416 réponses à ce sujet

[finc.loki]

Try playinga character who isn't you.

Why is your character's combat effectiveness at all determined by your ability think quickly? You don't even exist in the game world - your skills and abilities should be irrelevant.
Yes, they do. That's why your character isn't allowed to do anything until you unpause.
The gameplay is in the decision-making. There are no desicions to be made in repeatedly clicking the same button.
I would love turn-based combat. Luckily, there's Wasteland 2.

 

Playing another party member, sure, with the flick of a button. Your point?

 

No I exist in real life, but my AVATAR, I.E the character I control exist in the game world. My skills should be irrelevant? Only to someone that lacks them, does that make sense.

 

My point about tactics mean that it is a real time decision in an ever changing battlefield, strategy is the overall goal you have for an outcome.

Tactics is as an example an enemy with a shield appear, you decide to switch to a dual wielding rogue and backstab, jump to warrior to taunt (first), etc.

On harder difficulties you are forced to pause, most of the time because of the constant damage taken. I am fine with people wanting this. But I abhor people that think they are somehow special and 'good' at playing when they sit in an infinite pause mode. That is not really a tactic game play. You can't pause a battlefield, so the name is a misnomer.

 

Yes the gameplay lies in decision making, are you trying to say that can only take place in a frozen/paused game? Last time I check I make decisions all the time in real time with what ability to use on what enemy and when etc.

 

Then you're in luck because Tactical cam is nothing but turn based combat, only the enemy works in real time to respond to your actions. You get the advantage to think and strategize forever and then unpause or FF and then the enemy AI can't do to much cause you insta-pause the game again before it can do anything meaningful as a response (the enemy AI).  

 

Turn based games aren't tremendously popular because most people feel it is boring and you spend half the game just in a paused screen.

 

Like the other guy said though, that makes me a COD player, *roll-eyes* ...

[Dunbartacus]

The question in tactical cam is will my party tactics run properly or is that shifting me to full X COM mode?

In the PC twitch stream party members were still using tactics while in tactical camera.

[finc.loki]

Okay this is kind of disappointing, I hope they patch it in or something, as others have said, there's no immersion in clicking the same basic attack.

And at the same time, where is the immersion in clicking a button to have your character play part of the game for you?

One can also argue, where is the immersion of having combat if you spend it paused?

 

There are two sides to every coin. 

 

I wouldn't have a problem with the CHOICE of either way, those that want auto-attack gets that, and those that play real time and like to be involved in the fight and not watch as they wait for special abilities can do that too.

 

Still I sincerely think the auto-attack crowd is the minority, perhaps not here on the forums, but in general of the people buying this game.

 

The button mashing part of doing it real time is that it gives you an illusion or feel that you are constantly and actively partaking in combat. It is easy to see why a real time player don't mind it. A tactical player don't like to PLAY the combat anyways, but make a choice and watch it unfold. 

 

The good part with this game is that it actually allows for both of these play styles. But some elitists think it should just all be tactical Turn based combat (good luck with sales doing that). They also think they are somehow "more RPG" player when sitting looking at a paused screen, yet don't realize they need to pause indefinitely to apply their tactic.

[CENIC]

Yay. Awesome button™ is back. More awesome than before, with all the flashes and colors during the combat.
 
"All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again"
 
 
"When you press a button, something awesome has to happen
So button, awesome, connected" even more now, in Dragon Age inquisition..

"They don't like mashing the Awesome button™."
"Hmm... well, what about holding it down?"
"Brilliant! Someone give this man a raise!"

[finc.loki]

Yay. Awesome button™ is back. More awesome than before, with all the flashes and colors during the combat.

 

"All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again"

 

 

"When you press a button, something awesome has to happen
So button, awesome, connected" even more now, in Dragon Age inquisition..

I bet you'd love a table top or card based game of dragon age instead. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Playing another party member, sure, with the flick of a button. Your point?

