1260 réponses à ce sujet

[TheLastArchivist]

Demons are former spirits corrupted by their desires. And demons can return to what they were before, but I think that's quite rare.

Hm, the subject would perhaps make a great fanfic...

[Lulupab]

There's no way you're serious. The same Silent Sister in this novel from 20 years before DA:O, is alive and well in Awakening, after having her Taint accelerated to the point of becoming a darkspawn. Ghouls also don't become darkspawn. They just die. Darkspawn also have been shown by all cases, to be immortal unless killed in battle. There's no way you're serious. You just can't be. I'm just going to believe you're a troll and nothing more.

I deliberately said and from lore that the dying time is different in each individual. You have no source or evidence other than a single person who has lived long. A darkspawn is born from a ghoul who have survived the process, some do survive and those become full fledged darkspawn but many die.

This all comes to your comment saying an Anders who doesn't have to go to a calling thanks to Justice is not doing anything special which in fact he does, he never has to go thorough the process of becoming a ghoul or full darkspawn later.

All of the following lores and sources support what I said, I am seriously laughing at the effort.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Ghoul
http://dragonage.wik...ex_entry:_Ghoul
http://dragonage.wik...y:_Armored_Ogre
http://forum.bioware...-eat/?bioware=1 (Gaider blatantly says grey wardens become ghouls and the codex states some die and some become full darkspawns if the survive the process)
http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Darkspawn

[Br3admax]

Gaider can overwrite the opinions of people who don't even know how the Joining works, you do know this? He's kind of the lead writer, I think he knows more than townspeople. David Gaider wrote the book. David Gaider> people in game and you; it's that simple. 

[Lulupab]

Gaider can overwrite the opinions of people who don't even know how the Joining works, you do know this? He's kind of the lead writer, I think he knows more than townspeople. David Gaider wrote the book. David Gaider> people in game and you; it's that simple.

But they are matching . He said grey wardens become ghouls first and then he says ghouls can be come full fledged darkspawn. So ok no problem. He says nothing to contradict the fact that not everyone survive the process of becoming a ghoul or a darkspawn so since its in the game, codex and lore and matches what Gaider said there is no reason not to believe it.

[Br3admax]

But they are matching . He said grey wardens become ghouls first and then he says ghouls can be come full fledged darkspawn. So ok no problem. He says nothing to contradict the fact that not everyone survive the process of becoming a ghoul or a darkspawn so since its in the game, codex and lore and matches what Gaider said there is no reason not to believe it.

Sweet Jesus. The book clearly shows that Grey Wardens go on their Callings so they don't become darkspawn. Those who don't do. That's it. The Taint doesn't kill them when they become "ghouls." Ghouls don't become darkspawn, they just die. They live among the darkspawn and forge armors and weapons for them until they die. Some become broodmothers and live a lot longer. Warden's become darkspawn in earnest, and do not die. Why is this so hard for you?  

[Muspade]

Although this is very fascinating spectating, the darkspawn taint isn't the topic of this thread.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Although this is very fascinating spectating, the darkspawn taint isn't the topic of this thread.

Well, the topic of this thread wasn't the morality of Anders blowing up the Chantry either and whether or not Hawke should murder him for it, but that's mostly what it's been about.

 

Still, this debate is tedious as hell.

[Muspade]

Well, the topic of this thread wasn't the morality of Anders blowing up the Chantry either and whether or not Hawke should murder himd for it,

Atleast it was about Anders.

[Lulupab]

Sweet Jesus. The book clearly shows that Grey Wardens go on their Callings so they don't become darkspawn. Those who don't do. That's it. The Taint doesn't kill them when they become "ghouls." Ghouls don't become darkspawn, they just die. They live among the darkspawn and forge armors and weapons for them until they die. Some become broodmothers and live a lot longer. Warden's become darkspawn in earnest, and do not die. Why is this so hard for you?

No they don't die. Did you even read the novel? Or play Awakening?

Stop making up things and just play the game again. Grey Wardens eventually just become darkspawn like monsters.

Your trolling is self explanatory.

[LOLandStuff]

So, when someone doesn't agree with me he's trolling, huh?

Gotta remember that.

[Br3admax]

So, when someone doesn't agree with me he's trolling, huh?

Gotta remember that.

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the FAQ. 

[Hazegurl]

• Anders: Why do spirits seek out mages? I've always wondered.
• Justice: You speak of demons. I am not a demon.
• Anders: Aren't demons simply spirits with unique and sparkling personalities?
• Justice: They have been perverted by their desires.
• Anders: But what do they want from mages?
• Justice: Perhaps they wish the same as I: silence.

───────

• Anders: Are you saying that you could become a demon, Justice?
• Justice: I said no such thing.
• Anders: You said that demons were spirits perverted by their desires.
• Justice: I have no such desires.
• Anders: You must have some desires...
• Justice: I have none! Desist your questions!

• Aveline: So you're two people, Anders and... Justice?
• Anders: That's not strictly accurate.
• Fenris: Did I hear correctly? You are an... abomination?
• Anders: Why don't you shout? I don't think everyone heard you.
• Fenris: Do you see yourself as harmless, then? An abomination who would never harm someone?
• Isabela: Oh, good. I didn't want to talk to that other guy. You know, the stick-in-the-mud.
• Anders: He can still hear you. Justice and I are one.
• Anders: Anyway, you wanted to talk to me?
• Anders: I guess I had too much anger, once he was inside me. He changed.
• Hawke: So you have a spirit of Justice living in your head?
• Anders: It's not like that, He's gone now. He's part of me...not even the greatest scholar can tell when  I end and he begin.

