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[Daerog]

 

 

The four principals of the holy faith

 

I. Magic Pride is a corrupting influence in the world.

II. Humankind's sin of pride destroyed the Golden City and created the darkspawn, terrible embodiments of that sin.

III. Andraste was the bride of the Maker, a prophet and martyr whose ultimate sacrifice must be remembered and honored with pride.

IV. Humankind has sinned and must humbly seek penance to earn the Maker's forgiveness. When all people unite to praise the Maker, he will return to the world and make it a paradise.

 

 

Thank you lil yonce  for posting this from the world of thedas book

 

Fixed as well. 

 

 

Well, look who is trying to make a bridge between the Orlesian and Imperial Chantries.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It said she doesn't get addicted, not that they don't use lyrium at all.

Edit: added quote

There was also a Bioware employee who said the Seekers use a different method than the Templars if I recall correctly. 

[dragonflight288]

There was also a Bioware employee who said the Seekers use a different method than the Templars if I recall correctly. 

 

Yup, I mentioned this as well. It's in the Templar Support thread. I may dig it up and post the quote. 

[dragonflight288]

http://forum.bioware...6#entry17470012

 

I was wrong, it was in the Seeker/Templar thread, and I posted the link to the quote in the templar thread, but here's the link to the employee Lucas' own comments. 

[herkles]

Aww, you hurt my feelings. I'm only trying to bring truth to the confused southerners and help them reach the side of the Maker...

 

Come my brothers and sisters and enjoy the festivities, our holidays of Hessarian being brought to the Maker's side and the Visitations of Andraste to our faithful. Our celebrations are cooler because we openly do magic, you know you want to check 'em out! 

Here is a question. Being someone who has studied the medieval period a good bit, my minor was in medieval studies after all, I am curious for both chantries what sort of holy days exist? There could be quite a number celebrated in the medieval period, but not sure about thedas. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Here is a question. Being someone who has studied the medieval period a good bit, my minor was in medieval studies after all, I am curious for both chantries what sort of holy days exist? There could be quite a number celebrated in the medieval period, but not sure about thedas. 

Here: 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Holidays

[Daerog]

Here is a question. Being someone who has studied the medieval period a good bit, my minor was in medieval studies after all, I am curious for both chantries what sort of holy days exist? There could be quite a number celebrated in the medieval period, but not sure about thedas. 

 

 

Here: 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Holidays

 

Yep, and  "The anniversary of the death of Archon Hessarian is also treated as a religious holiday in Tevinter, and there is an additional feast day for the 'Visitations,' celebrating the appearance of Blessed Andraste in dreams to many mages as she crossed the Fade" (WoT, p. 125).

 

Also, chantries in Tevinter have a holiday and celebration when a spell is cast to renew their Eternal Flames. All chantries, "white" and Imperial have Eternal Flames that are kept burning by magic, it's just Tevinter that celebrates the magic part of it.

[herkles]

Here: 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Holidays

 

Thanks.

[herkles]

chant of light verse for the day

 

All men are the Work of our Maker's Hands,

From the lowest slaves

To the highest kings.

Those who bring harm

Without provocation to the least of His children

Are hated and accursed by the Maker. 

 

-Transfigurations1:4

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Those who bring harm

Heresy!!! You heretic speaks of foul word, it's Those who bring ham! and the Maker shall be Andraste's bacon and shield. Don't you heretic dare forget this verse.

Sister Theohild disapproves (-100)

[MisterJB]

Well, look who is trying to make a bridge between the Orlesian and Imperial Chantries.

To the Void with that, there can be only one!

Here is a torch. You burn your side of the bridge, I'll burn ours.

[MisterJB]

yes support the true chantry founded by Archon Hessarian. the most revered of all of Adrastes disciples

Are you even aware that Hessarian allowed the normal people of Tevinter to conduct purges on the Dreamers, made high positions within the Chantry exclusive to them and opened the Senate to them?

