56 réponses à ce sujet

[Farangbaa]

Take out biotic combos?
 

[Guanxii]

Double post - sorry on a phone

[Guanxii]

^I do have a pronounced habit of derailing threads but biotics and tech powers without combos sounds like snoop dogg without dre - falling into the dear god no who though that was a good idea category.

Rather than remove them or castrate them perhaps it would be better if you have to specifically evolve powers and your passive skill to even trigger combos at all and if you want impressive combos you're gonna have focus on combos to the detriment of other things - combo builds could be just one viable strategy of many.

Another player strategy could be a more direct damage path on powers and passives which might undermine the effectiveness of combos, another path/possibility could be focused on cooldown reduction which could be a bit of a hybrid of both or you could even have more specific evolutions for debuffing/weapons builds, e.g. applying a secondary warp effect to all your powers. You could even apply a secondary reave effect for possible damage reduction builds which might also impact the effectiveness of damage or combos or both. Of course those kinds features would be nice for vanguards.

As much as I like power combos and would like to see Bioware build upon them it would be nice if they weren't the be all and end all approach to playing caster classes.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Take out biotic combos?

 

I think they make biotics much less diverse. It basically reduces biotic abilities into two powers: Priming Powers and Detonating Powers.

 

I think the biotic abilities should have some diversity throwing enemies into space, manipulating objects, crowd control, etc.

 

This is more of a nitpick, but what is a biotic combo? Is it like gravity field manipulation resonance? I know Biotics have always been a space magicy, Mass Effect version of Jedi Powers but before they had some sort of handwave to somewhat ground them in the lore, now they're just very video gamey and it breaks my suspension in combat constantly.

 

Also, biotics in cutscenes. Adept Shep could have totally saved Victus's son with a Pull.

[Farangbaa]

I think they make biotics much less diverse. It basically reduces biotic abilities into two powers: Priming Powers and Detonating Powers.

 

I think the biotic abilities should have some diversity throwing enemies into space, manipulating objects, crowd control, etc.

 

This is more of a nitpick, but what is a biotic combo? Is it like gravity field manipulation resonance? I know Biotics have always been a space magicy, Mass Effect version of Jedi Powers but before they had some sort of handwave to somewhat ground them in the lore, now they're just very video gamey and it breaks my suspension in combat constantly.

 

Also, biotics in cutscenes. Adept Shep could have totally saved Victus's son with a Pull.

 

But all powers are like this in ME3, even grenade powers.

[Vazgen]

But all powers are like this in ME3, even grenade powers.

Like what? 

I agree about diversity for biotic powers, have not only prime/detonate routine but other useful applications like Pull and Throw launching enemies across the map... Powers like Warp and Dark Channel should still act as primers but fewer powers should act as detonators. To avoid situations like this

 

... but back to tech. What would you've changed in tech powers?

[Farangbaa]

Like what --> being reduced to primers and detonators.

Only exceptions being, from the top of my head, adrenaline rush. Even the ammo powers can be used for combos, and should be imo. One of the drones can also be used this way.

This doesn't mean I don't use Concussive Shot to knock people down, or pull to pull of shields (physical shields), but what ultimately makes me use a power a lot is it's usefulness in detonation.

[Vazgen]

Like what --> being reduced to primers and detonators.

Only exceptions being, from the top of my head, adrenaline rush. Even the ammo powers can be used for combos, and should be imo. One of the drones can also be used this way.

This doesn't mean I don't use Concussive Shot to knock people down, or pull to pull of shields (physical shields), but what ultimately makes me use a power a lot is it's usefulness in detonation.

Ah, I see. There are a few exceptions (Tactical Cloak ) but yes, you're right, the majority are focused on priming a detonating power combos. 

While it's good and quite fun, it also limits the possibilities with different powers. It's very apparent with biotics. In ME1 and ME2 you could combine different effects for a more powerful version of the last power. In ME3 all you get is an explosion. I think some signature combos like Pull+Throw should return.

I play on Insanity and power combos are very powerful and useful. In a lot of cases it makes you disregard possible tactical benefits of individual powers and focus on getting the corresponding explosion. 

[Farangbaa]

Lol yeah, I can write a strategy guide for ME3 in seconds:

prime, detonate, prime, detonate, prime, detonate.

And there are other difficulties than insanity?

[Vazgen]

Lol yeah, I can write a strategy guide for ME3 in seconds:

prime, detonate, prime, detonate, prime, detonate.

And there are other difficulties than insanity?

I've heard tales of people playing on Casual. Probably hogwash  

Today I tried to use Inferno Grenade as a bonus power for an Engineer with an assault rifle and Overload. Never before had I finished Mars mission so fast

[Farangbaa]

Just for laughs you should set the game to narrative for once and try to get killed.

I don't think it can be done.

[Vazgen]

Just for laughs you should set the game to narrative for once and try to get killed.

I don't think it can be done.

Will probably need a boss-type enemy. Maybe end section of Menae

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

All I know is, Tali's powers were hot garbage in ME2 and ME3.

[Guanxii]

Defense Drone was crap. Presumably even Tali is in agreement on this because she never uses it when squad power usage is on. To this day I don't really see the point of it.