No I exist in real life, but my AVATAR, I.E the character I control exist in the game world. My skills should be irrelevant? Only to someone that lacks them, does that make sense.

I play roleplaying games to roleplay, not to have my combat skills challenged. My combat skills shouldn't matter.

I roleplay combat. I'm making my character's decisions, not mine. So even if I'm a tactical genius, my character might not be. He might make terrible decisions. But it's hard to figure out what someone else would do in real-time. Deciding what I want to do in real-time is easy - that's how real-life works - but I'm not playing me in the game.

And regardless, I dislike the frantic action of real-time games. I prefer my gameplay to be calm, not frenetic.

[xkg]

My skills should be irrelevant? Only to someone that lacks them, does that make sense.

 

In CRPG ? No. Your physical skills shouldn't  be relevant. If they are, the game becomes an Action RPG.

That's not what I wanted from this game.

[xkg]

I bet you'd love a table top or card based game of dragon age instead. 

 

Not "instead".As an addition to a great aRPG I was waiting for, yes, that would be nice. Seems like I am going to get none of this. What a shame.

[finc.loki]

This post makes no sense. There is no auto attack in civ. Your example is completely nonsensical.

 

Some of us have no interest in button mashing, or some have arthritis or some other reason why holding down a mouse button or key for any length of time is painful. Do you understand that?

 

I was talking about if the game is all about being Turn based and you do nothing yourself and the game plays itself for you, minus some few input decisions then yes it is like playing Civilization. I.E, when combat takes place in the game you just queue up some commands and point with the mouse positioning character etc and then unpause (END TURN) and watch the decisions unfold, then pause again  and rinse and repeat.

Do YOU understand  that?

 

Your posting is as bad as your avatar is. Yes, you have to press button continuously so something awesome like autoattack happens.

Are you playing a videogame or a tabletop/card based game?

Stop saying the 'something awesome' happens, same thing happens when you unpause and the combat effects happen. It's just ignorant.

 

It is CLEARLY aimed at being INVOLVED in the combat if you are a real time player, waiting for cooldowns. You have auto-attack in tactical cam.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I bet you'd love a table top or card based game of dragon age instead.

Tabletop games are multiplayer. I don't play multiplayer.

A turn-based strategy game, though. That would be cool.

I really enjoyed the turn-based combat in Dragon Age Journeys.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I was talking about if the game is all about being Turn based and you do nothing yourself and the game plays itself for you, minus some few input decisions then yes it is like playing Civilization. I.E, when combat takes place in the game you just queue up some commands and point with the mouse positioning character etc and then unpause (END TURN) and watch the decisions unfold, then pause again  and rinse and repeat.

Do YOU understand  that?

 

 

Yes Civ is turn based, but that has absolutely nothing to do with this auto attack discussion. You can have autoattack turned on and still be actively involved in the game, like positioning your character for a backstab or moving to cover to avoid a power attack or whatever.

 

Some of us would prefer to play the game and be involved in the game play but not have pain in our hands from holding down a damn key constantly. I don't know how i can make it plainer than that.

[GeckoWacko]

Tabletop games are multiplayer. I don't play multiplayer.

A turn-based strategy game, though. That would be cool.

I really enjoyed the turn-based combat in Dragon Age Journeys.

Oh how I loved Jagged Alliance 2 back in the day. Turn based can be pure genius.

[finc.loki]

I play roleplaying games to roleplay, not to have my combat skills challenged. My combat skills shouldn't matter.

I roleplay combat. I'm making my character's decisions, not mine. So even if I'm a tactical genius, my character might not be. He might make terrible decisions. But it's hard to figure out what someone else would do in real-time. Deciding what I want to do in real-time is easy - that's how real-life works - but I'm not playing me in the game.

And regardless, I dislike the frantic action of real-time games. I prefer my gameplay to be calm, not frenetic.

 

I ropleplay RPG games too. What is your point with that statement. It makes no sense. Roleplaying an RPG can take place in many ways. Either feeling you 'are' the character, or that you control a 3rd party character. It is the decisions you make in the game world, what you 'say' etc etc.

