1757 réponses à ce sujet

[efd731]

so if you watched the recent stream you probably saw the convo with Vivienne where she essentially mocks the rebellious mages for being selfish childish narcissistic brats. All they cared about was the templars being mean to them and the events of asunder i'm assuming, ignoring the fact that they lived luxurious lives completely away from the suffering of the average thedosian, who probably viewed them less than charitably after Anders little stunt and several attempts on the life of the divine,  which i found to be both hilarious and accurate.  what did you guys think, was she right? or at least interesting

[Spectre Impersonator]

I think she should grow out her fro.

[SilentCid]

so if you watched the recent stream you probably saw the convo with Vivienne where she essentially mocks the rebellious mages for being selfish childish narcissistic brats. All they cared about was the templars being mean to them and the events of asunder i'm assuming, ignoring the fact that they lived luxurious lives completely away from the suffering of the average thedosian, who probably viewed them less than charitably after Anders little stunt and several attempts on the life of the divine,  which i found to be both hilarious and accurate.  what did you guys think, was she right? or at least interesting

 

It certainly put mages more in a bad light from a common folk perspective.

[veeia]

We have no idea what perspective Viv is coming from (ie we don't know what her life as a Mage was like or how she's come to these conclusions or other relevant info that would provide context there) so it's really hard for me to take anything away from it, other than it is a very interesting perspective that I don't fully agree with but want to hear more about.

[Patchwork]

I think I saw a Fiona conversation option which means we probably meet her. 

 

We know Viv is pro circle so her take on the mage rebellion is in character. 

[Beerfish]

She gained 100 credibility notches with that little speech.  Now part of it is that she has a large stake in all of this, if she was a 1st enchanter she had a lot of influence and power that she may now be lacking.  At least she told it the way it is.

[MissOuJ]

Not really surprised she'd be anti-rebellion: she had a pretty high position in the Circle, and the rebellion ruined that. Seeing that she's been described as "ambitious" and the rebellion smashed her plans to smitherines, I kinda understand her bitterness. I still disagree with her, though.

[herkles]

I like playing things not if I agree with her but what my characters believe. My human noble lady for one will definatly be in agreement with her.

 

Here is what is said. 

 

Spoiler

Inquisitor: Tell me about the Circle of Magi.

 

Vivienne: Of course. Tell me what you wish to know.

 

Inquisitor: How did we come to this state, with the Circles in revolt?

 

Vivienne: You, my dear, are far too wise to have not realized that many of our colleagues live with their eyes closed. Safe inside their towers, they only thought of the Templars and their own resentment. Kirkwall gave the world a reason to remember its fear of magic. A mage killed hundreds with a snap of their fingers. Across Thedas, a new tangible fear of magic grew. Commoners and nobles alike called out to the Chantry for protection. But the malcontents in the towers thought nothing of this.

 

They cared only for themselves and their anger at the new Templar restrictions. When a mage attempted to assassinate Divine Justinia, again, the mages protested the investigation. The leadership chose to vote on independence based on the intolerable conditions imposed by the Templars, sparing no thought to the fact that magic was more feared in the aftermath of these attacks than it had been since Tevinter's day. So long as they have their freedom, they could care little for riots or angry mobs or pitting mages against each other.

[efd731]

Not really surprised she'd be anti-rebellion: she had a pretty high position in the Circle, and the rebellion ruined that. Seeing that she's been described as "ambitious" and the rebellion smashed her plans to smitherines, I kinda understand her bitterness. I still disagree with her, though.

 

but she never said that they were wrong to do so, or that it was bad. just that the mages were completely unprepared for reality and on top of that were ridiculously Niave and ignorant. which i mean, is very true.

[Beerfish]

Not really surprised she'd be anti-rebellion: she had a pretty high position in the Circle, and the rebellion ruined that. Seeing that she's been described as "ambitious" and the rebellion smashed her plans to smitherines, I kinda understand her bitterness. I still disagree with her, though.

She seems to be stating facts as it relates to what has happened, just as some of us speculated the circles going away just means that most of the population is scared shi*less of mages and are more apt to 'Burn the witch!' than before.  she also made it clear that the ones who forced the issue didn't really think or give a spit about the tons of mages that supported towers.

[Kantr]

Seeing as Fiona is the Grand Enchanter and you are asking about mages. It would be appropriate to ask about her even if not meeting her. She might be dead anyway

[ArvinDulku]

I wanted to clap my hands and hug her.

