This OP really seems like concern-trolling to me. "Oh no! The BORING people want to make characters that are ATTRACTIVE!"
Meh. Make what you want, don't worry about what others want in their games. Who gives a crap?
Either that or is just proves people will actively look for things to complain about.
For instances. The Inquisitor uses paper for his maps. I find this offensive on behalf of trees.
If only there was some sort of way that some individuals could have attractive protagonists, whilst others had unattractive ones. Some sort of character designing option that would allow us all to create a variety of different looks and faces that appeal to our own preferences.
Alas such a gaming mechanic would render this debate pointless.
If only there was some sort of way that some people could have attractive protagonists, whilst others had more unattractive ones. Some sort of character designing option that would allow us all to create a variety of different looks and faces that appeal to our own preferences.
Alas such a gaming mechanic would render this "debate" pointless.
You speak of sorcery which hasn't be discovered yet.
See, that is where you are wrong. Physical attractiveness is not the end all be all for me. There have bee. Many times where I gravitated towards the female who is supposedly "less attractive" over the female who appears to be the "gem".
Yes, once upon a time I was all about the looks, but as I matures and experienced women sexually, emotionally, and intellectually, looks became less and less relevant.
No. She's not wrong. It doesn't actually matter what you think and feel about the subject, she's right. Right now you're just saying how you feel on the matter, she one the other hand is stating a fact. Looks DO matter to a lot of people if not ALL of them.
"You don't debate objective fact, you can only state how much is subjectively matters to you."
Anyway I prefer my PC's to be attractive, male or female I view attractiveness as an important tool and trait.
If only there was some sort of way that some individuals could have attractive protagonists, whilst others had unattractive ones. Some sort of character designing option that would allow us all to create a variety of different looks and faces that appeal to our own preferences.
Alas such a gaming mechanic would render this debate pointless.
but but.. the op needs to show us how progressive and mature he is....but yes one wonders when such an invention will come to be 
ah i can only weep over the uncertainty
This OP really seems like concern-trolling to me. "Oh no! The BORING people want to make characters that are ATTRACTIVE!"
Meh. Make what you want, don't worry about what others want in their games. Who gives a crap?
This is a discussion about the approach people take when creating their characters. If you don't care, then why post?
I respect everyone's choice in how they create their characters. My inquiry is to just know why people take the approach they do. It is no different than asking why people choose to play a certain class or choose to romance a certain companion. What really got me interested is when some people made comments like, "Well I am normal looking in real life so thus I want to create an attractive person in the game...." which implies (in my perspective) that being normal looking isn't attractive and that to be attractive, you must look like Charlize Theron. Again, there is nothing wrong if you think that is attractive, I just wanted to find out how people approach this.
There is nothing wrong if you want your characters to be like super models if that is your taste. I do believe that sort of thinking is a result of social engineering of what ideal beauty is. I understand that this is a fantasy game and thus I guess many people create their "ideal" characters of men and women in terms of beauty, strength, and masculinity. But I just wanted to see if there are any gamers out there who do like to stay grounded with their characters or change it up a bit like creating a female with some sort of "masculine" features such as Aveline in DA2. What I found out thus far in this thread is that most gamers are dominated by the impression of mainstream beauty which isn't bad as it confirmed my hypothesis, but like all inquiries, I expected some sort of variance.
In the end, you create who or what you want. Male, female, gay, straight, bi, attractive, unattractive etc. I am sure that once the game releases, there will be the inevitable thread about "Post your Inquisitor photos" or something of the like. It will be interesting to see if the trend continues or not.
Maybe it is because I am such an open minded guy but I always find those women who use little to NO makeup to be very attractive. For some weird reason, I am always turned off by those women who always use makeup in an excessive manner. To me to tells me that they value their looks more than anything while those women who do not wear makeup are comfortable with who they are naturally and do not need to wear makeup to appear within the guidelines of what mainstream beauty is, as you described in your post.
For real? Look, I agree that no makeup is plenty attractive, but that doesn't make you "open minded" when in the same thread you say you want to KILL a character because you think his head is too small.
No. She's not wrong. It doesn't actually matter what you think and feel about the subject, she's right. Right now you're just saying how you feel on the matter, she one the other hand is stating a fact. Looks DO matter to a lot of people if not ALL of them.