A videogame is an interactive entertainment, of course you can have skills in an RPG in real time combat. Some don't like that, I.E you and prefer games that are Turn Based. Most prefer to be active. And as for skills, for most people an RPG is not a twitch game, it's just to engage an enemy and make real time decisions in how you defeat said enemy. What abilities to choose that are best and so on.

 

What you say about you being a tactical genius but your character is not, what is that suppose to mean? The game character does EXACTLY what you tell it to do. It doesn't have a mind of it's own where you say go there, taunt and use this ability and it says "No I am going to run away and shoot with a bow instead".

 

 

You like turn based, calm games. I like real time games or I can just read a book or play a table top games or a D&D card game.

Good for both of us they cater to both play styles.

[finc.loki]

In CRPG ? No. Your physical skills shouldn't  be relevant. If they are, the game becomes an Action RPG.

That's not what I wanted from this game.

DA has been a mix of cRPG and Action RPG from the start. I know this very well or I would never have bought the first two DA games since I absolutely hate Turn based games. So much so I put away KOTOR (otherwise a super awesome game), I just can't stand it, it removes me completely from the game.

We all have different preferences.

 

As for "player skill", no it doesn't take "Twitch" skills if that is what you are refering too. These RPG games and other real time ones do not require much of the player to have perfect aim or something. Just get into the action and decide what abilities to use and prioritize targets.

The only people I can see that lack this rudimentary skills are disabled people. Meaning a literal handicap that prevents from taking more fast actions.

 

I am happy for them this game cater to both our playstyles because then we all get to enjoy this awesome (hopefully) game.

[xkg]

What you say about you being a tactical genius but your character is not, what is that suppose to mean? The game character does EXACTLY what you tell it to do. It doesn't have a mind of it's own where you say go there, taunt and use this ability and it says "No I am going to run away and shoot with a bow instead".

 

That would be great if it worked like that. Morale mechanics.

My character is coward. I "told him" to engage h2h, but his morale roll check failed. He decided to run away and attack from distance.

[finc.loki]

Yes Civ is turn based, but that has absolutely nothing to do with this auto attack discussion. You can have autoattack turned on and still be actively involved in the game, like positioning your character for a backstab or moving to cover to avoid a power attack or whatever.

 

Some of us would prefer to play the game and be involved in the game play but not have pain in our hands from holding down a damn key constantly. I don't know how i can make it plainer than that.

It does in the sense I was responding to people that said button mashing is for stupid people (basically their underhanded meaning). So my response is that not having auto-attack in REAL TIME combat is OK. You still have it in Tactical cam, which btw you can play permanently in combat, just make decisions and then forward the combat and it plays it out for you WITH auto-attack, repause and make new decisions and when combat is done pop out and run along your merry way.

 

So why the need for auto-attack in the real time portion of the combat? Most real time players wouldn't use it, because it is odd to have the character auto play and then you make decisions to drop special abilities. Maybe a select few like that but most I think not.

 

I don't know why they don't have that as toggable option though, it makes no sense. I do understand you want that and I support that 100% as an option.

[finc.loki]

 

 

That would be great if it worked like that. Morale mechanics.

My character is coward. I "told him" to engage h2h, but his morale roll check failed. He decided to run away and attack from distance.

 

You are describing turn based only game or tabletop card RPG games with the roll of the dice type deal.

 

This game is basically a real time game with a fully integrated TB combat in tac cam mode. In a sense that is pretty awesome because it allows both crowds to play the way they want to.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Some people like to roleplay like their playing a table top game when they are playing dragon age. Unfortunately, that leads to various problems since dragon age doesn't pretend to be a table top game. DA games have always had a lot of combat in them and a strong action rpg element has always been in them. People who wish to play as if DA: I was a tabletop game are going to have to ignore such problems or DA: I is just not going to be the game for them.

