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[The Ascendant]

Your right. It's wrong for me to judge attitudes towards religions in the Middle Ages by modern standards.

[raging_monkey]

Crash Course on the Crusades
 
Okay, there is that if people are interested... and civilians die in war, either by accident or on purpose, even America targeted civilians in WWII...
 
Anyway, think we can now move on to the Chantry?
 
 
So, with the Chantry having political division now, think there will be a second schism?

god i love history thanks for the link

OT: its possible that a 2Nd schism is likly to happen maybe not instantanious but possible

[The Ascendant]

Crash Course on the Crusades
 
Okay, there is that if people are interested... and civilians die in war, either by accident or on purpose, even America targeted civilians in WWII...
 
Anyway, think we can now move on to the Chantry?
 
 
So, with the Chantry having political division now, think there will be a second schism?

Most likely. With the Divine possibly KIA and with no control over the Templars or Mages, many priests could use the chaos as an opportunity to establish their own dogma or seize power. There's a lot of power and influence with the Chantry.

[Master Warder Z_]

 

Eh a bit rushed for my tastes but it covers the broad strokes more or less.

 

 

So, with the Chantry having political division now, think there will be a second schism?

 

Yup.

[Apostate.]

I beg you all to rethink your stance on Apostate Mages should this divide eventually end with reformation.

[Master Warder Z_]

I beg you all to rethink your stance on Apostate Mages should this divide eventually end with reformation.

 

They all deserve death for willfully ignoring the danger they pose to the rest of Thedas.

 

The circle is the only place for magic and mages.

 

Well that or on battlefields against the Qunari.

[raging_monkey]

I beg you all to rethink your stance on Apostate Mages should this divide eventually end with reformation.

you can find solace in tevinter(i use the term loosely) * offers hand gesturing to a small boat to tevinter* but the mage issue is so ingrained(arguably with good reason) that reforms on the matter is very slim

[Apostate.]

They all deserve death for willfully ignoring the danger they pose to the rest of Thedas.

 

The circle is the only place for magic and mages.

 

Well that or on battlefields against the Qunari.

I see....

 

Well it sure is a good thing I am in no way shape or form an Apostate. Or Mage even really.

I'll just be going now.

*Trips over self while leaving*

*Footsteps*

[Daerog]

Either go into the Circles of the south, or be recognized and tracked by the government in Tevinter, either way mages are kept track of.

 

No, random apostates doing whatever they want should not be approved. There are some here and there throughout Thedas, so it isn't as bad as it could be. If mages are allowed to go without being known or being trained appropriately, things could go really bad... well, more frequently than they already do...

[Br3admax]

They all deserve death for willfully ignoring the danger they pose to the rest of Thedas.

 

The circle is the only place for magic and mages.

 

Well that or on battlefields against the Qunari.

I'm willing to allow a few mages to serve in the courts of Thedas, just as a long as Templars follow them. 

[Inquisitor Julianos]

There is only one answer for my support to this threat.

 

"MY LIFE FOR MAKER! BURN THE HERETICS!" *Drop Pods + Space Marines and Cassandra Pentaghast*

[Apostate.]

I mean after the big vote were all Apostates right? Like we chose to leave the Chantry and its circle system! WE!

We I tell you! Us all of us.

*weeps*

[Daerog]

Fiona is responsible for every mage death after that vote. There were plenty of mages who were fine with the Circle, like Finn, who are now instantly turned into international criminals because of that damn vote... I plan for my mage Inquisitor to be really pissed at the Circle members who took part in that vote.

 

Anyway... ya, the Chantry... with some of the released screen shots, things are getting crazy, and I hope we learn more about the Imperial Chantry and see if it can influence some parts of Orlais or Fereldan... more likely Fereldan...

[The Ascendant]

They may have chosen to leave, but can they really. The Circle of Magi has existed for nearly 1000 years in the majority of Thedas, providing mages a place where they can live and not be subject to lynchings or persecution. True there are restrictions and the Templars can be overzealous at times but what's a realistic alternative for the majority of mages? Tevinter won't accept or help foreign mages and Qunari hate magic more than the Chantry. Mages need the Circle, but a reformed one that acts more like Hogwarts and less like Shawshank.

[herkles]

I still want to know why demons should over run Nevarra and Par Vollen.

 

*Drools over history lesson* tell me more

 

Alrighty, as someone who is a medieval Scholar, I can help out here. Warning this is a long post. 

 

In the middle ages there were numerous crusades, the thing is they each have their own interesting characteristics and political power plays. So I shall talk about each of them. 