Hessarian is worthy of some accolades, it's the current mgisters who are ruining everything for everyone.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Are you even aware that Hessarian allowed the normal people of Tevinter to conduct purges on the Dreamers, made high positions within the Chantry exclusive to them and opened the Senate to them?

Hessarian is worthy of some accolades, it's the current mgisters who are ruining everything for everyone.

 

Yes he conducted many purges of dreamers of high priests.

but there's no evidence that the imperial chantry ever had restrictions on who could be elected into what position. (in fact the very first Imperial devine was a male mage.) 

Not restricting mages, Not restricting Men. No restricting mundanes.

Hessarian himself was a mage and the most revered of all disciples of andraste in the north.

People forget hessarian was long dead when the "white" chantry was established.

Hell the circle system in the north has never even been a prison for mages it is basically a boarding school, with magi free to come and go. (which is why it still stands to this day)

 

the limitations on mages appear to be an invention of Orlias. Hessarian was a visionary that sort equality between Magi and Mundanes, which in tevinter still stands. the Mundanes still have voice in senate and can even be archon. the people ****** with Hessarian's dream are the bigots and heretics of the south.

[MisterJB]

Yes he conducted many purges of dreamers of high priests.

but there's no evidence that the imperial chantry ever had restrictions on who could be elected into what position. (in fact the very first Imperial devine was a male mage.) 

Not restricting mages, Not restricting Men. No restricting mundanes.

Hessarian himself was a mage and the most revered of all disciples of andraste in the north.

People forget hessarian was long dead when the "white" chantry was established.

Hell the circle system in the north has never even been a prison for mages it is basically a boarding school, with magi free to come and go. (which is why it still stands to this day)

 

the limitations on mages appear to be an invention of Orlias. Hessarian was a visionary that sort equality between Magi and Mundanes, which in tevinter still stands. the Mundanes still have voice in senate and can even be archon. the people ****** with Hessarian's dream are the bigots and heretics of the south.

Ok, you are correct in saying that the World of Thedas does not specifically state mages were barred from the Chantry. However, the book does say that for a hundred years, all high ranking members were normal people so, even if it wasn't written down, it was true in practice.

The black divine was elected after the mages has retaken power and expelled normal people from all seats of power during the Schism.

 

The notion that there is any sort of equality between normals and mages in Tevinter is complete nonsense and you know it because it's common knowledge. World of Thedas, page 77, specifically tells us that normals are barred from matter of governance and can't rise beyond the ranks of mother and father in the Imperial Chantry.

Yes, Hessarion gave normal people a voice and the magisters who came after took it away.

[Chari]

Here I am, I do support the Chantry even if I'm also not afraid of critisizing it

Hmm, nice to see some common sense and not-hateful attitude towards the Chantry on BSN

[herkles]

Chant of Light verse for the day!

 

Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him. 

Foul and corrupt are they

Who have taken His gift

And turned it against His children.

They shall be named Maleficar, accursed ones.

They shall find no rest in this world

Or beyond.

Transfigurations 1:2

[herkles]

Here is a question that popped into my head. Would the names of Andraste and for those Tevinter Heretics, Hessarian be taboo for anyone to use or would they be more accepted, same for any other holy figures in either chantry. 

 

 

side note: How does the Andrastian Chantry regard Hessarian? The tevinter supporters have showed how he is regarded in the slavery land, but what of the rest of Thedas?

[raging_monkey]

Here is a question that popped into my head. Would the names of Andraste and for those Tevinter Heretics, Hessarian be taboo for anyone to use or would they be more accepted, same for any other holy figures in either chantry. 
 
 
side note: How does the Andrastian Chantry regard Hessarian? The tevinter supporters have showed how he is regarded in the slavery land, but what of the rest of Thedas?

he's considered the first imperial convert and is important to the white chantry but is only refered to in historical text

[Daerog]

WoT says that non-mages were a part of the clergy before there were Grand Clerics, as Grand Clerics was a role designed by the Andrastian Chantry, and the Imperial Chantry is a return to the past (with its theological interpretations, anyway, kept the structure). It was in Towers (the 3rd Age), when a "Black" Divine was established and the schism made, but before that, there were still mages who were part of the clergy in Tevinter that Val Roaodjfasjdl (w/e that orlesian city is named) didn't know about.

