36 réponses à ce sujet

[bluebullets]

do you side with the nice and honorable failure, or the power hungry pr*** that is a better king?

 

Always been tough for me. (obviously if you're a dwarf noble, it is easier, but as something else, what do you choose?)

[DracoAngel]

Ever since I had seen the fate of Orzammar and Harrowmont, I now always side with Bhelen. Even if he is an @$$, he is better for the city than Harrowmont, and that is my main concern

[Ferretinabun]

My first time? Harrowmont. No reason - he was just the one I happened to side with initially. I picked almost at random. 

 

Canonically? Behlen. For family reasons - my cannon warden is a Dwarf Commoner.

 

Other playthroughs vary. But I pick Behlen more often than not. From a metagaming perspective his epilogue slides tie in rather logically with the ones about Kal'Hirol from Awakenings. 

[TheMadHarridan]

Bhelen most of the time because he's better in the long run for the Dwarves. Once in a while I side with Harrowmont just for variety's sake.

[Revelat0]

Bhelen most of the time because he's better in the long run for the Dwarves. Once in a while I side with Harrowmont just for variety's sake.

I think you mean in the short term, he represents an effective solution to the Dwarves intimidate issues, where as after he dies and the next king takes the thrown we might end up with a, forgive the Roman metaphor, "Nero" were Bhelen represents "Augustus". I looked at it this way, 1000 tyrants 1 mile away or 1 tyrant 1000 miles away? It is easier for the people of Orzammar to depose of one dictator than 100s of oligarchs (Deshyrs). I selected Bhelen to weaken Orzammar's political continuity so that their people could eventually rise up. And in the mean time eliminate the status quo.

[Basher of Glory]

The first time, when I didn't know about the consequences, of course Harrowmont.

 

Later, when I've seen, what happens.... well, Harrowmont. I couldn't overcome my disgust for Bhelen.

[Han Shot First]

Bhelen. He might a usurper, kinslayer, kingslayer, and tyrant...but he's also the better king. 

[Silver Souls]

I always chose Harrowmont, never used Bhelen cause I never knew what he would do.

[Elhanan]

Personally, I have only chosen Bhelen once with a Dwarven Commoner Warden, as it seemed to aid his sister. All of my other Warden's chose Harrowmont as he is a better man, or is easier to manipulate in the case of my Evil Warden.

And in the case when I chose Bhelen, my head canon saved Harrowmont's life, and moved him to the surface. This is supported by the peaceful demeanor of his supposed widow. No body; no foul.

[tevikolady]

Honestly, this is a tosser for me.

 

On one hand, Harrowmont was hand picked by the King to succeed him (proof you never uncover) but he is honest and trustworthy.  Honestly, my first play through I was always a little scared that Bhelen would betray me.  It is often customary to respect the wishes of the dead, in this case, the King's desire that Harrowmont replace him instead of his son, but that leads us to the other side of the coin...

Bhelen is a pr*ck as people have stated.  However, to quote Flemeth, Bhelen would not be the first king to lie, cheat steal or kill his way into a crown.  Also, as blood heir, and the lineage passed down from blood heir to blood Heir, and no proof at all of Harrowmont's claims, the likliest decision is to put Bhelen on the throne.  I jus really hate that he kills harrowmont who could have made an excellent advisor

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

My first playthrough, I chose Harrowmont. I chose him hesitantly, and primarily because Harrowmont's initial quest was less involved than Bhelen's dungeon crawl seemed like it would be. I also made sure to make a backup save before starting these quests. (All of this might make more sense if I told you that I'd half suspected that Bhelen was going to prove to be the better choice despite his obviously evil nature.) I didn't end up using that save when I learned of the trick, however, because the trick doesn't become obvious until you compare their epilogues and I hadn't read of it in the walkthroughs until I'd already played through more of the game than I felt like redoing over this.

 

 

And in the case when I chose Bhelen, my head canon saved Harrowmont's life, and moved him to the surface. This is supported by the peaceful demeanor of his supposed widow. No body; no foul.

I don't think it's supported by the sequel, however.

[Elhanan]

I don't think it's supported by the sequel, however.

Certainly; both opponents and allies all believe that Harrowmont is dead. But ask his 'widow' afterwards in DAO, and she is as pleasant as always. Continuing on to DA2, everyone still believes he has perished, but he still acts in secret for his people while on the surface. And for those that may wish it, he also gains a lot more understanding and empathy for Surface Dwarves, their vital role in economics, as well as all of humankind.

