334 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

The rite is the ideal solution but not the final solution.

A better method would be able to instill the loyalty and logical thought process that comes from the removal of dreams and emotion while retaining magical ability.

Just imagine harnessing such power.

It would reshape the balance of power in the world; an army of unfeeling, pitiless magical artillery to march fearlessly wherever the Chantry wills it.

Even against other Mages; Alongside the Templars and the Chantry would finally have a proper army worthy of it.

The perfect defenders of the faith.

The Imperium, the Qunari, even Darkspawn could not hope to match such power; For Men, Qunari and Darskapwn feel fear,pain and emotional distress. It takes the emotion out of war, it takes all the frailities of the human mental condition out of war. And it replaces it with uber soldaten.

i... actually kinda agree with that kind of battle plan it would cut down on possible war crimes

[The Baconer]

The rite is the ideal solution but not the final solution.

 

A better method would be able to instill the loyalty and logical thought process that comes from the removal of dreams and emotion while retaining magical ability.

 

Just imagine harnessing such power.

 

It would reshape the balance of power in the world; an army of unfeeling, pitiless magical artillery to march fearlessly wherever the Chantry wills it.

 

Even against other Mages; Alongside the Templars and the Chantry would finally have a proper army worthy of it.

 

The perfect defenders of the faith.

 

The Imperium, the Qunari, even Darkspawn could not hope to match such power; For Men, Qunari and Darskapwn feel fear,pain and emotional distress. It takes the emotion out of war, it takes all the frailities of the human mental condition out of war. And it replaces it with uber soldaten.

 

Eh. I wouldn't call it a "final" solution by any stretch. It's not like Tranquility would inherently impart magical ability, nor does it mean that they function more effectively on a battlefield. They would certainly be more orderly and obedient, but also to a fault.

 

Also, Tranquil most certainly do feel pain, and self-preservation (perhaps above all).

[Master Warder Z_]

it's not like Tranquility would inherently impart magical ability

 

Why would it?

 

I merely wish to apply the emotional removing effects of the rite in this case to existing mages.

 

Also, Tranquil most certainly do feel pain.

 

They don't fear pain.

 

Nor do they feel fear period.

 

Hence the point.

 

If you present to them a logical reason for them to die en mass to achieve an objective then like red army cockroaches they will do so.

 

You know, with less NKVD shooting them in the back if they try to flee.

[HK-90210]

The rite is the ideal solution but not the final solution.

 

A better method would be able to instill the loyalty and logical thought process that comes from the removal of dreams and emotion while retaining magical ability.

 

Just imagine harnessing such power.

 

It would reshape the balance of power in the world; an army of unfeeling, pitiless magical artillery to march fearlessly wherever the Chantry wills it.

 

Even against other Mages; Alongside the Templars and the Chantry would finally have a proper army worthy of it.

 

The perfect defenders of the faith.

 

The Imperium, the Qunari, even Darkspawn could not hope to match such power; For Men, Qunari and Darskapwn feel fear,pain and emotional distress. It takes the emotion out of war, it takes all the frailities of the human mental condition out of war. And it replaces it with uber soldaten.

 

A bunch of living, unfeeling magical canons in the hand of the church? That's not a recipe for tyranny at all.

 

Besides, when your armies are unthinking semi-automatons, you've taken away the sacrifices required of the faithful. Without that, victory is war will mean little. See the Clone Wars.

[The Baconer]

I merely wish to apply the emotional removing effects of the rite in this case to existing mages.

 

I'd guess you'd need a progress to hand-pick the most ideal candidates then.

 

 

They don't fear pain.

 

They avoid situations that will cause them pain.

 

 

If you present to them a logical reason for them to die en mass to achieve an objective then like red army cockroaches they will do so.

 

At the same time, you could also present them a logical reason to switch sides.

[Master Warder Z_]

A bunch of living, unfeeling magical canons in the hand of the church? That's not a recipe for tyranny at all.

