56 réponses à ce sujet

[Vazgen]

First, I want to say that I absolutely love tech powers in Mass Effect games, Engineer and Infiltrator are easily my favorite classes Still, I think that tech powers in their current state are too magic-like. Projectile powers, Combat Drones that can damage enemies, omni-blades...

 

In my opinion, tech powers should be executed similarly to Tactical Scan power from MP, without exposing the user. However, this is pretty unbalanced. How do I suggest to balance it? This way: have a "recon drone" power, that hovers over the cover and provides clear line of sight to a target. This recon drone is susceptible only to enemy tech powers. However, when active, the recon drone greatly slows power cooldown (strain on omni-tool computer for maintaining the drone and executing powers through it). One can avoid using recon drone by establishing a direct link with the target (executed similarly to Tactical Scan). The link has a duration which will shorten up with every consequent use on the same target (similarly how targets gradually become immune to Sabotage). When the target is linked it becomes possible to use tech powers on it such as - overloading shields, hacking, disabling hardsuit VI assistance (accuracy penalty), downloading intel (equivalent of pickpocketing). Linking to a target is a stealthy action, activating a certain program is not and has a chance to alert the enemy, depending on the omni-tool upgrades you've chosen/crafted. When the drone is active, it can chain the attack to multiple enemies (number depends on recon drone upgrades) whom you've tagged, similarly to the latest Splinter Cell games. Omni-tool visual effect stays active if you run, shoot or basically perform any action when having a linked target (similarly to Recon Mine from MP). 

Both the recon drone and scan are available via new "omni-tool button". Holding the button summons the drone, pressing it once links one highlighted target.

Omni-blades should be removed and replaced with regular blades (like Tali's boot knife). Projectile powers should also be removed, as well as summoning powers. Creating a turret of nothingness is quite odd. Same goes for a combat drone which looks like hologram but somehow manages to damage enemies. 

Enemy Engineers can also link your omni-tool and perform all the tasks you can. You can combat that by upgrading your omni-tool with firewall upgrades which either greatly reduce the time spent linked or repel the attack altogether (based on enemy level and omni-tool state - you're more susceptible to being linked when using powers). So, what the enemy can do? Destroy your shields, remove targeting assistance, put all your tech powers on cooldown (like Damping in ME1) forcing you to use weapons.

 

So, what do you think?

[rlilewis]

I agree they do feel too similar to biotic characters; instead of firing blue space magic you instead fire orange space magic. I think they should require some kind of "ammo" to use their abilities since their abilities are not drawn from their bodies energy reserves like a biotic person. Nanomachines maybe?

 

I think tech should be split into 4 categories:

 

Biology

 * Bringing a line of tech that would allow for the original ME medic to make a returm

 * Direct heals, heal over time, ranged resurection, health fortification, pain resistance

 * Or damaging abilities like viruses and poisons

Chemistry

 * Fire, ice, shock and acid attacks fairly similar to ME2/ME3 engineer

Mechanical & Electrical Engineering

 * Allow the engineer to have a more permanent physical (not a timed holographic) robot pet following them around

 * Deploy turrets and shield generators similar to Cerberus engineers; also ammo dispensers

 * I'm kinda thinking along the lines of a TF2 engineer, so the turrets, robots, shield gens etc should be upgradable mid battle

 * Abilities to repair the above

Electronic & Computer Engineering

 * Forcing enemy omnitools to run viruses to hack robots, overloading shields, overheating weapons and locking tech powers

 * Boosting ally shields, optimizing their weapons and tech power cooldowns

[Vazgen]

I like the idea of multiple specializations, seems reminiscent of Dragon Age: Origins magic schools. Tech powers were always about removing enemy protection layers and debuffing them so I'm not really on board with elemental attacks. Shield generators are a bit weird for me - it's odd when a character pulls out a shield generator out of nowhere (N7 engineer class in MP). However, I can see it working if you are limited to just one generator which you can pack, unpack and repair. Medic idea is nice, since you can access hardsuit VI of your squadmates and use Medi-Gel remotely.