"You don't debate objective fact, you can only state how much is subjectively matters to you."
Anyway I prefer my PC's to be attractive, male or female I view attractiveness as an important tool and trait.
Lol, it is not a fact that looks do matter to everyone. As I have said, there have been plenty of times where I would approach or rather date the female who is considered a...."6" over the female who is considered the "9" or "10", even when the latter was interested in me, I would still go for the "6". Not to be a contrarian, but many times that "6" would have more in common with me intellectually, spiritually, and personally. If what she said was true about looks mattering to all of us, then why did I go the route that did.
Again, she is wrong. Mabye looks is important to her and you, but please do not push that ideology on everyone else because you want them to be like you.
For real? Look, I agree that no makeup is plenty attractive, but that doesn't make you "open minded" when in the same thread you say you want to KILL a character because you think his head is too small.
Yes, I want to kill Iron Bull because he looks silly. Whether you took that seriously or not is up to you.
If only there was some sort of way that some individuals could have attractive protagonists, whilst others had unattractive ones. Some sort of character designing option that would allow us all to create a variety of different looks and faces that appeal to our own preferences.
Alas such a gaming mechanic would render this debate pointless.
Funny, cause this thread isn't about attractiveness vs unattractive. But rather grounded perceptions of beauty vs mainstream perceptions of beauty.
Lol, it is not a fact that looks do matter to everyone.
Looks DO matter to a lot of people if not ALL of them.
Does this look like I said everyone? No, I didn't. I said to a lot of people, not all but to a lot.
Note how I also didn't say looks are the only thing that matter, they are a factor, they are a tool, and if someone is unpleasant enough they can be ignored.
This is a discussion about the approach people take when creating their characters. If you don't care, then why post?
I respect everyone's choice in how they create their characters. My inquiry is to just know why people take the approach they do. It is no different than asking why people choose to play a certain class or choose to romance a certain companion. What really got me interested is when some people made comments like, "Well I am normal looking in real life so thus I want to create an attractive person in the game...." which implies (in my perspective) that being normal looking isn't attractive and that to be attractive, you must look like Charlize Theron. Again, there is nothing wrong if you think that is attractive, I just wanted to find out how people approach this.
There is nothing wrong if you want your characters to be like super models if that is your taste. I do believe that sort of thinking is a result of social engineering of what ideal beauty is. I understand that this is a fantasy game and thus I guess many people create their "ideal" characters of men and women in terms of beauty, strength, and masculinity. But I just wanted to see if there are any gamers out there who do like to stay grounded with their characters or change it up a bit like creating a female with some sort of "masculine" features such as Aveline in DA2. What I found out thus far in this thread is that most gamers are dominated by the impression of mainstream beauty which isn't bad as it confirmed my hypothesis, but like all inquiries, I expected some sort of variance.
In the end, you create who or what you want. Male, female, gay, straight, bi, attractive, unattractive etc. I am sure that once the game releases, there will be the inevitable thread about "Post your Inquisitor photos" or something of the like. It will be interesting to see if the trend continues or not.
except that there are objective beauty standards which i pointed out, and our backed up by research. look up Stephen marquardt particularly his study on cross cultural beauty preferences, even people from cultures that have no contact with modern society,modern beauty ideals and technology, rate facial beauty in a similar way.
i have done my fair share of "homework" in regards to facial proportions, beauty and features that are considered attractive and so on. Based on this ive come to the conlusion, that there are infact certain ratios and facial proportions that are universally considered more attractive than others. They have done studies where they placed about a 20 or so female faces, with varying degrees of beauty on a photo, their skin was greyed out and hair and other things were also taken out of the equation. The scientist who conducted this research traveled across the world, even places that do not have contact with modern society and technology. even those that do not have access to modern technology or have contact with modern "western" beauty ideals, all agreed at which place from most attractive to least these female faces belonged. The most attractive females had larger eyes and fuller lips, with more "average" proportions, and average in this context pertains to certain ratios in the face, the distance between eyes, nose etc that are considered "pleasant" or "undeviating" to the human eye.