 

It isn't.

 

Its the surest path to fulfill the Maker's work.

 

Having unmatchable power at the beck and call of his servants.

 

I'd guess you'd need a progress to hand-pick the most ideal candidates then.

 

Agreed.

 

Not every mage would be suitable, for one they would need magical skill and talent, for another they would actually have to have some existing semblance of loyalty to the Chantry.

 

At the same time, you could also present them a logical reason to switch sides.

 

Which is why the Templars will still exist.

 

You don't have machines that run purely on logic unshackled period.

 

Whom is to say they will not get it into their heads that the Chantry causes as many problems as it resolves?

 

I'm not blind mind you, i see the possible risks, i just think having the shock troops will be worth it.

[The Baconer]

Which is why the Templars will still exist.

 

You don't have machines that run purely on logic unshackled period.

 

Whom is to say they will not get it into their heads that the Chantry causes as many problems as it resolves?

 

I'm not blind mind you, i see the possible risks, i just think having the shock troops will be worth it.

 

I wouldn't really put faith (heh) in the Templars' ability to reliably instill obedience on a battlefield, especially in situations where you'll apparently be sending them to die en masse.

[Master Warder Z_]

I wouldn't really put faith (heh) in the Templars' ability to reliably instill obedience on a battlefield, especially in situations where you'll apparently be sending them to die en masse.

 

Oh i wouldn't; the Templars Job wouldn't be to LEAD the armies, their job would be what it is in the modern age.

 

To ward over magic and mages, it would just include those within the armed forces under the Chantry now.

 

No the officers leading these forces would be a joint command made up of circle mages, templars and chantry officials.

 

With ultimate power being of course with the Chantry.

 

I just used the red army as an example, i'd prefer they not have quite that high an attrition rate to be honest.

[herkles]

I wonder if there could be another order of knights created? similar to how during the medieval era, you had several orders of monastic knights, the templars, hospitilars, templars, santiago, teutonic knights and so on. 

[HK-90210]

It isn't.

 

Its the surest path to fulfill the Maker's work.

 

Having unmatchable power at the beck and call of his servants.

 

And we can be sure that said servants remain dedicated to the Maker, and not a distorted version? I think you place too much on people, not enough on the Maker. The mandate is to spread His message, not to kill anyone who disagrees. If one has true faith in the Maker, then one knows that those who worship their false gods will fall, given time.

 

We don't need to hurry it up through tyranny that may lead more people to abandon Him, and set up the Chantry as the thing to be worshiped, rather than the Maker.

[Master Warder Z_]

I wonder if there could be another order of knights created?

 

Yes.

 

Another one of my ideas actually revolved around normal non templar soldiers employed by the Chantry.

 

A much larger, standing army mind you.

 

A papal army if you will.

[herkles]

Yes.

 

Another one of my ideas actually revolved around normal non templar soldiers employed by the Chantry.

 

A much larger, standing army mind you.

 

A papal army if you will.

 

 

this actually makes me wonder, does the divine have a guards that are not the templars.

 

Templars are useful, but they have their drawbacks. Not to mention they are focused on fighting mages and dealing with demons. Having an order of knights that are to protect the chantries and the faithful who don't use lyrium I would regard as rather useful even if they don't get neat powers. 

[The Baconer]

Oh i wouldn't; the Templars Job wouldn't be to LEAD the armies, their job would be what it is in the modern age.

 

To ward over magic and mages, it would just include those within the armed forces under the Chantry now.

 

No the officers leading these forces would be a joint command made up of circle mages, templars and chantry officials.

 

With ultimate power being of course with the Chantry.

 

I just used the red army as an example, i'd prefer they not have quite that high an attrition rate to be honest.

 

Oh, well.

 

In that case, I doubt the Tranquil-magic-mages will have the effect you're hoping for... especially if your aim is to use them as shock troops.

