142 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Pretty much, yes. I could offer a few disagreements on tone/presentation, but that's about the gist of it. But it's sort of a fascinating look into the banality of evil and how many people it appeals to.

[Medhia_Nox]

Oh, this topic again. 

 

Look, here - I'll do this. 

 

Pro-Mage = Chaos and Destruction!  Pro-Templar = Freedom from oppression of magic!

 

Ohhh... scandalous.

 

===

 

For every person that supports the Templars - there's another person on these forums that thinks being a mage inherently makes you a superior person.  

This is not a one sided debate - as if a mage has never raped somebody... please.  Childish accusations and fear-mongering.  

 

It's amazing all the vile things people ignore that mages have done in the last two games in the name of some idiotic flower-child notion of freedom. 

 

===

 

As a mage player - I am not for either group.  

 

The mages total failure to police themselves creates a violent, oppressive world where non-mages live in fear.  It's the one thing I actually appreciate about Tevinter.

 

The Templars have been consumed by their authority over other people and have turned it into fear mongering and tyranny. 

 

Both groups need to be crushed and rebuilt. 

 

What I'll do in DA:I - I'm not sure.  I imagine I'll be forced to choose and I'll likely go with the Templars - unless I am somehow confident that I can police mage activity with impunity.  

[Xilizhra]

For every person that supports the Templars - there's another person on these forums that thinks being a mage inherently makes you a superior person.  

This is not a one sided debate - as if a mage has never raped somebody... please.  Childish accusations and fear-mongering. 

There's like three or four, and most seem to be roleplaying the whole time. It's not exactly the same thing.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  And nobody on the forums actually supports Templar oppression.  Well - maybe 3 or 4 - but they're roleplaying most of the time.

 

What they support - and what mage supporters always seem to simply ignore - is making sure everyone who isn't a mage is safe from mages who, on a whim, could destroy an entire village.  And worse - might destroy the village without even knowing they're going to do it - through possession.

 

The concept that a normal man could somehow destroy a whole village on a whim is totally and utterly false and I won't even entertain the notion that a peasant with a torch is the same as a man that throws fire with his mind.  There's a level of chosen stupidity (I think the people who make it know how stupid the argument is) in that argument simply for the sake of making a claim sound more right than it is.  

 

Mages are literally people who hear voices inside their heads ALL THE TIME - and risk invasion by alien powers into the bodies ALL THE TIME.  Yes, non-mages can be possessed - but the games have made it embarrassingly clear that mages are more likely to attract demons by ridiculously larger margins.   

 

Reform - I support.  

 

Of course anyone who rapes someone should be tried and imprisoned or put to death or whatever.  The problem with the Templars is that their Internal Affairs seems to be as corrupt as the rest and in serious need of overhaul.  

 

I can absolutely understand why mages are forced to attend Circle - but stealing children from their parents seems pointless and part of the Templar issues that must be routed.  

 

Templars should be a secular institution citizens pay a tax for wherein - much like a fire dept. - Templar groups exist in every town.  They keep records of mage families, mages born in those towns, mage activity, crimes by mages, demon presence - etc.   Templar academies should be prestigious military academies of magical training.  A special corps of mages specializing in anti-magic should also be part of this policing force. 

 

Why the mages aren't allowed to leave the towers - just seems like a tyrannical oversimplification of the problem.  Mages like Wynne are given the utmost in freedom (she's not alone - Finn and that mage botanist also have freedom).  

 

There is no question that the Templars have gone too far and need to be reformed and given sensitivity training.  

 

But this notion that mages are harmless is what makes me determined to destroy the mage rebellion for the power grab I believe it to be and not the civil resistance it claims to be.  

[RobRam10]

Can't we all just get along?
 

 

HERESY OVERLOAD

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  And nobody on the forums actually supports Templar oppression.  Well - maybe 3 or 4 - but they're roleplaying most of the time.

 

What they support - and what mage supporters always seem to simply ignore - is making sure everyone who isn't a mage is safe from mages who, on a whim, could destroy an entire village.  And worse - might destroy the village without even knowing they're going to do it - through possession.

 

The concept that a normal man could somehow destroy a whole village on a whim is totally and utterly false and I won't even entertain the notion that a peasant with a torch is the same as a man that throws fire with his mind.  There's a level of chosen stupidity (I think the people who make it know how stupid the argument is) in that argument simply for the sake of making a claim sound more right than it is.  