...Though I have a feeling she might not appreciate it.
 
Never before have I heard the obvious stupidity and utter callousness of a mage rebellion put forth so beautifully.
 
Bravo, Viv my dear, bravo.

....

****, the way this is going I might never use Solas at all.

Dammit.

[thedancingdruid]

I wanted to clap my hand and hug her.

..Though I have a feeling she might not appreciate it.
 
Never before have I heard the obvious stupidity and utter callousness of a mage rebellion put forth so beautifully.
 
Bravo, Viv my dear, bravo.

....

****, the way this is going I might never use Solas at all.

Dammit.

 

Ser Alrik and Ella say hi.

[Yinello]

Viv thinks it's stupid that rebelling mages can't see they're throwing more oil on the fire Anders created and I agree.

[ShadowLordXII]

She seems to be stating facts as it relates to what has happened, just as some of us speculated the circles going away just means that most of the population is scared shi*less of mages and are more apt to 'Burn the witch!' than before.  she also made it clear that the ones who forced the issue didn't really think or give a spit about the tons of mages that supported towers.

 

Thanks Anders.

 

Though I hope that we're able to heavily disagree with her in conversation. The system was inherently designed to fail with or without Anders taking a level in stupid.

[Hazegurl]

Viv and I are gonna be BFF. I just know it.

[ArvinDulku]

Ser Alrik and Ella say hi.

Multiple Blood Mages/Maleficar doing horrible, disgusting things to people like feeding them to demons (like Kevan) say hi too.

...

That argument does not work and is stupid. Should I judge all mages by the action of blood mages?

[MissOuJ]

She seems to be stating facts as it relates to what has happened, just as some of us speculated the circles going away just means that most of the population is scared shi*less of mages and are more apt to 'Burn the witch!' than before.  she also made it clear that the ones who forced the issue didn't really think or give a spit about the tons of mages that supported towers.

 

Maybe it's because I'm ESL, but in my opinion she seemed to be saying that the Circle mages were too sheltered and didn't know how good they had it. Which... just no. We saw what was going on in Kirkwall (again, Alrik and his Tranquil harem) and apparently it wasn't that good in other Circles either (the Annulment of the Circle in Rivain, the fact that the Templars in the White Spire got away with murder - quite literally), so I'd say the mages really didn't have it all that good.

 

Her points about the regular people and their fears are true, however, and its not irrelevant in any way.

[Ryzaki]

Ser Alrik and Ella say hi.

 

You say that like abuses like that don't happen in every system ever.

 

Not once did Vivi say all templars were flawless.

[InfinitePaths]

Her argument is basically that rebel mages are acting like rebelious teenagers that don't think about the concequences of their actions and don't realise how lucky they are with their position.

 

 

And honestly...

 

She is right.

[Medhia_Nox]

See as she and I seem to have the exact same opinion on what will be in game "our fellow mages" - we're going to get along just fine.

 

I'm glad to see that she confirms many of the things I've said all along about the total folly of this rebellion.

 

She is stating facts - this happened, people got more scared - there's not a single opinion there.  Her opinion is in her tone of derision for the rebels... which I will share.

 

She isn't saying everything was perfect in the Circles - she was saying what was done and how it was done was the height of stupidity and I am in absolute agreement.

[Patchwork]

There was never going to be a good time for the mages to rebel. The aftermath of Kirkwall just gave the most mages the most reason to go through with it.  

 

And of course mages are naive and only think of the hatred of templars, they're locked in a tower with no other outside contact. 

[Eterna]

I agree with her. And I also find what she said to be hilarious and on point. 

[efd731]

Thanks Anders.

 

Though I hope that we're able to heavily disagree with her in conversation. The system was inherently designed to fail with or without Anders taking a level in stupid.

 

but thats not what the conversation is about its about the rebel mages being incredibly unaware of conditions outside the circles, ignoring how the populace theyre gonna be around feels about them, and ignoring the massive amount of mages that didnt want to rebel.

[Yggdrasil]

I found her little speech incredibly annoying.  She's too smug and opinionated for me, which is a shame because I think she's got an amazing look, but I don't think I'll be taking her around much.  Kinda like Fenris or Morrigan.  I loved Fenris' voice and Morrigan's look, but I couldn't stand their personalities.

 

(This, by the way, isn't a criticism of Bioware's ability to create characters...it's a testament to their skill at it.  The fact that they can make such fleshed out characters that I find them annoying is amazing.)