417 réponses à ce sujet

[LexXxich]

There's no way they will force anyone to use Tac Cam simply because a gameplay mechanic which was always adaptable to multiple inputs has been changed for no reason.
 
There has to be a toggle.

There's no way BW would remove ability to move camera away from controlled character in DA2.
There's no way BW would remove ability to select more than one party member, ability to spend attribute points on level-up, ability to modify skill hotbar in DAI.
There's no way BW would remove whole inventory and item customisation and vehicle gameplay and non-combat character skills in ME2.
There's no way BW would remove all side-missions and make the ending a "choose a colour" vignette in ME3.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I'm sure i'll adapt. No big deal to me.

[Jester]

So...what exactly was wrong with character auto-attacking when you click an enemy?

If a player chooses to auto-attack, it means they want their character to attack, until they want to move or use a spell/talent. Why would I NOT attack? 

Having to hold a mouse button sounds extremely tedious. 

 

But well, we'll see how it works out in practice.

[ZRO]

I'm sure i'll adapt. No big deal to me.

 

Same here. You'll hear no complaining from me. It's just another thing to get used to.

[Ieldra]

Well, this seriously cramps my style. I used to actively do things only when necessary, which certainly didn't include the times my mage was shooting basic attacks while waiting for the cooldown. It's not that I can't adapt. It's that the new system will likely be significantly less fun in some situations, while improving nothing at all in others. A net negative.

Edit:
I just read the clarificiation by Barrett Rodych. Holding down a key is acceptable (unlike holding down a mouse button). Still, it's a significant hassle for those playthroughs where I play for the story and don't want to waste time with fighting. I guess I'll have to use more intricate tactical setups then. We'll see.

[Brogan]

Yea, who cares if your character just sits there and gets killed after you gave him a simple attack order.

 

Nothing like removing the complexities and watching...  nothing happen.

[devSin]

Your character just sits there.

I don't think this is what has been described.

Your character will attack the target once (moving into range if necessary).

Then you will just sit there (unless you click again or have held down LMB or the R key).

[finc.loki]

The guy I quoted was saying that TACTICAL combat wasn't as engaging as button mashy action combat. Which is nonsense. There's a reason why people find good tactical combat challenging.

 

That's what I was addressing, not just the removal of auto-attack. 

No I don't find that pausing combat and watching a game frozen and then sit and look at it from angles and make commands to hold position there, taunt this guy. You move here, and back stand after taunt for maximum damage, archer shoot this guy with long shot bla bla bla. I might as well play Civilization, chess, or some other turn based game.

 

No it does NOT make you 'smarter' or more capable, in fact it makes it easier if anything. Try doing things on the fly without the "get out of jail" pause mode all the time.

 

I just find it extremely immersion breaking to pause the combat all the time. It really makes me wonder why have special combat at all if you will spend half the game paused. Then unpause for ONE action to have happen then pause again for next action.

 

Tactics happen in real time. "tactical" camera is almost borderline strategy, especially with the new 'preparation for a fight'.

 

Auto-attack is having the game play itself for you. Why even have combat? It might as well be 2D Civilization game play instead.

 

 

Button mashing, it is something to do in between big hitters and be actively involved with the game. 

[dutch_gamer]

I don't think this is what has been described.

Your character will attack the target once (moving into range if necessary).

Then you will just sit there (unless you click again or have held down LMB or the R key).

Or until Brogan decides to have his character use an actual ability. Just sending in your character and doing nothing else, even with an actual auto-attack button isn't a sound plan unless you want your character to get killed and then it is mission accomplished.

[Navasha]

I guess the better way to look at the problem is what the different cameras/modes are....     You have character control camera mode, which will lock behind your selected character over the shoulder in which you actively must control him in combat (like in MP) and then you have Tac-cam Mode (or combat mode) as I will be calling it.    Tac-cam isn't locked to a single top-down or iso position, you can move it, lock and unlock it all you want.     You could even lock it into the same position as the Character camera mode if you wanted, thus getting the same view but enjoying the benefit of having your character auto attack.  

