Just because the common people fear something doesn't mean you should kill it, more often then not they're afraid because they don't understand. Slaughter born from ignorance and fear is precisely the reason the witch trials were enacted throughout history, it's pure hysteria.
Because common people are known for acting rationally when mages start blowing things up.
Yeah I actually believe he is reliable. When my Hawke gets killed, i can count on Anders to patch me up. And he's the only one who didn't sell my Hawke out in the Fade. He may manipulate Hawke for his cause, but he'll never leave my Hawke for dead.
Ok, fair enough.)
He did turn on my Hawkes in the Fade quite several times, btw.
And this is why I'm already loving Viv.
Vivienne has her act together, that's for sure.
Vivienne has her act together, that's for sure.
But is it an act that could lead to anything good? We shall see.
Ok, fair enough.)
He did turn on my Hawkes in the Fade quite several times, btw.
You sold out Feyrniel to a demon or made him tranquil 
You sold out Feyrniel to a demon or made him tranquil
Never. Not even once.
Because common people are known for acting rationally when mages start blowing things up.
Just because the common people fear something doesn't mean you should kill it, more often then not they're afraid because they don't understand. Slaughter born from ignorance and fear is precisely the reason the witch trials were enacted throughout history, it's pure hysteria.
A very comparable situation. 
Perhaps not but it's the charge of the Templars to look at the situation rationally instead of buying into the hysteria and doing exactly what Anders wanted.
To be fair, the Templars wouldn't know any better. The only ones who knew was Meredith and the Templars with her at the time. She blamed the entire Circle, and those with her were killed. So to the surviving members of the Kirkwall Templars who would explain what happened with what they knew: a mage blew up the Chantry. Even Cassandra, a Seeker, didn't know what really happened until Varric told her, and that was years later.
Just because the common people fear something doesn't mean you should kill it, more often then not they're afraid because they don't understand. Slaughter born from ignorance and fear is precisely the reason the witch trials were enacted throughout history, it's pure hysteria.
It's hysteria mixed with the very real fear that a single mage is capable of causing mass destruction. All Anders did is make everyone from the lowliest peasant to most powerful noble realize just dangerous mages really are to everybody else.
As the quote goes "A King may move a man, a father may claim a son, but remember that even when those who move you be Kings, or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus." Or that, "Virtue was not convenient at the time." This will not suffice. Remember that." The templars should know better.
To go to the question about Anders in DAI...if he does show up, he's gonna be in my playthrough at least once. Which deals with my mages. However, my Inquisitor won't take too kindly to his act and would want him to be judged for it.
Y'know, I thought I wasn't going to like Vivienne too much at first, but she is the most rationale about the Mage-Templar War. Because all Anders did was incite more justifiable fear into the common people.
To be fair, the Templars wouldn't know any better. The only ones who knew was Meredith and the Templars with her at the time. She blamed the entire Circle, and those with her were killed. So to the surviving members of the Kirkwall Templars who would explain what happened with what they knew: a mage blew up the Chantry. Even Cassandra, a Seeker, didn't know what really happened until Varric told her, and that was years later.
Perhaps they would be misinformed but for how long have mages lived in their towers relatively peacefully? How much help have they offered in the forms of healing and other magic? How many victories have they handed the people of Thedas? Perhaps the common people's ignorance is excusable but Templars live alongside mages, they should know that not many mages are capable of such an act and that it was an isolated incident.
Well, it was Kirkwall, where there were literally gangs of blood mages prowling the streets.
And only a few years before the Kirkwall Incident was Uldred's rebellion.
And there was a mage who tried to assassinate the Divine.
So I can understand why the Templars decided to be more strict as a preventative measure. I may not agree with it, but I understand.
Plus I think Lambert is an Agent of Chaos, so wanted tensions to rise until they reached a boiling point and start a war.
Perhaps they would be misinformed but for how long have mages lived in their towers relatively peacefully? How much help have they offered in the forms of healing and other magic? How many victories have they handed the people of Thedas? Perhaps the common people's ignorance is excusable but Templars live alongside mages, they should know that not many mages are capable of such an act and that it was an isolated incident.
In Kirkwall, most of them were using blood magic. I think they were very wary of them, especially with the number of blood mages there were in the area.