[KrrKs]

Hmm, I'd like if things like Overload and Incinerate stay, to keep a bit of connection between the titles.

These powers could work similar to their ME1 counterparts again, where they were actually triggered by miniature 'grenades', fired by the omni-tool.

 

I like the idea of a recon-drone and using it for powers like sabotage. But IMO, this drone should 'fly' high above the battlefield (I hope we get bigger ones in the next ME)

and also provide a general tactical overview.

 

I concur that turrets should be more in-line with the Cerberus backpack version. Together with the recon drone, one evolution of this turret could enable Artillery like beyond-visual-range fire.

[Vazgen]

Like a satellite in Civ. Beyond Earth?

Spoiler

Enemies should be able to destroy it IMO, to stop players from using it constantly. 

I don't really want turrets because they are either too powerful (Cerberus turrets) or too weak (Sentry turret). I don't see a way to make them balanced

[SporkFu]

Combat drones are absolute perfection just the way they are. Leave them alone 

[Vazgen]

Combat drones are absolute perfection just the way they are. Leave them alone 

They are magical

[SporkFu]

They are magical

Yes. Yes they are. 

[Guanxii]

I like the idea of having to scan targets first to find out their protections/vulnerabilities, though not sure about having a limited window unless it's fairly forgiving - getting progressively harder on higher difficulties.

What I want most of all to differentiate biotic and tech classes are upgradeable /customisable omni-tools and biotic amps. Each class is different for example soldiers can spend their credits on weapons and mods while vanguards and infiltrators would have to compromise between weapons and gear. sentinels would need both a biotic amp and an omni tool which would naturally lead to interesting compromises while engineers and adepts should spend most of their money/resources on omni tools or biotic amps to the detriment of weapons if they want to master their classes which would be another limiting factor on weapon choice in addition to weight/cooldown - pistols/SMGs clearly being the cheaper options for those classes.

I also want to see the return of dampening from ME1 to temporarily disable particularly deadly biotic and tech enemies - mostly bosses. Make it the biotic/tech equivalent of sabotage backfire.

[Vazgen]

Customization plays a large part in this system. It allows to balance the game and make you more efficient while still leaving room for the enemies to affect you. I think ME special enemies got progressively easier through the trilogy. Compare

ME1: Biotics and engineers can use the same powers you can with the same effect

ME2: Biotics only use Warp, engineers only use Incinerate and Combat Drone

ME3: No biotics, engineers set up turrets and become regular soldiers afterwards

I'd like to see biotics and engineers from the first game return

[ImaginaryMatter]

I would make the tech abilities more useful for interacting with the level (this would require a massive overhaul of the level design, converting linear corridors to more open set pieces that have multiple ways to reach an objective) instead of another flavor of combat. Their strength would be hacking computers, bypassing security systems, repairing electronics, etc.

 

There would be a few abilities to assist directly in combat and those abilities would be something more akin to the first game's tech mines (those little things Shepard throws) and abilities, rather than harnessing the elements. The drone would be kept but it would operate much differently, being a permanent spawn with a wider arrange of abilities that could be destroyed, making it unusable for the rest of the mission.

[Vazgen]

I'm totally on board with level interaction. In fact, having different paths to completing the objective with some being class-specific is on my "top wanted" list I would not want for tech character to become a pure support class though, in my mind they should be able to handle themselves on their own. That is tied with my desire of being able to choose how many squadmates do I want to come with me (similar to Origins). If that can impact different pathways it would be cool as well, like 3 person squad being more easily detected by security systems than the protagonist alone etc.

[Guanxii]

I would make the tech abilities more useful for interacting with the level (this would require a massive overhaul of the level design, converting linear corridors to more open set pieces that have multiple ways to reach an objective) instead of another flavor of combat. Their strength would be hacking computers, bypassing security systems, repairing electronics, etc.

There would be a few abilities to assist directly in combat and those abilities would be something more akin to the first game's tech mines (those little things Shepard throws) and abilities, rather than harnessing the elements. The drone would be kept but it would operate much differently, being a permanent spawn with a wider arrange of abilities that could be destroyed, making it unusable for the rest of the mission.