 

 

Character mode for moving about the world outside of combat and Combat Camera (tac-cam with auto attack) when in combat.   Only people who enjoy button mashing need to stay in the single character control mode in combat.

[devSin]

Or until Brogan decides to have his character use an actual ability. Just sending in your character and doing nothing else, even with an actual auto-attack button isn't a sound plan unless you want your character to get killed and then it is mission accomplished.

What if you're out of stamina or your abilities are in cooldown (or for any reason you don't want to use one of your 8 abilities on the current target)?

Holding down a button to chain attacks is not auto-attack, and somebody who prefers the auto-attack mechanic has every right to be discouraged by this surprise revelation.

[Lennard Testarossa]

*snip*

 

 

 

Prior to DA 2's release, Fernando Melo said something about Bioware wanting to attract the CoD audience. Mission accomplished, it seems.

[wolfhowwl]

More like the Diablo 3 audience.

[dutch_gamer]

Okay, this is getting frustrating because I keep being misinterpreted on this forum. Where did I say that nobody should be discouraged? I have already stated before I don't even like the change myself.

[Sylvius the Mad]

***WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!complaining and whiney post****


Seriously though I really couldn't care less. It is attacking and combat is supposed to be somewhat engaging, not sit and watch until one of your cool downs goes away and then do something....

I'm engaged in watching how my characters perform to see if I need to alter their Tactics or learn different abilities.

I absolutely do not want to have to trigger every attack manually. That's why I hated The Witcher and Diablo.

[Subtle54]

The only problem I have with button mashing, be it keyboard, mouse or controller is the impact it has on equipment wear. The unrepairable, button sticking, five controllers (3 different brands) I have, bear testament.

[Brogan]

I don't think this is what has been described.

Your character will attack the target once (moving into range if necessary).

Then you will just sit there (unless you click again or have held down LMB or the R key).

 

Nope.  If you pause the game, make your target selection, then unpause it, you are not actively holding the button down.  That is what Barrett said, word for word.

 

It's laughable.

[Brogan]

Or until Brogan decides to have his character use an actual ability. Just sending in your character and doing nothing else, even with an actual auto-attack button isn't a sound plan unless you want your character to get killed and then it is mission accomplished.

 

Which ability should I use?  Or should I perform a buff first?  Or do you think I should drink a potion?

 

....

 

You missed the point.

[Sylvius the Mad]

No I don't find that pausing combat and watching a game frozen and then sit and look at it from angles and make commands to hold position there, taunt this guy. You move here, and back stand after taunt for maximum damage, archer shoot this guy with long shot bla bla bla. I might as well play Civilization, chess, or some other turn based game.

No it does NOT make you 'smarter' or more capable, in fact it makes it easier if anything. Try doing things on the fly without the "get out of jail" pause mode all the time.

Try playinga character who isn't you.

Why is your character's combat effectiveness at all determined by your ability think quickly? You don't even exist in the game world - your skills and abilities should be irrelevant.

Tactics happen in real time. "tactical" camera is almost borderline strategy, especially with the new 'preparation for a fight'.

Yes, they do. That's why your character isn't allowed to do anything until you unpause.

Auto-attack is having the game play itself for you.

The gameplay is in the decision-making. There are no desicions to be made in repeatedly clicking the same button.

Why even have combat? It might as well be 2D Civilization game play instead.

I would love turn-based combat. Luckily, there's Wasteland 2.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Bioware (or DA at least) seems less and less inclined to include options like "enable tactics for controlled character"

I still hold out hope for that one.

[realguile]

Mortal Kombat grandmasters don't mash the attack button.  Because mashing the attack button is a quick way to get yourself killed against the other grandmasters. 

Damn straight. 

 

You don't mash in ANY game be it fighter, rpg, ect. cause it will get you stomped quick fast

[Brogan]

Tactics happen in real time. "tactical" camera is almost borderline strategy, especially with the new 'preparation for a fight'.

 

[Jester]

There's no way BW would remove ability to select more than one party member, ability to spend attribute points on level-up, ability to modify skill hotbar in DAI.

WAIT WHAT?!

You can't select more than one party member?

What kind of bullshit is that?