Now, in saying that, I don't normally side with the templars. Much like others, I do feel the mages from the Circle shouldn't be condemned for Anders' actions. Even though I find it rather stupid that most of them still turn to blood magic and you have to kill them.
Well, it was Kirkwall, where there were literally gangs of blood mages prowling the streets.
And only a few years before the Kirkwall Incident was Uldred's rebellion.
And there was a mage who tried to assinate the Divine.
I can understand why the Templars decided to be more strict as a preventative measure. I may not agree with it, but I understand.
Plus I think Lambert is an Agent of Chaos, so wanted tensions to rise until they reached a boiling point and start a war.
And then there were apparently 2 attempts of Divine Justinia's live by a mage after Kirkwall
I think there was more than just Lambert manipulating the events to the MT war
And then there were apparently 2 attempts of Divine Justinia's live by a mage after Kirkwall
I think there was more than just Lambert manipulating the events to the MT war
Yep.
Oh, I agree there is more than just that. I only mentioned him specifically since we were talking about the Templars getting more strict and that is one reason I think they did.
Here is a question. Now that the Mage conflict has started what are the mages doing to survive? Sure they might have supporters, but considering that most of them have lived in the tower all their lives for the most part. I have a hard time buying that many are the hardy outdoors type.
How would they get food, shelter and clothing and lyrium to fight this war against the templars?
Well, it was Kirkwall, where there were literally gangs of blood mages prowling the streets.
And only a few years before the Kirkwall Incident was Uldred's rebellion.
And there was a mage who tried to assassinate the Divine.
So I can understand why the Templars decided to be more strict as a preventative measure. I may not agree with it, but I understand.
Plus I think Lambert is an Agent of Chaos, so wanted tensions to rise until they reached a boiling point and start a war.
Here is a question. Now that the Mage conflict has started what are the mages doing to survive? Sure they might have supporters, but considering that most of them have lived in the tower all their lives for the most part. I have a hard time buying that many are the hardy outdoors type.
How would they get food, shelter and clothing and lyrium to fight this war against the templars?
Maybe some Circle mages aren't the outdoors type but they have connections to apostates who are via Mage's collective and their grand enchanter is a former grey warden who knows how to plan a war. You really underestimate the mages, not all of them are meek bookworms. take this first enchanter for example:
When we heard of the injustices against our fellow mages at the White Spire, the Circle of Magi in Val Royeux, I feared what was to come. Our Circle at Dairsmuid is small and isolated; it exists largely as a facade to appease the Chantry.
When the other Circle rose up, the Chantry sent Seekers across the bay from Ayesleigh to investigate. They found us mixing freely with our families, training female mages in the traditions of the seers, and denounced us as apostates. Perhaps they thought we were spineless robes who could be intimidated with a little bloodshed. Before I was First Enchanter, I was the daughter of Captain Revaud, of the Felicisima Armada. I know how to plan a battle.
They brought with them a small army of templars. We fought. And we might have won. But they invoked the Right of Annulment, with all the unrelenting brutality that followed. It is their right to put screaming apprentices to the sword, burn our "tainted" libraries, crush irreplaceable artifacts under their heels, tear down the very walls of our home. No mage has the right to disagree.
We of the Dairsmuid Circle wait now, behind barricades. I have sent word to our brother and sister mages of this outrage. When they break through, we will not die alone.
--Final journal entry of First Enchanter Rivella, slain in Dairsmuid, 9:40 Dragon
**** you, Anders. Just **** you.
That is some seriously messed up ****.
Excellent.
Yeah I actually believe he is reliable. When my Hawke gets killed, i can count on Anders to patch me up. And he's the only one who didn't sell my Hawke out in the Fade. He may manipulate Hawke for his cause, but he'll never leave my Hawke for dead. Look at what hoops he jumped for his friend Karl.
i absolutely agree with this. He even did not want me to get implicated and allowed me (a non-judge in court or inquisitor or whatever law-decision maker in Kirkwall) to kill him. All in all, i think he is a true friend who just happens to be a terrorist or sorts. While I condemn his actions, I do not judge him and certainly will not kill him. I leave it to himself or the court. that is the way u should do to true friends.
as for the mo****f***** Sebastian, threatening an army on me just because i refused to kill my friend/lover just shows how much he lacks of loyalty. sure, he can walk away and not take part in the final battle because he do not want to be anywhere near Anders, it is ok. But threatening an army on Kirkwall, killing a bunch of civilians in the process to look for one mage for revenge is much much much much worse than Anders.