If each level had at least one alternate path which required specialist skills from one of the classes that would be a great first step. For example:

Engineer/infiltrator alt path: unlock encrypted doors or hack a synthetic to unlock a door you can't get to. Additional obstacles involve area hacking multiple sentry turrets which would be otherwise instant death for other classes.

Vanguard alt path: charge/poison strike to impossibly far ledge or go through walls to get to secret areas/paths. Attempting such a path without teleport dodge would again be a death sentence for others - e.g. Infinite phantom spam in a maze.

Solider: this one would be more difficult to come up with. Perhaps only soldiers are trained to use heavy weapons like the Cain required to clear certain types of path, e.g. too thick to teleport through. Or an objective that requires adrenaline rush a.k.a. bullet time - like you're at a party with heavy security without armor or backup and you only have a silenced pistol and you have to kill someone before they can escape. Or using bullet time to help you with moving targets at a distance in helicopter turret/rocket sections which would be much harder for other classes in real time.

Adepts: this ones a no brainer... tossing around physics objects to solve puzzles. Not puzzle-y puzzles but more natural inventive solutions to current objectives using physics.

 

Sentinels: like the adepts but with an additional layer of tech thrown in for good measure.

[Vazgen]

Soldier might have unique dialogue lines instead of alternate path to the objective. IMO Soldier is the most head-on class, he doesn't need alternate paths, he is powerful enough to get straight to the objective. Simply having people comment on that will accomplish that sense of uniqueness.

[Guanxii]

Soldier might have unique dialogue lines instead of alternate path to the objective. IMO Soldier is the most head-on class, he doesn't need alternate paths, he is powerful enough to get straight to the objective. Simply having people comment on that will accomplish that sense of uniqueness.

 

Dialogue checks for all classes would be welcome. How about only soldiers are trained to operate heavy weapons like the Cain for optional objectives, e.g. destroying a bridge or a communications tower, etc. Perhaps trained soldiers have additional squad tactical options not available to other classes which makes certain paths much easier to navigate for them without risking the lives of their squad-members.

[Vazgen]

Dialogue checks for all classes would be welcome. How about only soldiers are trained to operate heavy weapons like the Cain for optional objectives, e.g. like destroying a bridge, etc.

That would be nice I have my doubts about the return of heavy weapons though. It's not like they were greatly missed in ME3

[ImaginaryMatter]

Soldier might have unique dialogue lines instead of alternate path to the objective. IMO Soldier is the most head-on class, he doesn't need alternate paths, he is powerful enough to get straight to the objective. Simply having people comment on that will accomplish that sense of uniqueness.

 

The way I was thinking the soldier would mostly be a meathead and would be reliant on squadmates to provide tech/biotic power. The benefits would mostly be purely gunplay based (ability carry all weapons, less recoil, heavy weapons, etc). There would be a few dialogue perks; like, for example, in LotSB when Vasir holds that woman hostage and Shepard has the choice to shoot the hostage. Only the Soldier would have the marksmanship to not kill the hostage when shooting her, while the other classes would fatally would the hostage.

[Guanxii]

The way I was thinking the soldier would mostly be a meathead and would be reliant on squadmates to provide tech/biotic power. The benefits would mostly be purely gunplay based (ability carry all weapons, less recoil, heavy weapons, etc). There would be a few dialogue perks; like, for example, in LotSB when Vasir holds that woman hostage and Shepard has the choice to shoot the hostage. Only the Soldier would have the marksmanship to not kill the hostage when shooting her, while the other classes would fatally would the hostage.

 

Those types of dialogue check/options are the best. I'd also love to have an independent speech skill again for all classes.

[KrrKs]

I'm not totally set on making an Engineer/Tech powers dependant on the surrounding.

Considering that the next ME is more about 'exploration' (to whatever extend), I expect a lot more encounters with wildlife than in the trilogy.

Without some 'direct fire' powers or damaging 'pets', and Engineer could be easily the weakest class in such encounters.

