334 réponses à ce sujet

[thesuperdarkone2]

The Rite doesn't do that. 

Tranquil didn't seem to care about Ser Alrik raping them. In fact, there was that mage in the Gallows whose lover was made Tranquil and she said that she didn't care about the mage anymore and belonged to Ser Alrik. 

[Lulupab]

The Rite doesn't do that. 

 

It does, written in WOT and confirmed by Gaider. The tranquil cannot feel this "worse than death" feeling we are talking about as they cannot feel anything of the sort. The tranquil do no possess the desire to object unless its absolutely wrong on a logical aspect. There are no example given but I think things such as asking the tranquil to commit suicide apply. Also they almost NEVER object authority, even if they are being raped by them as we see it in DA2.

 

There is only one tranquil who we see is temporarily cured and he express the exact feeling. Admittedly its one person but you should be ready if its confirmed that in fact tranquils don't want to go back to tranquility if they can leave the state temporarily.

[Br3admax]

Tranquil still retain free will. They didn't stop Alrik because he was in a position of power over them. Things like this happen to people every day, of every week, of every month, of every year, and yet they still retain free will. Rape is one of the least reported crimes, and for a lot of reasons. 

[raging_monkey]

I've heard that Qamek, the Qunari poison for brainwashing is similar to the Rite. And they have collars which prevent mages from accessing their powers (Redemption, as demonstrated by Tallis).

qamek does something like but say which is the worse is up to the reader

[Br3admax]

It does, written in WOT and confirmed by Gaider. The tranquil cannot feel this "worse than death" feeling we are talking about as they cannot feel anything of the sort. 

So therefore the state isn't worse than death. Again, that only proves the cure was the cause. 

[Lulupab]

Tranquil still retain free will. They didn't stop Alrik because he was in a position of power over them. Things like this happen to people every day, of every week, of every month, of every year, and yet they still retain free will. Rape is one of the least reported crimes, and for a lot of reasons. 

 

They have free will, they can have the thought of leaving the circle and they actually can as they are not mages anymore. But they cannot object and will never oppose their superiors, whoever they are. The point being raised here is this is very similar to lobotomy. Lobotomy also doesn't affect free will.

[Br3admax]

Lobotomies do a variety of things, unlike the Rite. The Tranquil are not separated from their thinking process, their functionality sans the emotional complexities, and they don't have multitudes of medical problems afterwards. Tranquil stay in the Tower because they realise that they will be accepted nowhere else. They don't stay because someone tells them too. And they didn't stop Alrik because he was in a position to kill them, given that Templars were not watched as well in Kirkwall. Abuses of power happen in literally every system everywhere. If you want to stop using them because someone abuses it, then we'd all never do anything. 

[Lulupab]

Lobotomies do a variety of things, unlike the Rite. The Tranquil are not separated from their thinking process, their functionality sans the emotional complexities, and they don't have multitudes of medical problems afterwards. Tranquil stay in the Tower because they realise that they will be accepted nowhere else. They don't stay because someone tells them too. And they didn't stop Alrik because he was in a position to kill them, given that Templars were not watched as well in Kirkwall. Abuses of power happen in literally every system everywhere. If you want to stop using them because someone abuses it, then we'd all never do anything. 

 

That's fine and all but I don't see why advocate not developing tranquility cure to only remove magic, not emotions. Because as I said the tranquil will not object if its not logically fine, even if there is a slight thing they will not object. They cannot defend themselves and they cannot object, this actually raises temptation for abuse.

[raging_monkey]

I think whether tranquility is that bad is subjective. Some people put high value on their emotions, passion, dreams, etc.. 
 
I think I could live without it. I don't remember dreams. And my emotions have gotten me in trouble numerous times. I wish I was a Vulcan sometimes.
 
Maybe for some though, it's a fate worse than death.

ah star trek days of my childhood. Next generation, deep space 9, but my favorit is the original.. good old will

[MisterJB]

It does, written in WOT and confirmed by Gaider. The tranquil cannot feel this "worse than death" feeling we are talking about as they cannot feel anything of the sort. The tranquil do no possess the desire to object unless its absolutely wrong on a logical aspect. There are no example given but I think things such as asking the tranquil to commit suicide apply. Also they almost NEVER object authority, even if they are being raped by them as we see it in DA2.

 

There is only one tranquil who we see is temporarily cured and he express the exact feeling. Admittedly its one person but you should be ready if its confirmed that in fact tranquils don't want to go back to tranquility if they can leave the state temporarily.

 

You just admitted they have the capability to object.

 

Whether or not they would wish to return to the state is entirely irrelevant to this point.

[Lulupab]

You just admitted they have the capability to object.

 

Whether or not they would wish to return to the state is entirely irrelevant to this point.