Straight from the horses mouth. From all of this it seems to me as though the moment Justice sought Anders out he was already a demon, if we are to believe he is even telling the truth about spirits not seeking out mages. Anders only guesses that it was his anger that changed him, which means he has no clue what Justice was when he agreed to host him. He never seemed to catch on to the fact that Justice wanting to be hosted by him  was a dangerous sign that something was wrong.  Even if Justice was truly a "good" spirit, it changed the moment he had desires. The dialogue confirms that Anders is in fact possessed by a demon. There is no on/off switch. He's a demon fused completely and Anders is an abomination. Something he doesn't even deny.  There is no split personality.

[LOLandStuff]

The moment Justice got out of the Fade he started changing.

Some of his dialogs screamed "I wants FEELINGS! Deep feelings!"

Didn't he even ponder prolonging his stay in the mortal world?

[Apostate.]

 

• Anders: Why do spirits seek out mages? I've always wondered.
• Justice: You speak of demons. I am not a demon.
• Anders: Aren't demons simply spirits with unique and sparkling personalities?
• Justice: They have been perverted by their desires.
• Anders: But what do they want from mages?
• Justice: Perhaps they wish the same as I: silence.

───────

• Anders: Are you saying that you could become a demon, Justice?
• Justice: I said no such thing.
• Anders: You said that demons were spirits perverted by their desires.
• Justice: I have no such desires.
• Anders: You must have some desires...
• Justice: I have none! Desist your questions!

• Aveline: So you're two people, Anders and... Justice?
• Anders: That's not strictly accurate.
• Fenris: Did I hear correctly? You are an... abomination?
• Anders: Why don't you shout? I don't think everyone heard you.
• Fenris: Do you see yourself as harmless, then? An abomination who would never harm someone?
• Isabela: Oh, good. I didn't want to talk to that other guy. You know, the stick-in-the-mud.
• Anders: He can still hear you. Justice and I are one.
• Anders: Anyway, you wanted to talk to me?
• Anders: I guess I had too much anger, once he was inside me. He changed.
• Hawke: So you have a spirit of Justice living in your head?
• Anders: It's not like that, He's gone now. He's part of me...not even the greatest scholar can tell when  I end and he begin.

Straight from the horses mouth. From all of this it seems to me as though the moment Justice sought Anders out he was already a demon, if we are to believe he is even telling the truth about spirits not seeking out mages. Anders only guesses that it was his anger that changed him, which means he has no clue what Justice was when he agreed to host him. He never seemed to catch on to the fact that Justice wanting to be hosted by him  was a dangerous sign that something was wrong.  Even if Justice was truly a "good" spirit, it changed the moment he had desires. The dialogue confirms that Anders is in fact possessed by a demon. There is no on/off switch. He's a demon fused completely and Anders is an abomination. Something he doesn't even deny.  There is no split personality.

 

Everyone should feel better now, Anders wasn't even there to be lost.

[Lulupab]

So, when someone doesn't agree with me he's trolling, huh?

Gotta remember that.

 

When they contradict themselves. Did you actually read what he wrote?

[LOLandStuff]

When they contradict themselves. Did you actually read what he wrote?

 

I did. But then again, I'm not the one getting all worked up over everything and making up excuses because I can't deal with something that doesn't go the way I want.

[Lulupab]

I did. But then again, I'm not the one getting all worked up over everything and making up excuses because I can't deal with something that doesn't go the way I want.

 

Whatever do you mean. At least I am quite open about it being my opinion and not shoving it down people's throat as a fact. Also this is getting off-topic.

[LOLandStuff]

nvm

On topic then.

 

I'd like for Anders to return even if killed, but as Vengeance in Anders' corpse. That guy is just dead set on a rampage.

[Sir DeLoria]

I'd like for Anders to return even if killed, but as Vengeance in Anders' corpse. That guy is just dead set on a rampage.

A vengeful-demon-zombie-apostate-ex-grey-warden-mage?

[Lulupab]

If they are going to mess it up which they do often I rather he doesn't return. The thought of him getting away from Kirkwall and being alive is enough.

[LOLandStuff]

A vengeful-demon-zombie-apostate-ex-grey-warden-mage?

 

Yes please.

 

If Fiona can have that much baggage, then why not Anders/Justice/Vengeance?

[Lulupab]

One of the things Justice or Anders can do is curing tranquils, based on the revealed information on the cure they are perfectly capable of doing it. Given that Anders kept his clinic until the very last minutes of act3 I don't see why he can't go on a tranquil curing spree in DA:I if he is alive, maybe Justice can do that without Anders as well...

[Nharia1]

One of the things Justice or Anders can do is curing tranquils, based on the revealed information on the cure they are perfectly capable of doing it. Given that Anders kept his clinic until the very last minutes of act3 I don't see why he can't go on a tranquil curing spree in DA:I if he is alive, maybe Justice can do that without Anders as well...

wasn't that only a temporary thing?

[LOLandStuff]

Maybe instead of killing Karl he could've helped and tried curing him since it did slightly return him to his senses once Justice emerged. it's not like there was anyone there to stop them since they were all dead.

If he refused, then just whack him on the head and drag him to the clinic.

[Lulupab]

wasn't that only a temporary thing?

 
Justice had to touch his mind, he simply cast magic near him which caused temporary cure, besides they introduced the cure after DA2 so it couldn't have happened in that game. Also @ LOLandStuff
 
The interesting thing however which is automatically decided is the fact that possessed mages are immune to tranquility. Their connection to the fade can never be severed when they have a piece of fade itself living inside them, shining like a beacon, literally in Andes' case. This means their mind is constantly touched by a fade spirit and unless we can cure possession too such mages are immune to tranquility.