[Master Warder Z_]

especially if your aim is to use them as shock troops.

 

Mage Shock Troops *nods*

[Inquisitor Julianos]

The Tranquil's Actions are Based on Logic because that's all they can really rely on since their emotions and dreams are cut off, not to mention they've been severred from the Fade, and as such dont have magic. thats the big thing with the right of tranquility, no more magic.

[Master Warder Z_]

this actually makes me wonder, does the divine have a guards that are not the templars.

 

Probably not.

 

Still a few knightly orders bound to the Chantry likely would do it some good.

[The Baconer]

Mage Shock Troops *nods*

 

A position that your conventional mages excel at, surely.

[herkles]

I rather have non-templar knights over tranquil guys, but that is just me

[Daerog]

This is sounding like what the Confederacy did to criminals in StarCraft, messing with their mind to make them loyal soldiers.

 

The Chantry should be in the business of ideals, right? There should be no need in making super soldiers. They should just open communication with the Imperial Chantry, get some good will started, and be able to gain more knowledge of magic from them in order to better defend Thedas from the Qunari. Why not learn more about the Maker's gift? Of course, still straining the responsibility that comes with magic.

[Inquisitor Julianos]

This is sounding like what the Confederacy did to criminals in StarCraft, messing with their mind to make them loyal soldiers.

 

The Chantry should be in the business of ideals, right? There should be no need in making super soldiers. They should just open communication with the Imperial Chantry, get some good will started, and be able to gain more knowledge of magic from them in order to better defend Thedas from the Qunari. Why not learn more about the Maker's gift? Of course, still straining the responsibility that comes with magic.

HERETIC!

[herkles]

This is sounding like what the Confederacy did to criminals in StarCraft, messing with their mind to make them loyal soldiers.

 

The Chantry should be in the business of ideals, right? There should be no need in making super soldiers. They should just open communication with the Imperial Chantry, get some good will started, and be able to gain more knowledge of magic from them in order to better defend Thedas from the Qunari. Why not learn more about the Maker's gift? Of course, still straining the responsibility that comes with magic.

 

While I disagree with you partly, I do agree that the chantry, both of them, deals with ideals.I like divine justina's quote here “Idealism is our stock in trade, Lambert. A religion without ideals is tyranny.”

 

What I would love to see is a movement within the church like the cluny movement that occured in the catholic church during the middle ages. This was a movement started by monks that focused on fighting corruption, helping to streghthen the church and in general trying to improve the church all around. Something like this for the The chantry in Thedas would be an awesome arc

[Daerog]

HERETIC!

 

Bah, the Imperial Chantry > Andrastian/Orlesian Chantry.

 

Actually, Hessarian's Chantry > Imperial Chantry > Andrastian/Orlesian Chantry.... Tevinter just needs to knock those Altus houses down a peg again...

[Master Warder Z_]

This is sounding like what the Confederacy did to criminals in StarCraft, messing with their mind to make them loyal soldiers.

 

Exactly.

 

Torture, Drugs, Brain washing, whatever works, whatever builds the ideal soldier, whatever advances the cause of the church of Andraste.

 

The enemies of the faith have no qualms over their actions, no fathomable depths to their depravity, sometimes you must walk the road to hell to achieve heaven.-Enrico Maxwell

[herkles]

Exactly.

 

Torture, Drugs, Brain washing, whatever works, whatever builds the ideal soldier, whatever advances the cause of the church of Andraste.

 

The enemies of the faith have no qualms over their actions, no fathomable depths to their depravity, sometimes you must walk the road to hell to achieve heaven.-Enrico Maxwell

 

Lets just say that even my strongly pro-chantry quizzy would disagree harshly with that view. 

[The Baconer]

The enemies of the faith have no qualms over their actions, no fathomable depths to their depravity, sometimes you must walk the road to hell to achieve heaven.-Enrico Maxwell

 

That definitely ended well for Maxwell.