[Vazgen]

I'm not totally set on making an Engineer/Tech powers dependant on the surrounding.
Considering that the next ME is more about 'exploration' (to whatever extend), I expect a lot more encounters with wildlife than in the trilogy.
Without some 'direct fire' powers or damaging 'pets', and Engineer could be easily the weakest class in such encounters.

True, but you still have your guns. And frankly, isn't that what Engineer is all about? Shining against tech but weak against organics?

[NM_Che56]

Add dubstep sound effects to all tech powers.

[Farangbaa]

Add dubstep sound effects to all tech powers.

 

HAHA. I'd instantly buy the game.

 

 

Offtopic:

Ok, so who broke the forum?

[SwobyJ]

When it comes to the combat in the next games:

 

Combat - I want these moves slightly evolved. We have a great foundation with the trilogy, and the devs can just expand on this. Guns, rockets, armors and built-in barriers, better tech for our weapons and our bodies. Think the theme of ME2 (even though you could research, and outright upgrade Shepard with more tech, it was all for the sake of better direct combat).

 

Biotics - I want these moves somewhat evolved. Bring back much more biotic physics. I want the range of powers that we have in ME3, but now with much more physical impact. I want to warp the whole environment, not just shoot out a little warp thing that does DOTs. I'm not asking for the most ultramegaawesome powers, but I want more than the run-and-gun focus of ME3.

 

Tech - I want these moves significantly evolved.. though I dunno if the next game is the right time for this. Whether for this game or after it, I'll ultimately want tech abilities and classes to stand out as very very different from biotics or combat. I want a whole other playstyle that may be more hack focused, or stealth focused, or about debilitating the enemy in ways that we've never seen yet. I don't want to just send out drones, but in fact (again at some point) be able to reform the environment itself to create allies. I want to use nanomachines to create clones of the enemy to counter them, not just make decoys like EDI does. I understand the evolution of tech to be a gradual thing though, and I don't expect it all in the next game. I'll settle for Tech just being more distinguished, and biotics to be more interesting.

[Vazgen]

I think you'll get what you ask for, at least in case of biotics Frostbite engine allows a lot of environment manipulation and is perfect for revamping biotics. What I'd like to see is the return of biotic enemies from ME1. So you're not the only one able to put a singularity in the middle of a squad

[ImaginaryMatter]

I hope biotics return to something more akin to ME1, where they feel more visceral and have an effect on the environment (boy do I miss sucking a bunch of mooks into a Singularity with boxes, explosive canisters, and more mooks; and then bust the thing open with a grenade). I also hope they take away the biotic combos, I would rather have my PullLift/Throw combo turn my enemies into astronauts than make a big purple boom. Also, on my wish list I hope they add a biotic ability that is the opposite of Lift, where instead of lifting them off the ground it crushes them under tremendous gravity.

 

Tech - I want these moves significantly evolved.. though I dunno if the next game is the right time for this. Whether for this game or after it, I'll ultimately want tech abilities and classes to stand out as very very different from biotics or combat. I want a whole other playstyle that may be more hack focused, or stealth focused, or about debilitating the enemy in ways that we've never seen yet. I don't want to just send out drones, but in fact (again at some point) be able to reform the environment itself to create allies. I want to use nanomachines to create clones of the enemy to counter them, not just make decoys like EDI does. I understand the evolution of tech to be a gradual thing though, and I don't expect it all in the next game. I'll settle for Tech just being more distinguished, and biotics to be more interesting.

 

My idea for tech was to make it more of a way to interact with the environment, like the Mass Effect version of Lockpicking, Stealth, Pickpocketing, etc rather than combat. Tech skills would still be usable but they would be more gimmicky, hacking sentry turrets to mow down the mooks that set them up and critically detonating fuel canisters.

 

My idea for the combat would be to make it less about actual combat. Instead of a series of linear corridors where the main character and two of his friends shoot up everyone in their way, the level design would instead be a start point and an objective with various obstacles that the player can choose to talk, stealth, hack, or shoot through. The point being that characters with different classes, morality, aptitudes, etc can choose how to act in gameplay outside of dialogue trees.