[Icy Magebane]

This tactical camera sounds annoying.  So we can tell the party members to auto-attack in tactical mode, but on consoles we can't advance time without holding down a button... and if we leave tactical mode, they stop auto-attacking since we aren't holding down the attack button.  So basically, we're going to be holding down a button to attack no matter what. 

 

I think it's time to stop using the term "auto-attack" and start using "basic attack."

 

edit:  Sorry, I mean that the character we are controlling stops attacking, not all party members...

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Try playinga character who isn't you.

Why is your character's combat effectiveness at all determined by your ability think quickly? You don't even exist in the game world - your skills and abilities should be irrelevant.
 

 

Ah......because it makes the game fun to play. I know thats a very subjective answer but it is the answer to your question.

[UniformGreyColor]

TL:DR

 

At this point I'm scared about what they are doing to tactics.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

It does in the sense I was responding to people that said button mashing is for stupid people (basically their underhanded meaning). So my response is that not having auto-attack in REAL TIME combat is OK. You still have it in Tactical cam, which btw you can play permanently in combat, just make decisions and then forward the combat and it plays it out for you WITH auto-attack, repause and make new decisions and when combat is done pop out and run along your merry way.

 

So why the need for auto-attack in the real time portion of the combat? Most real time players wouldn't use it, because it is odd to have the character auto play and then you make decisions to drop special abilities. Maybe a select few like that but most I think not.

 

I don't know why they don't have that as toggable option though, it makes no sense. I do understand you want that and I support that 100% as an option.

 

 

OK, I understand your point, but you are adding all this nonsense about turn based games and card gamers. Auto attack does not make DA a card game, nor does it make it 'auto play'. What it does is avoid the necessity to hold down a key for extended periods, while you do other things. You are complaining about people make jokes about awesome buttons but you are doing the same thing in reverse.

 

A togglable option is all anyone is asking for anyway, so it seems we all agree and can stop arguing, no?

 

On another note, is posting really really slow for anyone else right now?

[finc.loki]

This tactical camera sounds annoying.  So we can tell the party members to auto-attack in tactical mode, but on consoles we can't advance time without holding down a button... and if we leave tactical mode, they stop auto-attacking since we aren't holding down the attack button.  So basically, we're going to be holding down a button to attack no matter what. 

 

I think it's time to stop using the term "auto-attack" and start using "basic attack."

No you can't stop using the term auto attack for basic attack.

 

Basic attack is what happens in either auto or real time button mashing not using a special ability. It is the generic non special attack your character does. 

[Icy Magebane]

No you can't stop using the term auto attack for basic attack.

 

Basic attack is what happens in either auto or real time button mashing not using a special ability. It is the generic non special attack your character does. 

Excuse me?  If it doesn't happen automatically, it's not an auto-attack.  Mashing or holding a button is not automatic.  I think I might be misunderstanding your post... that first sentence is really throwing me off...

[finc.loki]

OK, I understand your point, but you are adding all this nonsense about turn based games and card gamers. Auto attack does not make DA a card game, nor does it make it 'auto play'. What it does is avoid the necessity to hold down a key for extended periods, while you do other things. You are complaining about people make jokes about awesome buttons but you are doing the same thing in reverse.

 

A togglable option is all anyone is asking for anyway, so it seems we all agree and can stop arguing, no?

 

On another note, is posting really really slow for anyone else right now?

It was just a reaction to players making it sound like everyone wants auto attack as default and only mode, or that we that like to have real time basic attacks are somehow stupid silly COD players. Do you understand why I reacted?

 

I just don't like the people that act like their way of playing is the ONLY acceptable way.

 

I like DA because it caters to both styles of play. 

 

Yes it boggles my mind why they don't just have a switch in setting saying auto-attack on or off. auto-attack exists in tac cam so there is no reason not to in real time for people like you that want it. I personally just don't want it to be ONLY an auto-attack, because I prefer the button mashing making me feel involved in the combat during cooldowns.