Quite frankly it makes my stomach turn when people pull out phony ass progressive bs to make themselves sound all progressive and nice. Every single dude ive met and the people ive interacted with reveal themselves to be equally shallow, when called out on it the biggest excuse being that they cant help themselves because they are biologically built to have those preferences so it doesnt make them shallow. like wtf? doesnt matter why you are shallow ******, youre still shallow. Every guy ive met still reacts very favorably to a conventionally pretty face, despite what they say or how much progressive new age bs they pull out of their ass, to sound all deep and intellectual. Women also typically agree which women are attractive around them.
All that being said there are cultural aspects to it, for instance some countries theres the whole neck elongating thing. but the females who have highly attractive faces, will still be more attractive than the average woman no matter what social beauty ideals their culture adheres to. In our society skinny is in, but certain female faces are more attractive to a larger group of peope than others even if they are both attached to a skinny womans body.
Personally in video games, i like making characters that are beautiful,because why not? i think its fun and i enjoy seeing my beautiful char interact with the world they are in.
Lol, who said anything about being progressive? Why is it that whenever someone stands behind an ideal that isn't largely accepted by society they have to be labeled as TRYING to be progressive? Perhaps people just are who they are and they aren't trying to be social pioneers but rather themselves. Or is that too hard for you to comprehend?
I am sorry that the men you have incountered in life seem to be shallow, but do not for one second try to bridge that attitude on ALL men because that just isn't true. Also that "women know which women around them are attractive" bs because that isn't ALWAYS true. Perhaps your ideal of attractiveness could be different from mine such as skin tone, hair texture, facial features, and body type. If a group of women believe narrow faces, light/tan skin, narrow nose, vibrant eye colors, and fair hair to be attractive, well perhaps I guess that female with darker skin, round face, full lips, and coarse hair would not be singled out as being attractive by these group of females because they are going off of what THEY feel to be attractive for women.....but does this make that darker skinned female unnattractive to other women/men?
Variance, understand it.
Lol, it is not a fact that looks do matter to everyone. As I have said, there have been plenty of times where I would approach or rather date the female who is considered a...."6" over the female who is considered the "9" or "10", even when the latter was interested in me, I would still go for the "6". Not to be a contrarian, but many times that "6" would have more in common with me intellectually, spiritually, and personally. If what she said was true about looks mattering to all of us, then why did I go the route that did.
Again, she is wrong. Mabye looks is important to her and you, but please do not push that ideology on everyone else because you want them to be like you.
Yes, I want to kill Iron Bull because he looks silly. Whether you took that seriously or not is up to you.
Funny, cause this thread isn't about attractiveness vs unattractive. But rather grounded perceptions of beauty vs mainstream perceptions of beauty.
for someone who supposedly isnt shallow youre pretty good at quantifying peoples looks on a numbers scale. What do you want, a cookie for dating the 6? oh im sure she is soooooo lucky to be "blessed" with your attention.
Funny, cause this thread isn't about attractiveness vs unattractive. But rather grounded perceptions of beauty vs mainstream perceptions of beauty.
No, this thread is about you trying to convince us all of how magnanimous and wonderful and smart you are in being attracted to less-than-perfect people, never quite seeming to get that SO ARE THE REST OF US.
You claim not to be making value judgments, but your language belies your claims.
And now I'm done, because life is too short.
for someone who supposedly isnt shallow youre pretty good at quantifying peoples looks on a numbers scale. What do you want, a cookie for dating the 6? oh im sure she is soooooo lucky to be "blessed" with your attention.
No, I do not want a cookie. I am just posting my rebuttal to an arguement that states that we as man ALWAYS go far the percieved "more attractive" female. While MOST men would, not ALL men do.
i have done my fair share of "homework" in regards to facial proportions, beauty and features that are considered attractive and so on. Based on this ive come to the conlusion, that there are infact certain ratios and facial proportions that are universally considered more attractive than others. They have done studies where they placed about a 20 or so female faces, with varying degrees of beauty on a photo, their skin was greyed out and hair and other things were also taken out of the equation. The scientist who conducted this research traveled across the world, even places that do not have contact with modern society and technology. even those that do not have access to modern technology or have contact with modern "western" beauty ideals, all agreed at which place from most attractive to least these female faces belonged. The most attractive females had larger eyes and fuller lips, with more "average" proportions, and average in this context pertains to certain ratios in the face, the distance between eyes, nose etc that are considered "pleasant" or "undeviating" to the human eye.