 

Mages are literally people who hear voices inside their heads ALL THE TIME - and risk invasion by alien powers into the bodies ALL THE TIME.  Yes, non-mages can be possessed - but the games have made it embarrassingly clear that mages are more likely to attract demons by ridiculously larger margins.   

 

Reform - I support.  

 

Of course anyone who rapes someone should be tried and imprisoned or put to death or whatever.  The problem with the Templars is that their Internal Affairs seems to be as corrupt as the rest and in serious need of overhaul.  

 

I can absolutely understand why mages are forced to attend Circle - but stealing children from their parents seems pointless and part of the Templar issues that must be routed.  

 

Templars should be a secular institution citizens pay a tax for wherein - much like a fire dept. - Templar groups exist in every town.  They keep records of mage families, mages born in those towns, mage activity, crimes by mages, demon presence - etc.   Templar academies should be prestigious military academies of magical training.  A special corps of mages specializing in anti-magic should also be part of this policing force. 

 

Why the mages aren't allowed to leave the towers - just seems like a tyrannical oversimplification of the problem.  Mages like Wynne are given the utmost in freedom (she's not alone - Finn and that mage botanist also have freedom).  

 

There is no question that the Templars have gone too far and need to be reformed and given sensitivity training.  

 

But this notion that mages are harmless is what makes me determined to destroy the mage rebellion for the power grab I believe it to be and not the civil resistance it claims to be.  

Well, it simply is not a power grab, so prepare to be disappointed. All it was was secession from the Chantry, which was allowed.

 

Also, the fact that people will actually support Annulment and involuntary Tranquility is proof enough that evil has infected many minds indeed.

[Gairnulf]

OP convinced me totally. There is no way me or anyone will play a politically incorrect character, or else I'll find you, go to your house, and personally force you to be tolerant and polite. Be warned.

[Sylentmana]

Isn't there an internet law that says at some point the Nazis will show up? This time it happened right out of the gate.

[TheJediSaint]

Isn't there an internet law that says at some point the Nazis will show up? This time it happened right out of the gate.

Godwin's Law.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Godwin's_law

[Xilizhra]

Isn't there an internet law that says at some point the Nazis will show up? This time it happened right out of the gate.

The Nazis were never a unique example of human psychology, only a very prominent one. The tendencies that led to them live within many, many humans still.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  So basically - anyone who doesn't agree with you has succumb to evil.  Those people you're talking about believe the exact same thing.

Fiona and Adrian alone (Fiona by having such a deplorable toady in Adrian) are reasons enough for me not to support the rebellion.

 

I'll have to thank The Elder One for liberating me from the mages who forced me to fight in their war. 

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  So basically - anyone who doesn't agree with you has succumb to evil.  Those people you're talking about believe the exact same thing.

Fiona and Adrian alone (Fiona by having such a deplorable toady in Adrian) are reasons enough for me not to support the rebellion.

 

I'll have to thank The Elder One for liberating me from the mages who forced me to fight in their war. 

The mages started no wars. The Chantry didn't pursue war against them. The templars left and declared war on the mages as an independent polity, one that had never had a claim on the mages (as the Chantry alone had that).

 

Also, I'm fully aware that my foes believe the same thing. That's what's so fun about conflicts of ideology.

[Yinello]

Those mage hats though, now that's pure evil.

[Drasanil]

HERESY OVERLOAD

 

[TheJediSaint]

Those mage hats though, now that's pure evil.

The world must be protected from the awful fashion senses of the mages.

[Yinello]

The world must be protected from the awful fashion senses of the mages.

 

That's what Vivienne's campaigning for.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  You seriously think the nations of Thedas would just be like "OH, the mages are now just going to do whatever they want." 

 

If I knew an insurgent group carrying enough firepower to turn my country into a parking lot was coming my way - I'd line my borders with archers.  Or better - welcome them - offer them poisoned food supplies - and bid them farewell.

 

The mages going their separate ways spreading out through any nation - is a disaster waiting to happen.  

 

A bunch of shut in children who have been restricted all their lives?  Yeah - nothing bad EVER happens in those situations. 

