1260 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Er... no it doesn't. All you need is one side to make a declaration, which is what happened.

And Anders declared war when he killed hundreds of people with his bomb.

[Xilizhra]

And Anders declared war when he killed hundreds of people with his bomb.

If you can consider response against a lone actor a war... but again, he wasn't part of the Circle.

[Hellion Rex]

Isabela didn't instigate any war, that was Petrice. and other zealots who refused to leave the qunari alone. Had they left the qunari alone, Arishok would have focused only on the tome and Isabela.

And I do also have to say that Isabela does feel regret for what she did, for both messing with the Qunari and killing those slaves. And the important thing is that she willingly came back to fix what she screwed up.

[AresKeith]

Isabela also causes a lot deaths. She instigated a Qunari war. Merrill killed Marathari by consorting with a demon and the devs apparently say its a bad call to let her keep the mirror. Sebastian may instigate a war with Starkhaven. Varric could turn crazy from the lyrium idol piece if given to him. Lot's of bad hypotheticals happen but they only happen depending on how the player interferes. Anders may start a war, but the other companions are no less innocent. Neither is Hawke depending on how you play the protagonist.

 

No one said they were, nor is that really relevant at all to this

[Xilizhra]

And I do also have to say that Isabela does feel regret for what she did, for both messing with the Qunari and killing those slaves. And the important thing is that she willingly came back to fix what she screwed up.

Which Anders does too. He's quite willing to do all he can to blunt the effects of the Annulment.

[Hellion Rex]

If you can consider response against a lone actor a war... but again, he wasn't part of the Circle.

Doesn't matter. He was a mage, apostate or no. The Templar Order as a whole cracked down on magic, even more so when Anders' actions prompted Fiona to call for independence the first time in Cumberland.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Isabela also causes a lot deaths. She instigated a Qunari war. Merrill killed Marathari by consorting with a demon and the devs apparently say its a bad call to let her keep the mirror. Sebastian may instigate a war with Starkhaven. Varric could turn crazy from the lyrium idol piece if given to him. Lot's of bad hypotheticals happen but they only happen depending on how the player interferes. Anders may start a war, but the other companions are no less innocent. Neither is Hawke depending on how you play the protagonist.

Isabela did many bad things, but she at least tried to stop the fighting by returning the Tome of Koslun. 

Marethari let herself get possessed, so not Merrill's fault. 

Can't blame Sebastian and Varric on things that might happen since they may not. 

 

So no, comparing the companions to Anders is not logical. 

[Sports72Xtrm]

I admit I don't understand that logic. If you are an outlaw, you need connections more than ever. Sebastian can provide a lot. Anders presence actually will endanger Hawke since Anders will be wanted for Chantry blowing. Not even talking of the possibility of Vengeance showing up in the most inappropriate moment. 

Sebastian as I said is a rival to the throne of Starkhaven whom he'd have to war with or a Chantry brother, a servant of the organization who wants Hawke dead or captured. I don't see him as having much utility as you do. As I said, his connections if he had any are in Starkhaven, filled with backstabbing nobles and the like. I don't see them as reliable. As I said, Sebastian is disputed royalty at best. He's not confirmed to be able to give Hawke any aid.

[Hellion Rex]

Which Anders does too. He's quite willing to do all he can to blunt the effects of the Annulment.

No, he wanted to die. Isabela didn't sit there passively like he did, waiting for you to make the choice. She came back of her own volition.

[Xilizhra]

Doesn't matter. He was a mage, apostate or no. The Templar Order as a whole cracked down on magic, even more so when Anders' actions prompted Fiona to call for independence the first time in Cumberland.

Which is what makes the Templar Order evil and wholly at fault, given that they cracked down on people who had nothing to do with Anders' actions.

[Mr.House]

Which Anders does too. He's quite willing to do all he can to blunt the effects of the Annulment.

And he got that, he embraced his true love. The murder knife.

[AresKeith]

Doesn't matter. He was a mage, apostate or no. The Templar Order as a whole cracked down on magic, even more so when Anders' actions prompted Fiona to call for independence the first time in Cumberland.

 

Exactly, what Anders did made people fear magic and mages even more

[Hazegurl]

If you can consider response against a lone actor a war... but again, he wasn't part of the Circle.

But he was acting on its behalf.

[Muspade]

Yes that is right...bring ANDERS back!The real Anders!The one from Awakening!

Kill Justice and bring ANDERS!

 

That was the real Anders. Justice just gave him a back-bone that he didn't need.

[Nohvarr]

Which one?

All of them, where ever an Anders exist in the multiverse I will be there and I will end them until they no longer pose a threat to reality at large.

[Hellion Rex]

Exactly, what Anders did made people fear magic and mages even more

Inquisitor: Tell me about the Circle of Magi.

Vivienne: Of course. Tell me what you wish to know.

Inquisitor: How did we come to this state, with the Circles in revolt?

Vivienne: You, my dear, are far too wise to have not realized that many of our colleagues live with their eyes closed. Safe inside their towers, they only thought of the Templars and their own resentment. Kirkwall gave the world a reason to remember its fear of magic. A mage killed hundreds with a snap of their fingers. Across Thedas, a new tangible fear of magic grew. Commoners and nobles alike called out to the Chantry for protection. But the malcontents in the towers thought nothing of this. They cared only for themselves and their anger at the new Templar restrictions. When a mage attempted to assassinate Divine Justinia, again, the mages protested the investigation. The leadership chose to vote on independence based on the intolerable conditions imposed by the Templars, sparing no thought to the fact that magic was more feared in the aftermath of these attacks than it had been since Tevinter's day. So long as they have their freedom, they could care little for riots or angry mobs or pitting mages against each other.

