As for the thread, I do agree with the general sentiment here. In ME1, the portrayal of the council was fine (not great but ok). In ME2 it falls apart.
My only criticism of them in ME1 is that sometimes they're jerks just for the sake of being jerks. This is mostly for the post Feros and Noveria scenes where they disapprove of Shepard's actions, no matter what action is taken.
My only criticism of them in ME1 is that sometimes they're jerks just for the sake of being jerks. This is mostly for the post Feros and Noveria scenes where they disapprove of Shepard's actions, no matter what action is taken.
That's true enough. The problem here is that the council members are not really characters with a personality but rather transportation devices for a message. E.g. after Novaria, no matter what you do to the queen, the Turian councilor lashes out at you. It would have been better IMO, if BW gave them a real personality. So maybe the Turian councilor would actually agree with a Shepard who killed the queen but the Asari councilor would chastise Shep for it instead. Stuff like that. But it's maily a metagame issue, that you only truly realize in your second playthrough. In ME2 and 3 they are just a bit daft all the time. [
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In ME1, the one Councilor that never seemed to be a jerk was Valern. It was mainly Sparatus that gave Shepard crap most of the time, which makes sense since turians and humans only recently became allies.
That's true enough. The problem here is that the council members are not really characters with a personality but rather transportation devices for a message. E.g. after Novaria, no matter what you do to the queen, the Turian councilor lashes out at you. It would have been better IMO, if BW gave them a real personality. So maybe the Turian councilor would actually agree with a Shepard who killed the queen but the Asari councilor would chastise Shep for it instead. Stuff like that. But it's maily a metagame issue, that you only truly realize in your second playthrough. In ME2 and 3 they are just a bit daft all the time. [
I agree, but Sparatus' dialogue if you kill the queen is priceless.
My only criticism of them in ME1 is that sometimes they're jerks just for the sake of being jerks. This is mostly for the post Feros and Noveria scenes where they disapprove of Shepard's actions, no matter what action is taken.
Yes, this feel a bit like a forced plot device to put Shepard on his/her own. The 3rd game was the only one where it felt like the council had any nuance in their interaction with Shepard. But then ME is a seven year old game.
As to the OPs question: no, you are not. I was not at all surprised that the council was dubious of the Reaper threat, especially after Capt. Anderson introduced them by bringing up a mystic vision my Shep had yet to even make sense of herself. (Every time I play that moment, I'm looking for the "you've got to be f***ing kidding me" dialogue option). I agree with the general sentiment here that the doubt works in game one, and feels a little strange in game two. I also agree with @MrFob's point that this game 2 doubt was not a necessary story device. Either way its not a game breaker. The characters I really wanted to interact with were on the ship anyway.
I think the Mass Effect series has had a problem in general with how politicians are portrayed. Almost without fail they are incompetent assholes who stand in the way of Shepard actually getting things done.
I get that people nowadays tend to be bit cynical in how they view their governments...but the series could benefit from a more balanced portrayal. It was more than a little over-the-top.
The DA series is much better in that regard.
Guest_The Weakened_*
I think the Mass Effect series has had a problem in general with how politicians are portrayed. Almost without fail they are incompetent assholes who stand in the way of Shepard actually getting things done.
I get that people nowadays tend to be bit cynical in how they view their governments...but the series could benefit from a more balanced portrayal. It was more than a little over-the-top.
The DA series is much better in that regard.
I can't really speak for any other countries, but most American politicians are incompetent assholes who stand the way of actually getting things done.
I can't really speak for any other countries, but most American politicians are incompetent assholes who stand the way of actually getting things done.
Hey! No politics.
I think the Mass Effect series has had a problem in general with how politicians are portrayed. Almost without fail they are incompetent assholes who stand in the way of Shepard actually getting things done.
I get that people nowadays tend to be bit cynical in how they view their governments...but the series could benefit from a more balanced portrayal. It was more than a little over-the-top.
The DA series is much better in that regard.
In the most practical story sense they make for flat, dull, boring, and completely uninteresting characters. In most cases I can't even credit the writers for making a character that is fun to hate, because they usually stop being characters at some point and just become obstructing and frustrating plot devices.
DA is pretty balanced for the most part. I loved the character of Meredith up to the reveal that she was possessed by her sword.
In the most practical story sense they make for flat, dull, boring, and completely uninteresting characters. In most cases I can't even credit the writers for making a character that is fun to hate, because they usually stop being characters at some point and just become obstructing and frustrating plot devices.
DA is pretty balanced for the most part. I loved the character of Meredith up to the reveal that she was possessed by her sword.
You got me thinking about a politician in ME who's fun to hate. Not gonna day Udina cuz that's too obvious. The only time he was really any good was during the renegadeshep speech at the end of ME1 if you let the council die. There's his true nature. And I gotta say, I got a real sense of how ... final... everything in ME3 was gonna be when Udina did a 180 degree personality change in the first part fo the game. I felt bad for the guy that they didn't let him be the one to tell shep his spectre status had been restored. They shouldn't have had Sparatus turn back as he was leaving and say, "oh by the way..."
Humanity will always be considered second rate, indeed. Should have waited until Sparatus left, and then have Udina turn to shep and quietly, but intensely, say, "Shepard, you're still/you are again a spectre. You've got free reign to go out there and do what needs to be done."