Head canon and a little imagination is a wonderful thing.

[Kenshen]

Long live King Bhelen

[Frocharocha]

Altrough Bhelen is a turant, he does this to unite Orzammar and create stronger relationships with the surface world, allowing the kingdom to florish again. Harramownt closes Orzammar from the surface and dies quickly after.

 

So you have tho choose between the Greater Good or The Necessary Good.

[Elhanan]

Altrough Bhelen is a turant, he does this to unite Orzammar and create stronger relationships with the surface world, allowing the kingdom to florish again. Harramownt closes Orzammar from the surface and dies quickly after.
 
So you have tho choose between the Greater Good or The Necessary Good.

Or like myself, one can choose to select the better man, though he may not be the better provider in the long run. Setting aside foreknowledge, Bhelen is a murderous, deceitful Nug of a man, which is only disrespectful to actual Nugs everywhere.

[Andres Hendrix]

I can never actually bring myself to put Bhelen in power when I play DA:O, because he is such a douchey sociopath. However, he is pragmatically the better choice for the surface (yet I do have a fear that eventualy, if Bhelen is crazy enough, he might try to attack the surface), as he wishes to build some relations with the surface Kingdoms. So in the Keep, I made Bhelen king lol. Nevertheless, I can never play that out in Origins.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

So you have tho choose between the Greater Good or The Necessary Good.

... You're going to have to clarify this last sentence. I really don't see how Harrowmont is either. If you meant that Harrowmont is less tyrannical, but that Bhelen is necessary, then I'd point out that while Harrowmont does not rule with an iron hand he allows the noble caste as a whole to do so. And they do so: one of Harrowmont's only actual accomplishments (which given his stated policies is to some degree the Assembly's as well) is tightening caste restrictions, making the city as a whole less free rather than more. So unless Bioware decides that the "epilogue slides are rumors" thing applies here, I don't see much of an argument for Harrowmont except in roleplay.

[Mykel54]

Here is how you do it: You chose Bhelen because of the epilogue.

 

Then you rationalize the hell out of it in order to justify your warden picking him.

 

Just do it, everyone else does.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Here is how you do it: You chose Bhelen because of the epilogue.

 

Then you rationalize the hell out of it in order to justify your warden picking him.

 

Just do it, everyone else does.

It gets easier the more you do it.

[Bhryaen]

It's the whole "the lesser evil is still evil" thingy. Bhelen's the lesser evil in nearly every respect in terms of ultimate outcomes of the choice... but they both suck. Orzammar is doomed, and that's the way the writers prefer it. Gotta justify some reason for humans to prevail over the other races, right?

 

But Bhelen is a smarmy ass whose condescension to your Warden and flagrant duplicity hardly inspire compatriotism, so don't expect a sugar coating on his lesser-evilness. I'd rather pick my own DN warden.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I'd rather pick my own DN warden.

I wish that was an option too.

[Elhanan]

I wish that was an option too.

Becoming a living Paragon while dear brother was interred within the Assembly was good enough for me.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Becoming a living Paragon while dear brother was interred within the Assembly was good enough for me.

Is it good enough for Orzammar? The whole city, I mean, not just the nobility.

[Elhanan]

Is it good enough for Orzammar? The whole city, I mean, not just the nobility.

Well, considering in many campaigns that the entire Assembly was going to have to get replaced, as Bhelen often stood center of the SotC which engulfed almost the entire room, I would say the the Dusters had a better chance of gaining representation than before.

But Bhelen was not needed for such change to occur; am rather pleased that as a living Paragon, the Warden may have had some influence towards reform.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well, considering in many campaigns that the entire Assembly was going to have to get replaced, as Bhelen often stood center of the SotC which engulfed almost the entire room, I would say the the Dusters had a better chance of gaining representation than before.

But Bhelen was not needed for such change to occur; am rather pleased that as a living Paragon, the Warden may have had some influence towards reform.

Except that neither of these is supported by the epilogue slides to the best of my memory. The casteless gain no power and lose what little freedom they had under Harrowmont, and gain some degree of freedom under Bhelen and I can't remember anything that being a dwarf does to change this. If this is headcanon, fine, but unless Inquisition changes things I don't think there's any case to be made that it actually happens.