[Xilizhra]

No, he wanted to die. Isabela didn't sit there passively like he did, waiting for you to make the choice. She came back of her own volition.

I think he more expected to die.

 

 

But he was acting on its behalf.

Which changes nothing. One doesn't attack Mecca because the Islamic State is acting on behalf of Islam.

[Mr.House]

It's not like Anders went up and stabbed the revered mother. He used MAGIC to not only kill her, but killing everyone in the chantry and around that area. People who where not even part oft he conflict where caught in that crossfire.

 

It was done with magic, by a mage. Circle or not means nothing to anyone, more so when Anders made it clear he was doing this for all mages(even though not all mages wanted this)

[Lumix19]

But he was acting on its behalf.

Except without their consent or approval so... no.

[Mr.House]

Inquisitor: Tell me about the Circle of Magi.

Vivienne: Of course. Tell me what you wish to know.

Inquisitor: How did we come to this state, with the Circles in revolt?

Vivienne: You, my dear, are far too wise to have not realized that many of our colleagues live with their eyes closed. Safe inside their towers, they only thought of the Templars and their own resentment. Kirkwall gave the world a reason to remember its fear of magic. A mage killed hundreds with a snap of their fingers. Across Thedas, a new tangible fear of magic grew. Commoners and nobles alike called out to the Chantry for protection. But the malcontents in the towers thought nothing of this. They cared only for themselves and their anger at the new Templar restrictions. When a mage attempted to assassinate Divine Justinia, again, the mages protested the investigation. The leadership chose to vote on independence based on the intolerable conditions imposed by the Templars, sparing no thought to the fact that magic was more feared in the aftermath of these attacks than it had been since Tevinter's day. So long as they have their freedom, they could care little for riots or angry mobs or pitting mages against each other.

And this is why I'm already loving Viv.

[R0vena]

Sebastian as I said is a rival to the throne of Starkhaven whom he'd have to war with or a Chantry brother, a servant of the organization who wants Hawke dead or captured. I don't see him as having much utility as you do. As I said, his connections if he had any are in Starkhaven, filled with backstabbing nobles and the like. I don't see them as reliable. As I said, Sebastian is disputed royalty at best. He's not confirmed to be able to give Hawke any aid.

And Anders is?

I guess, we just have to agree to disagree, since the conversation seems to go in circles.

[Xilizhra]

It's not like Anders went up and stabbed the revered mother. He used MAGIC to not only kill her, but killing everyone in the chantry and around that area. People who where not even part oft he conflict where caught in that crossfire.

 

It was done with magic, by a mage. Circle or not means nothing to anyone, more so when Anders made it clear he was doing this for all mages(even though not all mages wanted this)

And the people for whom it means nothing are the ones who are blatantly in the wrong.

[Lumix19]

Inquisitor: Tell me about the Circle of Magi.

Vivienne: Of course. Tell me what you wish to know.

Inquisitor: How did we come to this state, with the Circles in revolt?

Vivienne: You, my dear, are far too wise to have not realized that many of our colleagues live with their eyes closed. Safe inside their towers, they only thought of the Templars and their own resentment. Kirkwall gave the world a reason to remember its fear of magic. A mage killed hundreds with a snap of their fingers. Across Thedas, a new tangible fear of magic grew. Commoners and nobles alike called out to the Chantry for protection. But the malcontents in the towers thought nothing of this. They cared only for themselves and their anger at the new Templar restrictions. When a mage attempted to assassinate Divine Justinia, again, the mages protested the investigation. The leadership chose to vote on independence based on the intolerable conditions imposed by the Templars, sparing no thought to the fact that magic was more feared in the aftermath of these attacks than it had been since Tevinter's day. So long as they have their freedom, they could care little for riots or angry mobs or pitting mages against each other.

Just because the common people fear something doesn't mean you should kill it, more often then not they're afraid because they don't understand. Slaughter born from ignorance and fear is precisely the reason the witch trials were enacted throughout history, it's pure hysteria.

[Sports72Xtrm]

And Anders is?

I guess, we just have to agree to disagree, since the conversation seems to go in circles.

Yeah I actually believe he is reliable. When my Hawke gets killed, i can count on Anders to patch me up. And he's the only one who didn't sell my Hawke out in the Fade. He may manipulate Hawke for his cause, but he'll never leave my Hawke for dead. Look at what hoops he jumped for his friend Karl.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Which Anders does too. He's quite willing to do all he can to blunt the effects of the Annulment.

 

Anders was the one who gave Meredith cause to begin the Annulment in the first damn place. In fact, if I understand his plan correctly, he bombed the Chantry hoping that Meredith would finally lose it and attack the mages, therefore forcing them to defend themselves and start the war between the two. 

 

Anders wanted a war plain in simple and was willingly to sacrifice not only hundreds of innocent people to do it but also his fellow mages who he knew would die in the conflict. Seriously, how many mages have to die because of his actions before he realizes he's just making the whole cluster*ck of a situation worse for his own people.