL_personal_reflex == 0 

then it is not an action game."

 

Yet somehow you forget you can play and finish the game without ever pausing it either. Meaning you play it "live action" or in real time.

 

Dragon Age is clearly a game with a hybrid or dual option way to play it.

 

It is not a STRICT Action only (real time) game, it CAN be paused and used very deeply as such and be played fully that way.

 

The point is that DA is not a TB game it is also a an action/real time RPG like many others. It has been since start.

[finc.loki]

The difference between an action Rpg and a crpg lies in the camera and the combat system. Crpgs take advantage of turn based mechanics and twitch pauses while action takes advantage of real time mechanics

Dragon Age does both.

 

Although I would argue it is not a traditional Turn Based game either, in pause mode. Because it doesn't have the 'pause to do the queued actions and then auto pause when enemy AI does it's decisions and unpause etc.

 

Like Fallout 1-2 and wasteland etc. Hell even KOTOR.

[pdusen]

DA2 did better than this how is DAI managing to do this worse?

 

You don't know that it's worse. You don't know anything yet. None of you do. You're taking a few confirmations about how things work, jamming them into a DAO framework, and imagining all of the things that could go wrong with that. Stop pretending you know better.

 

If you're worried about how it will end up, cancel your pre-order, and wait for feedback from other players. Then you actually will know and can make an informed decision.

[In Exile]

Dragon Age does both.

Although I would argue it is not a traditional Turn Based game either, in pause mode. Because it doesn't have the 'pause to do the queued actions and then auto pause when enemy AI does it's decisions and unpause etc.

Like Fallout 1-2 and wasteland etc. Hell even KOTOR.

KoTor is like BG. It has rounds but not terms from what I remember.

[rupok93]

You don't know that it's worse. You don't know anything yet. None of you do. You're taking a few confirmations about how things work, jamming them into a DAO framework, and imagining all of the things that could go wrong with that. Stop pretending you know better.

 

If you're worried about how it will end up, cancel your pre-order, and wait for feedback from other players. Then you actually will know and can make an informed decision.

 

Look fans were right about ME3 mechanics and da2 issues. Don't pretend bioware knows better because they have constantly proven in the previous 2 games that they don't. Going into this with skepticism instead of blind faith is the best way, accepting everything won't make the game better. They still have time to implement this small change.

[xkg]

The point is that DA is not a TB game it is also a an action/real time RPG like many others. It has been since start.

 

Ehhh we can argue like that to no end. So let's make it simple.

Pepole do classify things. This is made by the poeple for the people. Let's get some help.

 

You asked about The Witcher in previous post.

 

The Witcher

wikipedia : Genre(s) Action role-playing, hack and slash

metacritic : Genre(s): Action RPG

Gamespot: Genres:Action, Role-Playing

gamefaqs: PC >> Role-Playing >> Action RPG

 

Dragon Age Origins

wikipedia : Genre(s) Role-playing

metacritic : Genre(s): PC-style RPG

Gamespot: Genres:Role-Playing

gamefaqs: PC >> Role-Playing >> PC-style RPG

 

There is no ARPG category on IGN so they simply list these games as an RPG.

 

 

You can have your own personal calssification system, and I am not teling you it is bad or forbidden.

But the general consensus is : DA:O is RPG, not ARPG. No point arguing about that.

 

If you can, go and find even one site that has it in Action RPG category.

[CrazyMooNew]

I'm...kind of iffy about it...

 

Now while I understand that hitting the button once and auto-attacking to victory isn't overly exciting...holding down the attack button isn't much of a step forward (honestly though...this isn't a character action game so even a small step is huge). But...I think it could improve the combat and that it will...it keeps you on your toes just a little bit more and I imagine that melee combat will be far more engaging.

 

I guess that I'm all for it.

[GeckoWacko]

I'm...kind of iffy about it...

Now while I understand that hitting the button once and auto-attacking to victory isn't overly exciting...holding down the attack button isn't much of a step forward (honestly though...this isn't a character action game so even a small step is huge). But...I think it could improve the combat and that it will...it keeps you on your toes just a little bit more and I imagine that melee combat will be far more engaging.

I guess that I'm all for it.

That's cool. I'm against, but it doesn't matter for both parties it being optional. That you can switch to auto attack or hold attack in menu/options/gameplay.

Everybody's happy.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It is all about semantics now, because no matter how much you try, Dragon age is NOT a turn based game. It is a real time game with pause for issue commands and make tactical decisions. It is not a real Turn based game in any sense of the word.
A real TB game would have actions queued up and then unpaused and the actions take place, then it would pause again and the AI enemy would issue commands, unpause and so on. Like KOTOR and Fallout 1-2 and Wasteland etc.

BioWare has never made a turn-based game.

BioWare pioneered Real-Time-with-Pause (RTwP) gameplay. It allows the game to be played in real time, which you like, or paused to issue commands with no time pressures, which I like.

RTwP is a terrific design. It gives both of us what we want.

But all commands should be issuable while paused, so removing the basic attack from that category seems more than a little weird.

Previously, the only (non-Jade Empire) BioWare game that did something similar was KotOR, which didn't allow us to issue movement commands while paused. Movement could only be done in real time, making KotOR easily the most real-time of BioWare's RTwP games. Even ME let us issue some movement commands while paused. So you calling KotOR turn-based confuses me.

[In Exile]

BioWare has never made a turn-based game.

BioWare pioneered Real-Time-with-Pause (RTwP) gameplay. It allows the game to be played in real time, which you like, or paused to issue commands with no time pressures, which I like.

RTwP is a terrific design. It gives both of us what we want.

But all commands should be issuable while paused, so removing the basic attack from that category seems more than a little weird.

Previously, the only (non-Jade Empire) BioWare game that did something similar was KotOR, which didn't allow us to issue movement commands while paused. Movement could only be done in real time, making KotOR easily the most real-time of BioWare's RTwP games. Even ME let us issue some movement commands while paused. So you calling KotOR turn-based confuses me.

 

I think people get confused with the rounds. KoTOR was more explicit about its use of rounds than other RTwP games like DA:O/DA2. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think people get confused with the rounds. KoTOR was more explicit about its use of rounds than other RTwP games like DA:O/DA2.

I still miss the auto-pause at end of round from BG.

[In Exile]

I still miss the auto-pause at end of round from BG.

 

Yes. I wish Bioware would let us come up with auto-pause conditions.