 

First though the crusades were, at least in the medieval context, not actually wars. At least not technically anyways. Sure when it comes down to it, yea they are wars; but that is not how they were viewied by the people who fought in them. They were pilgrimages, armed pilgramges, but they were pilgrimages. It was this reason why people went on crusade since going on a pilgrimage was huge in the middle ages. It wasn't actually till later on that they began being refered to as crusades, which comes from the fact that they wore crosses on their equipment.  

 

It is also important to note that Crusading was expansive, Richard the lionheart sold as much as he could to finiance his war. It was a major investment. That said, as a pilgrimage lots of people joined for that purpose because it could help cleanse them of their sins. Not by killing people, but by going to the city of Jerusalem; they just did killing along the side. 

 

So basically the church had an awesome marketing team  

 

Now on to each crusade itself. 

 

First Crusade

 

This was the most succesful one. There are some interesting things to note about what occured during this crusade. 

 

The first is the byzantine politics. The roman empire had just lost massivily in 1071 at the battle of Manzikert. They had lost basically all of Antolia. So the roman emperor called upon the pope for aid. He was hoping for mercenaries, what he got was not quite that. He did make that all the crusaders pledge that any city they take that was once under the byznatine emperor's control goes back to him. Many agreed, because they needed supplies and their aid but had no desire to do it; keep in mind that would have meant Jerusalem was placed under the control of the Byzantines which the crusaders did not want. 

 

Anyways, they eventually got to jerusalem. There is some intereting notes of things that happened on the way. Notably that they actually paid for their equipment in the towns they marched through. Also that after the siege of Acre, i think i could be wrong here, the nobles wanted to wait but it was the common man that actually threatened to leave if they didn't march to the city of Jerusalem. 

 

Anyways. They won here, after believing they had a holy vision, and then killed lots of people. The fact that they massacred lots of people didn't mean the crusades were any more barbric then other wars of the era, after sieging looting and pillaging was a common occurence. Mainly because before supply lines, armies were paid via looting. 

 

Second Crusade

 

This is when the crusade's goals started changing so might as well talk about it now. For most of the crusades, the most important location was Jerusalam. The pope would eventually start to use this as a more general term to fight against the enemies of the christian faith, ie assisting in the reconquistia in Hispania or the northern crusades against Lithuania. For the second crusade the goal was Edessa which was taken over by the Seljuk turks. 

 

It was a failure for the most part. There were some successes in eastern europe and in Portugal but the objective to take Eddesa failed. 

 

Third Crusade

 

This crusade is one of the more famous ones, often called the king crusade because of the four kings involved. Richard the Lionhart, Fredrick Barbarosa, philip the 2nd of France, and Saladin on the side of the muslims. Fredrick died in a river and lost the forces of the germans.

 

This was a more proper crusade, at least in the fact that the goal was Jerusalem. For a few years early Saladin had managed to capture the city.  it was a failure, mostly because Richard took his time getting there(he had a tendency to go off and do some additional warring on the side) and he couldn't work with Philip.  

 

Forth Crusade

 

This is the one that went wrong. This was a crusade that got hijacked by the Venetians and used it in their own revenge schemes against the Byzantines. Almost everything in this crusade went wrong. It is almost comical in the fact that everything that went wrong with planning of this crusade went wrong. too many people, the boats did not arrive on time, and so on. It is what eventurally established the so called 'latin' empire in constinopole. 

 

Fifth Crusade

 

This was a crusade in which the crusaders wanted to get back to what was proper, and not get sidetracked. It also has one of the most hilliarious scenes with Saint Francis of Assai. The target was Jerusalem, but the plan was to attack via egypt, which the crusaders started to realize was the main issue in them taking Jerusalem. 

 

It was a failure, but it should have been a success. The fault lies with Palgeius, a rather hard line papal legate. The sultan of egypt offered to trade the crusaders Jerusalem for Damietta. Palgeius refused this peace offer, forcing a number of people including the count of holland to leave. 

 

though it does feature a rather funny incident with Saint Francis. Saint Francis decided to accompany the crusaders to Egypt and during a break in the siege, Francis entered the Sultan's side and had lunch with Al-kamil. He asked the sultan to convert to christanity, when the sultan didn't want to. Francis just calmly left and went about his bussiness.

 

Sixth Crusade

 

This is interesting because for all intensive purposes it was an illegal crusade. Fredrick the 2nd was excommunicated, thus he was not allowed to do this. He actually was succesful though. He achivied his objectives through diplomacy in which he made an agreement with the sultan of Egypt to gain control of the holy land in exchange for a ten year peace.

 

This crusade is important because it is what IMO marks the decline of the crusading movement. For the pope no longer was the sanctioner of the crusades but the king, it eroded papal power.