Uh, anyway my pick was gonna be Sparatus. In ME1 he was a typical turian anti-human ****head. I was content to hang up on him. ME2 made him famous, air-quoting away the reapers. He was the perfect one to hate. In ME3, though, he developed as a character too. In the first meeting with the councilors he was the only one willing to consider the crucible idea. He came to shep with a way to bypass the council. After the coup attempt, he's the first one to say, "You have saved my life twice now. I owe you a great debt...." if you don't kill off the council in ME1, that is.
Finally I decided on Valern. Valern has no redeeming qualities in any of the games. Trouble is, I don't love to hate him. I just hate him. Heh.
And I could never hate Tevos. 
Certainly at first, it's entirely credible to believe that this is some sort of smokescreen that Saren's using to confuse people and earn the geth's loyalty, and that Shepard is confused about the meaning of the visions from the beacons. I think they do start to seem a little more obtuse as the game progresses. I suppose by the time Shepard is recalled to the Citadel, they have the following evidence:
The latter may actually be the strongest piece of evidence, assuming that in the age of omnitools and quantum entanglement communicators, Shepard can actually prove that the conversation occurred. While it still could have been fabricated, the motive and rationale for the fabrication seem dubious. Saren's forces are doing their best to kill Shepard on Virmire, and Saren probably didn't intend to let Shepard leave the planet alive - so why bother creating an elaborate fabrication like that for someone you're planning to kill? How could Saren even be sure Shepard would find that room? And if Saren did fabricate it and knew Shepard was in there talking to the "fabrication," why not send a squadron of geth in to shoot Shepard in the back of the head while (s)he's distracted? The only way it makes sense is if Saren had already decided to try to "recruit" Shepard at this point and knew that his forces would put up a good fight but ultimately fail.
On the other hand, they've probably decided at this point that Saren is insane, and as Shepard can point out to Kaidan at one point, it certainly wouldn't be unusual by human standards for the Council to keep hoping this is a false alarm even when the evidence starts to pile up. I think what's maybe the most discordant is that, if the Council survives, they sound thoroughly convinced at the end of ME1 but then apparently backtrack. It might have made more sense to have them still be a little doubtful afterwards if they really find it plausible that Sovereign was a geth creation.
I think the Mass Effect series has had a problem in general with how politicians are portrayed. Almost without fail they are incompetent assholes who stand in the way of Shepard actually getting things done.
I get that people nowadays tend to be bit cynical in how they view their governments...but the series could benefit from a more balanced portrayal. It was more than a little over-the-top.
The DA series is much better in that regard.
Agreed. DA was much better with its politicians than ME.
The only time I liked the portrayal of ME politics was in the novel Revelation, which I read before ever playing the first game. I think the way Ambassador Goyle and the councilors try to manipulate each other is really well written by Drew and goes to show how much potential there is for interesting politics in stories in the ME universe. I was all the more disappointed how shallow the councilor's were in the game (and it got worse as the trilogy continued).
In ME1, the one Councilor that never seemed to be a jerk was Valern. It was mainly Sparatus that gave Shepard crap most of the time, which makes sense since turians and humans only recently became allies.
Yeah, because Valern never added anything useful. He only told you the mission Status and never expresses his opinion.
And of course, let's not forget the 37 million year old derelict reaper just sitting out there in space. It could be used as evidence, right?
And of course, let's not forget the 37 million year old derelict reaper just sitting out there in space. It could be used as evidence, right?
Bringing ME2 in a story discussion is less than ideal. However i ****** LOVE that face.
And of course, let's not forget the 37 million year old derelict reaper just sitting out there in space. It could be used as evidence, right?
TIM: "This Reaper shell is an amazing discovery for mankind. I'm going to send a group of gullible scientists there and not check up on them -- what's the worst that can happem?"
I never understood why Shepherd never used their omnitool to record some of the events that happen like Vigil. I think the council can be given some rope until the end of ME1. After studying the remains of Sovereign didn't put them on alert then they are useless which is the case up to the invasion. But in the Citadel DLC when in that vault from one of the recordings it does sound like they were believing in the threat behind closed doors. Not that it did any good.
@Kenshen, Vigil was no good for anyone except Shepard, Saren or Shiala because they had Cypher. Without it, it was just a VI giving only noise instead of any understandable information.
@Kenshen, Vigil was no good for anyone except Shepard, Saren or Shiala because they had Cypher. Without it, it was just a VI giving only noise instead of any understandable information.
Not true. Shepard's squadmates could understand it because it was speaking English (or whatever language they use in ME). Vigil said it had been studying their language since they entered and had somehow worked out every single word from the english language just from that. Don't ask me how.
Not true. Shepard's squadmates could understand it because it was speaking English (or whatever language they use in ME). Vigil said it had been studying their language since they entered and had somehow worked out every single word from the english language just from that. Don't ask me how.
Google Translate.
I don't blame them at all. It would be most frustrating for Shep to move forward in the face of opposition - but really, reapers? For us it would be like Zeus sending out thunderbolts from the top of Mt Olympus. For MEverse it's a true story that vanished into myth. Maybe one day we'll find out the sun is actually drawn across the sky in a carriage. I like the idea though, that myths could cycle through the world again. 
In ME1, the one Councilor that never seemed to be a jerk was Valern. It was mainly Sparatus that gave Shepard crap most of the time, which makes sense since turians and humans only recently became allies.
He's the one I hang up on 
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