Quite frankly it makes my stomach turn when people pull out phony ass progressive bs to make themselves sound all progressive and nice. Every single dude ive met and the people ive interacted with reveal themselves to be equally shallow, when called out on it the biggest excuse being that they cant help themselves because they are biologically built to have those preferences so it doesnt make them shallow. like wtf? doesnt matter why you are shallow ******, youre still shallow. Every guy ive met still reacts very favorably to a conventionally pretty face, despite what they say or how much progressive new age bs they pull out of their ass, to sound all deep and intellectual. Women also typically agree which women are attractive around them.
All that being said there are cultural aspects to it, for instance some countries theres the whole neck elongating thing. but the females who have highly attractive faces, will still be more attractive than the average woman no matter what social beauty ideals their culture adheres to. In our society skinny is in, but certain female faces are more attractive to a larger group of peope than others even if they are both attached to a skinny womans body.
Personally in video games, i like making characters that are beautiful,because why not? i think its fun and i enjoy seeing my beautiful char interact with the world they are in.
Lol, who said anything about being progressive? Why is it that whenever someone stands behind an ideal that isn't largely accepted by society they have to be labeled as TRYING to be progressive? Perhaps people just are who they are and they aren't trying to be social pioneers but rather themselves.
I am sorry that the men you have encountered in life seem to be shallow, but do not for one second try to bridge that attitude on ALL men because that just isn't true. Also that "women know which women around them are attractive" bs because that isn't ALWAYS true. Perhaps your ideal of attractiveness could be different from mine such as skin tone, hair texture, facial features, and body type. If a group of women believe narrow faces, light/tan skin, narrow nose, vibrant eye colors, and fair hair to be attractive, well perhaps I guess that female with darker skin, round face, full lips, and coarse hair would not be singled out as being attractive by these group of females because they are going off of what THEY feel to be attractive for women.....but does this make that darker skinned female unnattractive to ALL other women/men?
Variance, understand it.
No, this thread is about you trying to convince us all of how magnanimous and wonderful and smart you are in being attracted to less-than-perfect people, never quite seeming to get that SO ARE THE REST OF US.
You claim not to be making value judgments, but your language belies your claims.
And now I'm done, because life is too short.
If that is how you comprehended this thread then that is up to you. But if you go back to my OP, I never said that I am smart or wonderful because of how I want to create my characters. Again, if that is how you perceive it than cool, but that is not my intent and if I came across that way, then my mistake. I simply just want to explore why people go the route they do when creating characters and if there is some sort of narrative behind it.
Lol, it is not a fact that looks do matter to everyone. As I have said, there have been plenty of times where I would approach or rather date the female who is considered a...."6" over the female who is considered the "9" or "10", even when the latter was interested in me, I would still go for the "6". Not to be a contrarian, but many times that "6" would have more in common with me intellectually, spiritually, and personally. If what she said was true about looks mattering to all of us, then why did I go the route that did.
Again, she is wrong. Mabye looks is important to her and you, but please do not push that ideology on everyone else because you want them to be like you.
Yes, I want to kill Iron Bull because he looks silly. Whether you took that seriously or not is up to you.
Funny, cause this thread isn't about attractiveness vs unattractive. But rather grounded perceptions of beauty vs mainstream perceptions of beauty.
Im pretty sure you can make faces that only a mother can love in DAI CC, or in most Bioware games really..........
Theres no reason you cant make a female version of this monstrosity lol.
thats not "only mother would love", thats "mother would toss in the river"
What is the point of this thread?
What is the point of this thread?
The OP smugly stroking his ego on the internetz, I believe.
Guest_Caladin_*
I always try and make my characters attractive to my eyes, but honestly most times in a BioWare game i cant because i feel there CC is so limited, hence mods, and then well its only the head i can for the most part mod, im stuck with the body type which for the most part i dislike since well like every other game they just go with the "media" stereotyping of how male n female "heroes" should look.