 

I hope that you all enjoyed my summuries of the crusades. Now that is over with back to the Chantry  

 

 

[Apostate.]

Fiona is responsible for every mage death after that vote. There were plenty of mages who were fine with the Circle, like Finn, who are now instantly turned into international criminals because of that damn vote... I plan for my mage Inquisitor to be really pissed at the Circle members who took part in that vote.

I was like 50/50 on the matter but say a rather fine Female Mage that I fancy'd had taken up the banners of Freedom...I well..would have no choice but to answer ze call. But It was freakin Fiona and Adrian like I'm good, Fiona is mad all the time and kind of abrasive. And Adrian? well lets face it Rhy's been all up in that and I...yeah pass.

So there I was chilling ready to accept the stalemate/decision to stay in the Circle I thought was bound to occur when Adrian starts hatching some plans and the Templars burst in start killing people and ****.

[raging_monkey]

I see....
 
Well it sure is a good thing I am in no way shape or form an Apostate. Or Mage even really.
I'll just be going now.
*Trips over self while leaving*
*Footsteps*

this way run my friend * gestures to fellow tevinter magisters*

All they'll get in Tevinter is the opportunity to lick the boots of better mages.
 
Tevinter is like Hollywood. Everyone moves there to be a star. When they just end up in crappy porn or a janitor on the movie set.

hey those are good movies those people work hard for it lol

I still want to know why demons should over run Nevarra and Par Vollen.
 

 
Alrighty, as someone who is a medieval Scholar, I can help out here. Warning this is a long post. 
 
In the middle ages there were numerous crusades, the thing is they each have their own interesting characteristics and political power plays. So I shall talk about each of them. 
 
First though the crusades were, at least in the medieval context, not actually wars. At least not technically anyways. Sure when it comes down to it, yea they are wars; but that is not how they were viewied by the people who fought in them. They were pilgrimages, armed pilgramges, but they were pilgrimages. It was this reason why people went on crusade since going on a pilgrimage was huge in the middle ages. It wasn't actually till later on that they began being refered to as crusades, which comes from the fact that they wore crosses on their equipment.  
 
It is also important to note that Crusading was expansive, Richard the lionheart sold as much as he could to finiance his war. It was a major investment. That said, as a pilgrimage lots of people joined for that purpose because it could help cleanse them of their sins. Not by killing people, but by going to the city of Jerusalem; they just did killing along the side. 
 
So basically the church had an awesome marketing team  
 
Now on to each crusade itself. 
 
First Crusade
 
This was the most succesful one. There are some interesting things to note about what occured during this crusade. 
 
The first is the byzantine politics. The roman empire had just lost massivily in 1071 at the battle of Manzikert. They had lost basically all of Antolia. So the roman emperor called upon the pope for aid. He was hoping for mercenaries, what he got was not quite that. He did make that all the crusaders pledge that any city they take that was once under the byznatine emperor's control goes back to him. Many agreed, because they needed supplies and their aid but had no desire to do it; keep in mind that would have meant Jerusalem was placed under the control of the Byzantines which the crusaders did not want. 
 
Anyways, they eventually got to jerusalem. There is some intereting notes of things that happened on the way. Notably that they actually paid for their equipment in the towns they marched through. Also that after the siege of Acre, i think i could be wrong here, the nobles wanted to wait but it was the common man that actually threatened to leave if they didn't march to the city of Jerusalem. 
 
Anyways. They won here, after believing they had a holy vision, and then killed lots of people. The fact that they massacred lots of people didn't mean the crusades were any more barbric then other wars of the era, after sieging looting and pillaging was a common occurence. Mainly because before supply lines, armies were paid via looting. 
 
Second Crusade
 
This is when the crusade's goals started changing so might as well talk about it now. For most of the crusades, the most important location was Jerusalam. The pope would eventually start to use this as a more general term to fight against the enemies of the christian faith, ie assisting in the reconquistia in Hispania or the northern crusades against Lithuania. For the second crusade the goal was Edessa which was taken over by the Seljuk turks. 
 
It was a failure for the most part. There were some successes in eastern europe and in Portugal but the objective to take Eddesa failed. 
 

Third Crusade
 
This crusade is one of the more famous ones, often called the king crusade because of the four kings involved. Richard the Lionhart, Fredrick Barbarosa, philip the 2nd of France, and Saladin on the side of the muslims. Fredrick died in a river and lost the forces of the germans.
 
This was a more proper crusade, at least in the fact that the goal was Jerusalem. For a few years early Saladin had managed to capture the city.  it was a failure, mostly because Richard took his time getting there(he had a tendency to go off and do some additional warring on the side) and he couldn't work with Philip.  
 