He also happen to forget that i am the one who lead him to the path of accepting his position as the Prince of Starkhaven, kill his family's murderers and recovered his lost bow for him. yet, he has no qualm about killing me and coming with a army when Kirkwall is already in danger! besides, i can even be the viscount and a protector of Kirkwall. yet, i may have to deal with this idiot and his lousy army.
I CANNOT WAIT TO KILL HIM IN DAI. PLEASE ALLOW ME TO DO THAT!
it would be even more bittersweet if Hawke becomes a temporary companion to do just that!
Speaking of rebel mages, this will be my Inquisitor's policy in DA:I:
Actually that goes for Templars who have defied Chantry authority as well.
Both sides are at fault for the conflict, and both sides have committed horrible acts.
Anders blew up the Chantry, knowingly taking dozens, if not hundreds of lives in that one act. In that act, he ended the life of one of Kirkwall's most beloved religious officials. It doesn't really matter that Elthina was acting impotent by not taking sides, or how she may have been silently consenting all of the abuses of power the Templars were committing.
What matters is that Anders used magic, a force much of Thedas fears (and for good reason), to kill a kind, well-loved, grandmotherly priest who had been faithfully serving the city for decades. Even if it was ultimately what was necessary to break the status quo, Anders still ruined the tenuously-built reputation of all mages everywhere, and sentenced many of the people he was trying to free to a quick death.
Part of Anders knew that what he was doing was wrong--it's the reason why he refused to tell Hawke his true purpose, so that his (likely) friend wouldn't be implicated in what he was doing. He did it anyway, partially because he knew that it would instigate a response from Meredith. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Anders comments on her degrading mental state during Act 3. Anders was hoping that Meredith would crack and call for an annulment. The thing is, manipulating an increasingly unstable, paranoid wreck to commit a rash act doesn't say much else besides, "She's crazy, and needs to be removed from power."
On the other hand, we really don't know how much of an influence Justice/Vengeance had on his actions. Also, that the Templars under Meredith's command go along with her order is wrong. Proper procedure has not been followed, and the mages Circle are by no means responsible for Elthina's death. That they go along with Meredith is more a condemnation of how the Chantry chooses templars for their fervency of faith, and not for all the other virtues that would be necessary for watching and guarding people.
The Templars, on the other hand...their abuses have been well-documented in this forum. It doesn't matter if the abuse, rape, murders, etc. occur outside the Circle, or that they may not occur as often as some people imply--the fact that they are committed at all, by a group that is meant to protect Mages alongside watching them, is inexcusable and unforgivable. The fact that the Circles have gone from mage refuges to mage prisons, and that the Templars treat young, frightened mages like hardened apostates, is just as bad.
Allowing Meredith to continue leading Kirkwall's Templar Order, even after her own people have started to notice her sanity slipping is questionable at the very least, and most certainly condemnable. That the other Templars go along with Meredith when she calls an unlawful Right of Annulment on the Kirkwall Circle is criminal, and every one of them are just as culpable as the Circle mages for all the death and destruction and blood magic that occurred during Act 3's climax.
On the other hand, the Templar Order is a religious military organization, in an era when loyalty to faith is of the utmost importance and when you followed the directives of your superiors or "betters" with no questions asked. Cullen refusing to follow Meredith's directive would actually be nigh unthinkable, and Meredith has half a point when she accuses her Knight Captain of being a blood thrall. He's not, but that's not really the point.
What happened afterwards is also the fault of both sides, though, admittedly, slightly less for the mages.
As for Sebastien...give the guy a break! He lost his grandmother-figure, and he's mad with grief. It's if or when he goes through with his threat that we can criticize his actions. As for leaving us if we spare Anders, I don't blame him. Again, he's mad with grief and lashing out. Childish, yes, but not immediately contemptible.
As for killing Anders, I usually do it. I don't like that I could be making him a martyr for the mage rebellion, but IMHO it's a better choice than possibly letting the guy go free, and having no choice in stopping him. He still has to pay for his crimes. Maker save him if he manages to survive that knifing, and meets my qunari mage inquisitor--it will definitely not end well for him. My dalish mage inquisitor, on the other hand, will treat him more fairly. Or at least give him a trial before sentencing him.
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