 

If it wasn't the Templars - it would have been nations hiring vast quantities of Templars to round the mages back up.  

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  You seriously think the nations of Thedas would just be like "OH, the mages are now just going to do whatever they want." 

 

If I knew an insurgent group carrying enough firepower to turn my country into a parking lot was coming my way - I'd line my borders with archers.  Or better - welcome them - offer them poisoned food supplies - and bid them farewell.

 

The mages going their separate ways spreading out through any nation - is a disaster waiting to happen.  

 

A bunch of shut in children who have been restricted all their lives?  Yeah - nothing bad EVER happens in those situations. 

 

If it wasn't the Templars - it would have been nations hiring vast quantities of Templars to round the mages back up.  

And if that was the case, I'd do everything in my power to fight them too. Thankfully, it isn't.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  Yeah, they have this little thing called the The Breach to contend with right now.  

 

I will say this... Tevinter must be laughing hysterically at this rebellion.  The amount of knowledge that has already been lost by the non-Tevinter mages due to their choice to rebel.... is nearly absolute.

 

The Templars will take ever Circle and destroy every tome of knowledge and magical item that exists (if they have any sort of real tactics at all).  And we know they're doing it - since they already Annulled a tower and did just this.  

 

The choice to rebel without any planning (decades in the making) was the stupidest possible concept I can imagine.  

 

I really think you're going to be disappointed about mage freedom Xilizhra - I truly don't think the Circle's are going to disappear.  No longer be the breeding ground for Templar abuse?  Yes.  But everything Bioware has created isn't going to be gone after DA:I.  

 

I think the mages are going to chose to do the prudent thing and return to the Circles of their own volition - under reformed terms.

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  Yeah, they have this little thing called the The Breach to contend with right now.  

 

I will say this... Tevinter must be laughing hysterically at this rebellion.  The amount of knowledge that has already been lost by the non-Tevinter mages due to their choice to rebel.... is nearly absolute.

 

The Templars will take ever Circle and destroy every tome of knowledge and magical item that exists (if they have any sort of real tactics at all).  And we know they're doing it - since they already Annulled a tower and did just this.  

 

The choice to rebel without any planning (decades in the making) was the stupidest possible concept I can imagine.  

 

I really think you're going to be disappointed about mage freedom Xilizhra - I truly don't think the Circle's are going to disappear.  No longer be the breeding ground for Templar abuse?  Yes.  But everything Bioware has created isn't going to be gone after DA:I.  

 

I think the mages are going to chose to do the prudent thing and return to the Circles of their own volition - under reformed terms.

We'll see. What's important to remember is that even widely divergent decisions won't impact Tevinter or Qunadar too much, and those seem to be the most likely settings for the next game.

[Zatche]

I'm pretty pro-mage, but when other pro-mages try to simplify the issue to "mages are Ghandhi, and templar are evil," my eyes roll back into my head.

[dantares83]

@Xilizhra:  So basically - anyone who doesn't agree with you has succumb to evil.  Those people you're talking about believe the exact same thing.

Fiona and Adrian alone (Fiona by having such a deplorable toady in Adrian) are reasons enough for me not to support the rebellion.

 

I'll have to thank The Elder One for liberating me from the mages who forced me to fight in their war. 

don't quote a few crazies to justify the lack of freedom for mages!

 

it is just not right to imprison children! 

 

Fiona was a slave and maybe that is why her thoughts are so blindly one-side. The same could be said for Adrian too. She was taken from her family at a young age, seeing nothing but 4 walls and then templars bullying n possibly raping her fellow friends. it will unhinge anyone! it is sick!

 

she should have been taken as an apprentice to a paid enchanter and learn the arts. the chantry can have strict laws against these enchanters from teaching and practicing forbidden magic by monitoring them (but not as crazy as caging them all together for 'easy monitoring'). in short, the chantry is lazy and should spend more money hiring templars patrolling the streets. 

[dantares83]

I'm pretty pro-mage, but when other pro-mages try to simplify the issue to "mages are Ghandhi, and templar are evil," my eyes roll back into my head.

well, Gandhi is a hero who dares to fight for the right of his people! 

[MisterJB]

This thread is sick.

[TheJediSaint]

it is just not right to imprison children! 

You must have hated kindergarten.