Forth Crusade
 
This is the one that went wrong. This was a crusade that got hijacked by the Venetians and used it in their own revenge schemes against the Byzantines. Almost everything in this crusade went wrong. It is almost comical in the fact that everything that went wrong with planning of this crusade went wrong. too many people, the boats did not arrive on time, and so on. It is what eventurally established the so called 'latin' empire in constinopole. 
 

Fifth Crusade
 
This was a crusade in which the crusaders wanted to get back to what was proper, and not get sidetracked. It also has one of the most hilliarious scenes with Saint Francis of Assai. The target was Jerusalem, but the plan was to attack via egypt, which the crusaders started to realize was the main issue in them taking Jerusalem. 
 
It was a failure, but it should have been a success. The fault lies with Palgeius, a rather hard line papal legate. The sultan of egypt offered to trade the crusaders Jerusalem for Damietta. Palgeius refused this peace offer, forcing a number of people including the count of holland to leave. 
 
though it does feature a rather funny incident with Saint Francis. Saint Francis decided to accompany the crusaders to Egypt and during a break in the siege, Francis entered the Sultan's side and had lunch with Al-kamil. He asked the sultan to convert to christanity, when the sultan didn't want to. Francis just calmly left and went about his bussiness.
 

Sixth Crusade
 
This is interesting because for all intensive purposes it was an illegal crusade. Fredrick the 2nd was excommunicated, thus he was not allowed to do this. He actually was succesful though. He achivied his objectives through diplomacy in which he made an agreement with the sultan of Egypt to gain control of the holy land in exchange for a ten year peace.
 
This crusade is important because it is what IMO marks the decline of the crusading movement. For the pope no longer was the sanctioner of the crusades but the king, it eroded papal power.
 
I hope that you all enjoyed my summuries of the crusades. Now that is over with back to the Chantry

i love you *passes out from awsomeness

I was like 50/50 on the matter but say a rather fine Female Mage that I fancy'd had taken up the banners of Freedom...I well..would have no choice but to answer ze call. But It was freakin Fiona and Adrian like I'm good, Fiona is mad all the time and kind of abrasive. And Adrian? well lets face it Rhy's been all up in that and I...yeah pass.
So there I was chilling ready to accept the stalemate/decision to stay in the Circle I thought was bound to occur when Adrian starts hatching some plans and the Templars burst in start killing people and ****.

FOR FREEDOM!!

[Apostate.]

Suddenly I find myself branded Apostate through no fault of my own.

But it's not just me its all my Mage brothers, were doomed to be hunted for the actions of a couple angry influential Mages and a Terrorist.

And the Blood Mages.....they really didn't help things much.

[raging_monkey]

Suddenly I find myself branded Apostate through no fault of my own.
But it's not just me its all my Mage brothers, were doomed to be hunted for the actions of a couple angry influential Mages and a Terrorist.
And the Blood Mages.....they really didn't help things much.

so true but dont hate them for it. Its human nature. Come me to tevinter we can use use more magi like you to better our society. Not all of us are evil

[Apostate.]

so true but dont hate them for it. Its human nature. Come me to tevinter we can use use more magi like you to better our society. Not all of us are evil

Unless you all are evil. Even you. Which is why you want me to come over. Because your evil.

 

Keep your wits about you Mage, true tests never end.

[The Ascendant]

The good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

[raging_monkey]

Unless you all are evil. Even you. Which is why you want me to come over. Because your evil.
 
Keep your wits about you Mage, true tests never end.

ah true advice from a demon... Evil is a state of mind. I admit im no saint but im no devil and there are some undesirables but we are both magi trying to co-exist is a goal worth doing but best to do it with friends at your side. All i ask is give us a chance if it is not to your liking then you are free to leave back to the south my friend

[herkles]

They may have chosen to leave, but can they really. The Circle of Magi has existed for nearly 1000 years in the majority of Thedas, providing mages a place where they can live and not be subject to lynchings or persecution. True there are restrictions and the Templars can be overzealous at times but what's a realistic alternative for the majority of mages? Tevinter won't accept or help foreign mages and Qunari hate magic more than the Chantry. Mages need the Circle, but a reformed one that acts more like Hogwarts and less like Shawshank.

 

For the sake of the mages and the templars, here is hoping Justinia the Fifth doesn't go boom at the Peace confrence  She was the leading force behind a reform to help mages, such as finding a cure for tranquility. Now I am not sure how many are supporting her, but I do believe that she has her allies and supporters in this endevor, hopefully we can help her with this task.