Aller au contenu

Photo

Vivienne's opinions on rebel mages (maybe spoilers)


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
1751 réponses à ce sujet

#301
Shahadem

Shahadem
  • Members
  • 1 389 messages

It's fine to fear the power of someone powerful. But to lock them up or to kill them because you are afraid of what they might do is wrong. We all have the potential for harm. Not on the same level of mages but enough to be somewhat wary of one another in certain situations and to also take comfort in the fact that we have such an effective law enforcement system.

 

The Templars can be such a system in Thedas. The people (mages+mundanes) can take comfort in the protection of a Templar force that acts in many ways like a police force. Patrols, investigations etc. They have mages in their ranks so it isn't a "us vs them" thing. Everyone working together for the protection of everyone.

 

Treating mages badly no matter how justified someone may feel about it, will always cause more conflict. It's best to attempt to avoid conflict by trying to find a way to please both parties and getting them to work together.

 

Well, POTUS has the power to launch nuclear bombs, but instead of locking him up so he doesn't abuse that power we make him the figurehead of the country.

 

Saying that we need to impinge on someone's freedom just because they are more powerful feels like an empty argument. I mean should we lock people up because they have more money and thus more power? Because they have a sword and thus are more powerful? What about political power? Social power? Or what about someone who has ample food to eat in a town where everyone else is so malnourished they can barely get out of bed. Should that person be locked up because they are more powerful than the malnourished citizens?



#302
Guest_Puddi III_*

Guest_Puddi III_*
  • Guests

>Vivienne calling other people narcissistic



#303
herkles

herkles
  • Members
  • 1 902 messages

Orsino was not a blood mage. He was only helping one.

uhm, you are forgetting that boss fight at the end of the game with him when he says "meredith expects blood magic? I will give it to her. maker help us all" then he transforms into that harvester monster. 



#304
Chiramu

Chiramu
  • Members
  • 2 388 messages

It certainly put mages more in a bad light from a common folk perspective.

 

Because mages were always in a good light? :P People that were afraid of mages will be afraid of mages, it's a bit like the irrational mage fear of templars. Yes there are some bad ones, there will always be bad eggs but that is no reason to be prejudice against all of them.

 

Solas, I think will be my main mage. He is most reasonable.  



#305
Shahadem

Shahadem
  • Members
  • 1 389 messages

uhm, you are forgetting that boss fight at the end of the game with him when he says "meredith expects blood magic? I will give it to her. maker help us all" then he transforms into that harvester monster. 

 

He wasn't a blood mage even then. He turned himself into a flesh golem. So he was a flesh golem for that fight and not a mage.



#306
leaguer of one

leaguer of one
  • Members
  • 9 995 messages

uhm, you are forgetting that boss fight at the end of the game with him when he says "meredith expects blood magic? I will give it to her. maker help us all" then he transforms into that harvester monster. 

He only used blood magic then, magic someone else studied and came up with. He was not using blood magic or a blood mage all along.



#307
wcholcombe

wcholcombe
  • Members
  • 2 738 messages

He wasn't a blood mage even then. He turned himself into a flesh golem. So he was a flesh golem for that fight and not a mage.


No devas have stated it was bliidmagic. I believe they said he didn't truly become a harvester but they reused the asset.

#308
Guest_Puddi III_*

Guest_Puddi III_*
  • Guests

What part of "I will give [blood magic] to her" followed by him using a hideous forbidden technique that is obviously the aforementioned blood magic, does not add up to Orsino being a blood mage? Gosh, the denial.


  • PlasmaCheese aime ceci

#309
AresKeith

AresKeith
  • Members
  • 34 128 messages

He wasn't a blood mage even then. He turned himself into a flesh golem. So he was a flesh golem for that fight and not a mage.

 

Which required blood magic, which makes him a blood mage


  • Han Shot First aime ceci

#310
wcholcombe

wcholcombe
  • Members
  • 2 738 messages

He wasn't a blood mage even then. He turned himself into a flesh golem. So he was a flesh golem for that fight and not a mage.


No the devs have stated it was bloodmagic. I believe they said he didn't truly become a harvester but they reused the asset.

#311
wcholcombe

wcholcombe
  • Members
  • 2 738 messages

He wasn't a blood mage even then. He turned himself into a flesh golem. So he was a flesh golem for that fight and not a mage.


No the devs have stated it was bloodmagic. I believe they said he didn't truly become a harvester but they reused the asset.

#312
Guest_StreetMagic_*

Guest_StreetMagic_*
  • Guests

No the devs have stated it was bloodmagic. I believe they said he didn't truly become a harvester but they reused the asset.

 

edit: nvm



#313
wcholcombe

wcholcombe
  • Members
  • 2 738 messages
Important things to draw from Vs convo

- Hundreds died from Anders actions
- Times were better before Templar crackdown
-Fionna is likely dead. " Did you know, not do you know. This would correlate with what we already know.

BTW, please stop using Kirkwall as a blanket example of circles. In MotE the orlesians even find the treatment of mages in free marches circles abhorrent.

#314
CrazyMooNew

CrazyMooNew
  • Members
  • 119 messages

uhm, you are forgetting that boss fight at the end of the game with him when he says "meredith expects blood magic? I will give it to her. maker help us all" then he transforms into that harvester monster. 

 

Eh...I certainly think its debatable. He wasn't technically a blood-mage until he was "forced" to use it...and we see this happening a lot in the lore. When mages are back in a corner and face life or death...they sometimes resort to drastic things like blood magic...or turning themselves into abominations...or what I'm assuming was a mixture of both for Orsino. 