---

 

Going back to this idea of having a choice between direct damage OR tech combo damage for an engineer:

 

Combo damage engineer could be a master saboteur meaning to do equivalent shield damage on a target to a direct damage engineer they would have to prime first with sabotage to detonate a tech burst large enough to strip the shield with overload, while a direct damage engineer only needs overload.

 

A tech power evolved for pure damage without a tech combo might let you apply an alternative secondary effect. The trade off would be that combining sabotage tech vulnerability with overload on bosses for example would be a lot less effective for a pure damage character because the tech burst/combinatorial effect would be much weaker than the combo engineers' but they both do fairly comparable damage overall due to pure overloads greater overall damage.

 

The overall benefit of using tech bursts over direct damage would be that chain tech explosions (if you can pull them off) are potentially much more effective vs groups, while a direct damage overload spec'd for area would just stun 2 other targets and do diminishing jump damage within a limited range. Chain tech busts (explosions) could meanwhile do uniform damage over a (potentially much larger) area determined by your passive combo multiplier stat(s).

 

However in practice a combo build would be entirely situational because additional tech bursts in a chain would require new sources of shielding meaning the effectiveness would be limited on lower difficulties, e.g. 3 targets with only 1 shield would only detonate one tech burst. On insanity where everything is shielded combo engineers would really shine. The size of the explosion should be determined by the source * (primer * detonator) - e.g. an atlas is a much better source than a guardian.

[Farangbaa]

All I know is, Tali's powers were hot garbage in ME2 and ME3.

 

Lol no way man. Tali (and Liara) are combo machines with their ridiculously low cooldowns in ME3.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Lol no way man. Tali (and Liara) are combo machines with their ridiculously low cooldowns in ME3.

See the post directly above yours about Defense Drone. Also... Tali has the lamest tech powers. Overload and sentry turret seem infinitely more useful.

[Farangbaa]

See the post directly above yours about Defense Drone. Also... Tali has the lamest tech powers. Overload and sentry turret seem infinitely more useful.

 

How is Overload any better than Engergy Drain? Both can be detonated, both strip the entire room of shields if done so. Energy Drain boosts her shields in the process so is probably even better than Overload. She also has Sabotage, which is quite useful and can be detonated.

 

Add to this her 125% cooldown reduction (outfit + class power) and you get a beast of a techie on your squad. And 175% cooldown reduction on combat drone as well, dropping it below 2 seconds. (I think, not sure)

 

Even if you think her powers aren't super mega awesome, you can still spam them all the time, making her very, very useful.  

 

Would've been nice if she'd had some grenade power instead of defense drone though. 

[Vazgen]

Tali with Sabotage and Energy Drain powers is awesome. I'm not really sold on drone powers in her arsenal, but those two powers work great

[Kaicel]

I actually really appreciate how the Engineer class has evolved, so no. Where it stands, it's an excellent counterpart to biotics for those preferring tech. And with power combos, debuffing skills, and cc pets, I think it's a very solid and diverse class. I understand OP's intent for a more unique class harkening back to ME1 and that's a great idea. However, from his/her idea, perhaps it's more suited for Infiltrators since they feel more like a buffed version of Engineers rather than stealthy agents setting up the environment/firefight to the player's advantage.

[Oni Changas]

No.


At this entire thread.

[Oni Changas]

Double post.

[Vazgen]

I actually really appreciate how the Engineer class has evolved, so no. Where it stands, it's an excellent counterpart to biotics for those preferring tech. And with power combos, debuffing skills, and cc pets, I think it's a very solid and diverse class. I understand OP's intent for a more unique class harkening back to ME1 and that's a great idea. However, from his/her idea, perhaps it's more suited for Infiltrators since they feel more like a buffed version of Engineers rather than stealthy agents setting up the environment/firefight to the player's advantage.

I'm not suggesting removing tech combos, they will most certainly stay. My main idea was to remove or change powers that seem more magic than tech. For example, omni-blades. Codex entry says:

"The most common melee design is the "omni-blade," a disposable silicon-carbide weapon flash-forged by the tool's mini-fabricator. The transparent, nearly diamond-hard blade is created and suspended in a mass effect field safely away from the user's skin. Warning lights illuminate the field so the searing-hot blade only burns what it is intended to: the opponent."

I find it hard to view this description as plausible, especially after playing a melee infiltrator class which forced (according to this description) the omni-tool's mini-fabricator to make diamond-hard blades with warning lights every few seconds. 

Or Incinerate which is not even explained. How do you launch unlimited fire projectiles that track their targets and travel long distances?

In my mind, magic is better reserved for biotics. Tech powers should feel more like you're a technician, not like you're a space mage with the power of the elements at your fingertips.

 

No.


At this entire thread.

Why not?

[sunnydxmen]

i hate this idea all horrible combat drone in turrret need to stay they are tech powers this idea is so yucky in gross.

[Vazgen]

i hate this idea all horrible combat drone in turrret need to stay they are tech powers this idea is so yucky in gross.

This was... very deep...

[sunnydxmen]

what we need is different way for the drones to explode i say when they explode they either freeze enemies slowing them down or totally freezing them then to be shattered, or a emp burst thats stops guns in tech powers from working in finally flame burst casuing damage over time in panic cause who dont panic while on fire. we also need some new moves aswell.