 

"I" didn't do that. That's the how it works. A tranquil might not object rape just because logic tells them not to because the rapist might get sad. The fact that their entire being is based on what logical makes them very close to an AI than a person.

[MisterJB]

"I" didn't do that. That's the how it works. A tranquil might not object rape just because logic tells them not to because the rapist might get sad. The fact that their entire being is based on what logical makes them very close to an AI than a person.

 

You said:

 

 

It actually does on the most basic levels, for instance inability to object. 

 

And then you said:

 

 

The tranquil do no possess the desire to object unless its absolutely wrong on a logical aspect.

 

Hence why I said you had admitted they have the capacity to object.

 

And yes, you are correct in saying that they can only object based on logical aspects.

[Lulupab]

You said:

 

 

 

And then you said:

 

 

 

Hence why I said you had admitted they have the capacity to object.

 

And yes, you are correct in saying that they can only object based on logical aspects.

 

You mixed it up because you were not reading all of it. In lobotomy the patient (or victim) cannot object too, but they rarely can. This goes to back to equating lobotomy to tranquility which is not a wrong thing to do given the similarities. The tranquil's objection, specially versus authority is almost none-existent. The tranquil always obey the superiors unless it endangers their life as they still possess their desire to be alive and its logical.

 

Personally I haven't been disgusted by anything in video games this much. Either a development has to happen which only severe the magical connection and not the emotions and personality or I will do everything I can in the game to remove the practice of this "rite". 

[raging_monkey]

What if some willingly want to go through with it though? Being a mage isn't cool for everyone. Just like tranquility isn't. Neither one is going to have a normal life.

not a option. Its either harrowing or death. Its easier on the lyrium costs lol(i find death a more honourably option personally if i had to choose)

[Lulupab]

I certainly could make that exception if someone really wanted that.

[raging_monkey]

Not an option for you, but some have chosen it.

to me thats just pitiful imo but i do see the see the reasons

[herkles]

Cool. 

 

I don't think it's ideal either, but I'd keep the option open. From a certain perspective, being a mage sounds like crap. I don't think the game mechanics let us experience it the way the lore portrays it. The constant connection to the Fade, the pull of voices (both spirit and demon), having your foot in two worlds, being in danger of being sucked into that at moments of stress.. unless you have exceptional willpower. Some people would just want to give up and not bother. From our perspective as players and superbadass protagonists, it's all fun and games. And there's next to zero cost. Except a mana bar.

 

Incidently, this is part of why I tend not to play mages. I do not have to deal with all of the dangers that mages have to do. It also makes me wonder how players would have re-act if all this was part of playing a mage? 

[raging_monkey]

Incidently, this is part of why I tend not to play mages. I do not have to deal with all of the dangers that mages have to do. It also makes me wonder how players would have re-act if all this was part of playing a mage?

Incidently, this is part of why I tend not to play mages. I do not have to deal with all of the dangers that mages have to do. It also makes me wonder how players would have re-act if all this was part of playing a mage?

i would LOVE THAT!! Toss in the chance to become possesed i would be jumping on my couch like crazy while my dog looks at me like "master you are a dummy stop jumping on my bed"

[herkles]

i would LOVE THAT!! Toss in the chance to become possesed i would be jumping on my couch like crazy while my dog looks at me like "master you are a dummy stop jumping on my bed"

I think it would be fun, plus it would neccesite other features for the other classes. But then again we both seem to be roleplayers, and I doubt most people want to deal with it.

 

BTW fun fact I found out. All the story achievements for inquistion have the name from the chant of light verses

[raging_monkey]

I think it would be fun, plus it would neccesite other features for the other classes. But then again we both seem to be roleplayers, and I doubt most people want to deal with it.
 
BTW fun fact I found out. All the story achievements for inquistion have the name from the chant of light verses

true most dont wanna deal with it... id play warriors more if the lyrium addiction was used

If there one thing i wanna do inquisition... i want my battle cries to be qoutes from the chant, ala sam jackson from pulp fiction XD

[Master Warder Z_]

The rite is the ideal solution but not the final solution.

 

A better method would be able to instill the loyalty and logical thought process that comes from the removal of dreams and emotion while retaining magical ability.

 

Just imagine harnessing such power.

 

It would reshape the balance of power in the world; an army of unfeeling, pitiless magical artillery to march fearlessly wherever the Chantry wills it.

 

Even against other Mages; Alongside the Templars and the Chantry would finally have a proper army worthy of it.

 

The perfect defenders of the faith.

 

The Imperium, the Qunari, even Darkspawn could not hope to match such power; For Men, Qunari and Darskapwn feel fear,pain and emotional distress. It takes the emotion out of war, it takes all the frailities of the human mental condition out of war. And it replaces it with uber soldaten.