 

But he did read research about it and there were a lot of blood mages in his circle....so I certainly think its possible that Meridith was right, or at least that her suspicions were not founded on corrupted-red-lyrium nonsense (since she certainly had them well before coming into contact with the idol). Whose to say that Orsino didn't practice blood magic as he felt the walls closing in around him? Because he certainly had to have some extensive knowledge of it when he became a flesh-golem....which I imagine is harder than it looked.

 

But we'll never know...or perhaps we will learn in DA:I....



#315
Shadow Fox

Shadow Fox
  • Members
  • 4 206 messages

Let´s see...

 

-Taken from and isolated from my parents.

 

-Forced to confront a demon with basic training at best to see if it possesses me.

 

-Not allowed to leave the tower unless the Templars say so.

 

-Can´t have romantic relationships on the open and any child will be taken from me.

 

-Watched 24/7.

 

-And some I can´t remember right now.

 

But hey, rejoice, because I have food on the table every day?

 

If she´s stupid enough to want to live in a prison I´ll be happy to put her in one.

As opposed to the City Elves and Orlesian peasants that live in filth,struggle for a good meal and can be raped or killed at a noble's whims? 

 

The mages have/had it good compared to that.

 

 


  • Han Shot First aime ceci

#316
wcholcombe

wcholcombe
  • Members
  • 2 738 messages

Eh...I certainly think its debatable. He wasn't technically a blood-mage until he was "forced" to use it...and we see this happening a lot in the lore. When mages are back in a corner and face life or death...they sometimes resort to drastic things like blood magic...or turning themselves into abominations...or what I'm assuming was a mixture of both for Orsino.

But he did read research about it and there were a lot of blood mages in his circle....so I certainly think its possible that Meridith was right, or at least that her suspicions were not founded on corrupted-red-lyrium nonsense (since she certainly had them well before coming into contact with the idol). Whose to say that Orsino didn't practice blood magic as he felt the walls closing in around him? Because he certainly had to have some extensive knowledge of it when he became a flesh-golem....which I imagine is harder than it looked.

But we'll never know...or perhaps we will learn in DA:I....


Um he wasn't backed into a corner If you supported the mages. His side won. He had been harboring blood mages and even supported Quentyn.

#317
CrazyMooNew

CrazyMooNew
  • Members
  • 119 messages

As opposed to the City Elves and Orlesian peasants that live in filth,struggle for a good meal and can be raped or killed at a noble's whims? 

 

The mages have/had it good compared to that.

 There is a big difference though....the elves can leave....



#318
leaguer of one

leaguer of one
  • Members
  • 9 995 messages

What part of "I will give [blood magic] to her" followed by him using a hideous forbidden technique that is obviously the aforementioned blood magic, does not add up to Orsino being a blood mage? Gosh, the denial.

 

 

Which required blood magic, which makes him a blood mage

The fact that was his first time using blood magic.



#319
Lumix19

Lumix19
  • Members
  • 1 842 messages

 There is a big difference though....the elves can leave....

Indeed. Mages cannot. Vivienne conveniently skips over this fact when she states that the mages are blind to the outside world. They live cut off lives not by choice but because they are quite literally imprisoned.



#320
leaguer of one

leaguer of one
  • Members
  • 9 995 messages

Um he wasn't backed into a corner If you supported the mages. His side won. He had been harboring blood mages and even supported Quentyn.

Ummm...If you support the mages, they still were not winning.



#321
CrazyMooNew

CrazyMooNew
  • Members
  • 119 messages

His side was backed into a corner...and they most certainly were not winning. He even gave a speech that the other mages had to flee for their lives and that they wouldn't be able to win that fight...that they were supposed to escape and warn the other circles about what happened here.

 

I imagine that the final battle there...before he turns into a...whatever he was...was the first wave of many and you clearly see that the templars were still in force when you left the tower and confronted Meridith outside...Orsino had zero reason to believe that the Champion would be able to defeat all of the templars in Kirkwall (and there is a reason the character isn't allowed to test that). The battle could not be won and Orsino knew it...



#322
AresKeith

AresKeith
  • Members
  • 34 128 messages

The fact that was his first time using blood magic.

 

Doesn't matter if it was his first time or not

 

 

@Streetmagic you should remove your post because I think that is breaking the NDA



#323
wcholcombe

wcholcombe
  • Members
  • 2 738 messages
It wasn't his 1st time using BM. As Last flight points out you have to be taught the actual spells of blood magic. That is different then just using blood for power.

Also he harbored or hid multiple blood mages.

#324
AshenEndymion

AshenEndymion
  • Members
  • 1 225 messages

The fact that was his first time using blood magic.

 

Sure.... And Jowan's escape was the first time he used blood magic too....  :whistle:



#325
CrazyMooNew

CrazyMooNew
  • Members
  • 119 messages

It wasn't his 1st time using BM. As Last flight points out you have to be taught the actual spells of blood magic. That is different then just using blood for power.

Also he harbored or hid multiple blood mages.

 But there is something important to remember.....she learned how to use blood magic over the course of a single night, and Orsino wouldn't have to have a teacher. As first enchanter he probably had access to manuscripts and research...but I could certainly see him experimenting with it once Meridith started to really lose it... after all...3 years under her tyranny is a long time, and Orsino could have certainly changed...