When i can mod a body i normally add a lot more weight to it because for me it is attractive, thats what i like to look at, im the same as most ppl, im not going to sit and make a character in a rpg i do not like the look of, sorry i just cant do it.
EDIT: i understand why we only get one body type, i dont need to like it though 
Well, aren't you progressive. That six must have felt so wonderful that you didn't find her as attractive as the ten, but chose her anyway.
If you purposely chose someone based in their looks, regardless of what those looks represent, then please. If you go out of your way to choose someone less attractive and appealing to you because that is what you prefer, then aren't you the one letting social conditioning dictate whom you find "attractive"? And it's reverse shallowism(I know, I made that word up), simply because you're still initially choosing someone based on how they look.
You know, unless you are just fullfilling your social duty and dating the less attractive girls because you don't want to be a conformist. If so, carry on. I am sure all the "six" girls will thank you for it.
Sigh, please read. I never said that I purposely go out of my way to date the perceived lesser attractive women over the perceived more attractive woman. I said that while both were attractive to men, sometimes I would go for the perceived lesser attractive woman BECAUSE the perceived lesser attractive woman has qualities that I like more that perhaps the perceived more attractive female does not have. I like to talk about foreign policy, so if the more attractive female finds that silly, of course I will ignore her and gravitate towards the female who finds it cool or even sexy, even if that female is perceived to be less attractive by mainstream society.
Funny, cause this thread isn't about attractiveness vs unattractive. But rather grounded perceptions of beauty vs mainstream perceptions of beauty.
What is a grounded perception of beauty exactly? The argument firmly remains in the same never ending cycle of "Eye of the Beholder." One can find someone attractive who is famous and someone who is not for both the same and different reasons.
As I said, if only we could make our Inquisitor look however we liked and not have to worry about these other individuals narrow views on beauty in the game. Ah the road not taken....
If that is how you comprehended this thread then that is up to you. But if you go back to my OP, I never said that I am smart or wonderful because of how I want to create my characters. Again, if that is how you perceive it than cool, but that is not my intent and if I came across that way, then my mistake. I simply just want to explore why people go the route they do when creating characters and if there is some sort of narrative behind it.
have you ever heard of something called "humble bragging"?, its when someone tries to wrap something they perceive to be grand,wonderful, unique and revolutionary about themselves in a little bundle of humility, your posts here reek of it. Its kind of funny that you are so unaware of it yourself
I always try and make my characters attractive to my eyes, but honestly most times in a BioWare game i cant because i feel there CC is so limited, hence mods, and then well its only the head i can for the most part mod, im stuck with the body type which for the most part i dislike since well like every other game they just go with the "media" stereotyping of how male n female "heroes" should look.
When i can mod a body i normally add a lot more weight to it because for me it is attractive, thats what i like to look at, im the same as most ppl, im not going to sit and make a character in a rpg i do not like the look of, sorry i just cant do it.
Well thanks Caladin for your insightful post. At least you understand what this thread is about and not joining the circus of replies like everyone else.
As to your reply, you bring up a good point about body type. If it was up to me, I would also like to have sliders to change the body type of women from the typical slender to a bit more of different styles and looks. I remember with SWTOR, most if of the female characters are all of the slender type (options 1 and 2 for SWTOR character creator). But rarely did you ever see female characters with body option #3 which was a bit more muscular and option #4 which was a bit more...."thick" or whatever you may call it but with thicker thighs, butt, and sort of hint of fat in the face. Options #3 and #4 you rarely see in SWTOR for women. Yet with the male characters, you see a good variety of all 4 body types.
Again, there is nothing wrong with that as we all have our taste. 
And there is nothing wrong with wanting to create a character who looks appealing to your eyes. It is your game, do what you want.
Again, thanks for the insightful reply.
have you ever heard of something called "humble bragging"?, its when someone tries to wrap something they perceive to be grand,wonderful, unique and revolutionary about themselves in a little bundle of humility, your posts here reek of it. Its kind of funny that you are so unaware of it yourself
Well if that is how you percieve my post, then I am sorry. I did not attend for it to be that way. Just know that I am only expressing my opinions just as you are expressing yours. I cannot help how people comprehend my message. Again, believe what you want for I cannot stop you.
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