 

With how Tevinter culture (and the Imperial Chantry since it is only made of Tevinters at this time) views magic as a divine gift (a traditional idea even before the Old Gods), it does make sense that the upper levels of the Chantry being for mages, as they seem to be given the responsibility of a divine gift. Whether that same custom extends to Imperial Chantry communities outside Tevinter, it has not been said... since there are none, currently, but the question is whether this is now a doctrine of their faith or just a tradition.

 

Still not a whole lot of information has been given of either Chantry. This lore is all pretty new, DA isn't that old, and much lore is hidden from us until it becomes relevant.

 

Currently, what we do know is that non-mages have a glass ceiling in Tevinter, they can't reach the higher offices of Tevinter or the Imperial Chantry, as those are filled by members of Circles, and I don't think a non-mage can apply to a Circle.

[Daerog]

Here is a question that popped into my head. Would the names of Andraste and for those Tevinter Heretics, Hessarian be taboo for anyone to use or would they be more accepted, same for any other holy figures in either chantry. 

 

 

side note: How does the Andrastian Chantry regard Hessarian? The tevinter supporters have showed how he is regarded in the slavery land, but what of the rest of Thedas?

 

No, it's not taboo to say those names. To curse with those names is disrespectful, as with using anyone's name as a curse, but it is more severe with the Andrastian/Orlesian Chantry, as they see Andraste as the Bride of the Maker.

 

I don't think the Imperial Chantry has as high of a regard for her, but still greatly respect/revere her as a prophet and martyr who brought the faith of the Maker back.

 

Edit: As for the side note, the sword you see as the symbol of the Templars? Ya, that is the Sword of Mercy, as Hessarian's sword would be seen as. He is regarded as a disciple of Andraste and is honored as such, but with his association with Tevinter, being a mage, and now the Imperial Chantry, he probably isn't talked about as often as others.

[Drasanil]

Here's a question. If mages can only use staves, how did Hessarian use a sword to put Andraste out of her misery?

 

[raging_monkey]

Here's a question. If mages can only use staves, how did Hessarian use a sword to put Andraste out of her misery?
 

thats a good sodding question. What makes a weapon a focus and if it known how why cant magi use something aside from staves/spears

[Daerog]

Cause he was an Arcane Warrior, duh! How else was he able to stand up to the Altus class and pretty much slay most of the upper class mages with only the support of the lower classes? Probably was a battlemage as well.

 

Still, the KE class does seem pretty neat with its energy swords. Still stuck between KE and Necromancer for first playthrough of DA:I.

[herkles]

No, it's not taboo to say those names. To curse with those names is disrespectful, as with using anyone's name as a curse, but it is more severe with the Andrastian/Orlesian Chantry, as they see Andraste as the Bride of the Maker.

 

I don't think the Imperial Chantry has as high of a regard for her, but still greatly respect/revere her as a prophet and martyr who brought the faith of the Maker back.

 

Edit: As for the side note, the sword you see as the symbol of the Templars? Ya, that is the Sword of Mercy, as Hessarian's sword would be seen as. He is regarded as a disciple of Andraste and is honored as such, but with his association with Tevinter, being a mage, and now the Imperial Chantry, he probably isn't talked about as often as others.

 

Ah did not know that about the templars. cool. 

 

Here's a question. If mages can only use staves, how did Hessarian use a sword to put Andraste out of her misery? 

thats a good sodding question. What makes a weapon a focus and if it known how why cant magi use something aside from staves/spears

 

That is easy. Gameplay and story segragation

[Drasanil]

That is easy. Gameplay and story segragation

 

I know, it's just Bioware's stance on it is annoying. It's like in the new Hero of Thedas trailer, where you clearly see a rogue inquisitor [double daggers on back], raise a sword to signal an attack or something.