1751 réponses à ce sujet

[herkles]

 But there is something important to remember.....she learned how to use blood magic over the course of a single night, and Orsino wouldn't have to have a teacher. As first enchanter he probably had access to manuscripts and research...but I could certainly see him experimenting with it once Meridith started to really lose it... after all...3 years under her tyranny is a long time, and Orsino could have certainly changed...

 

From the letter to Quentin and what he said then, it seems clear that was the case. 

[lupin8314]

I don't agree with her views. Do remember she is known as "the ambition".

 

with the circle gone, her hopes of being the First Enchanter (and eventually Grand Enchanter) has gone down the drain. Of course she is angry about that. There are people who like these kind of 'false' powers and resents when it is taken away from them. I think eventually you can make her see that the system is repressive if there are no proper reforms.

[AshenEndymion]

I don't agree with her views. Do remember she is known as "the ambition".

 

with the circle gone, her hopes of being the First Enchanter (and eventually Grand Enchanter) has gone down the drain. Of course she is angry about that. There are people who like these kind of 'false' powers and resents when it is taken away from them. I think eventually you can make her see that the system is repressive if there are no proper reforms.

 

It's doubtful you can change Vivienne's views on the matter.  At least not to the extent you suggest.  There's no rivalry system in DAI, so if you tried, she'd probably leave.

[wcholcombe]

I don't agree with her views. Do remember she is known as "the ambition".

with the circle gone, her hopes of being the First Enchanter (and eventually Grand Enchanter) has gone down the drain. Of course she is angry about that. There are people who like these kind of 'false' powers and resents when it is taken away from them. I think eventually you can make her see that the system is repressive if there are no proper reforms.

You could argue same about Fiona. It was all a power play.

[TheTurtle]

I don't agree with her views. Do remember she is known as "the ambition".

 

with the circle gone, her hopes of being the First Enchanter (and eventually Grand Enchanter) has gone down the drain. Of course she is angry about that. There are people who like these kind of 'false' powers and resents when it is taken away from them. I think eventually you can make her see that the system is repressive if there are no proper reforms.

God I hope not I hate when people don't stick to the ideologies they've held and believed in for years because of the all powerful persuasive PC.

[AresKeith]

I don't agree with her views. Do remember she is known as "the ambition".

 

with the circle gone, her hopes of being the First Enchanter (and eventually Grand Enchanter) has gone down the drain. Of course she is angry about that. There are people who like these kind of 'false' powers and resents when it is taken away from them. I think eventually you can make her see that the system is repressive if there are no proper reforms.

 

Her being known as the ambition doesn't make her view less valid

[Almostfaceman]

so if you watched the recent stream you probably saw the convo with Vivienne where she essentially mocks the rebellious mages for being selfish childish narcissistic brats. All they cared about was the templars being mean to them and the events of asunder i'm assuming, ignoring the fact that they lived luxurious lives completely away from the suffering of the average thedosian, who probably viewed them less than charitably after Anders little stunt and several attempts on the life of the divine,  which i found to be both hilarious and accurate.  what did you guys think, was she right? or at least interesting

 

I'm willing to give her a chance and see how the story plays out, but I'd say right off the bat Vivienne rubs me the wrong way. Kinda snooty. I don't like people like that. I certainly don't agree with her opinion on the mage matter. I don't think the templars are all evil, I just think a better solution to mages should have been deliberated considering that mages are people, not manufactured weapons or a pest infestation. 

[Lumix19]

You could argue same about Fiona. It was all a power play.

Perhaps, although Fiona was already Grand Enchanter, what does she stand to gain from encouraging revolution? Furthermore she has a good reason to do so because of her background as a slave etc. I'd like to know Vivienne's background to see how her perspective was formed.

[Shadow Fox]

 There is a big difference though....the elves can leave....

Very rarely*just like mages heh* and their homes are usually burned down.

[lupin8314]

Her being known as the ambition doesn't make her view less valid

 

she talks as if all mages live in luxury and comfort.

 

sure, many of these mages are poor common folks who probably will live a day or two without food (without the Circle) but there are many nobles who are forced into a life of what I see as less luxury.

 

of course, she failed to emphasize on the unfair oppression (bullying) practiced by the few crazy Templars. Ok, there are also a few crazy blood mages too but she only mentioned the one and only Anders. She seem to forgot that Anders is by and large, a grey warden and not a circle mage. He has already left the circle for around 7 years when he blew up the Chantry. Just like the mage Warden is known as the Warden, Anders should be known as a Warden as well.
 

[leaguer of one]

It wasn't his 1st time using BM. As Last flight points out you have to be taught the actual spells of blood magic. That is different then just using blood for power.

Also he harbored or hid multiple blood mages.

Being taught is not the same as using. He had the knowledge for the blood mage he harbored. You point was stated by Meridith in da2, Orsino had an answer for it.

[leaguer of one]

God I hope not I hate when people don't stick to the ideologies they've held and believed in for years because of the all powerful persuasive PC.

Why is that bad? It's better to stay strong to a belief no matter what if it proven disastrous and /or wrong? It like saying moving a boat out of the way of an oncoming iceberg is weak because you've been sailing that course for years.

[Devtek]

A fancy prison is still a prison. Doesn't change the fact you have no control over your daily life, or that someone could kill you for acting weird or suck your brain out and make you a vegetable.

[AresKeith]

she talks as if all mages live in luxury and comfort.

 

sure, many of these mages are poor common folks who probably will live a day or two without food (without the Circle) but there are many nobles who are forced into a life of what I see as less luxury.

 

of course, she failed to emphasize on the unfair oppression (bullying) practiced by the few crazy Templars. Ok, there are also a few crazy blood mages too but she only mentioned the one and only Anders. She seem to forgot that Anders is by and large, a grey warden and not a circle mage. He has already left the circle for around 7 years when he blew up the Chantry. Just like the mage Warden is known as the Warden, Anders should be known as a Warden as well.

 

No, she doesn't just mention Anders and she even talks about the rebel templars.

 

Did you even read what she said?

[Lumix19]

Why is that bad? It's better to stay strong to a belief no matter what if it proven disastrous and /or wrong? It like saying moving a boat out of the way of an oncoming iceberg is weak because you've been sailing that course for years.

I think he/she is just saying it's somewhat unrealistic which I agree with. People are often too stubborn to change their beliefs and they always think they're in the right.

[Fredward]

I wasn't surprised by her stance or delivery considering she's been sold as pro-Circle from the start. What I'm really  curious about is her real motives behind wanting to support the Circle. While it existed she was a Person, soon to be First Enchanter of one or Orlais Circles she had a solid shot at one day becoming Grand Enchanter and now she works for the Inquisitor. Still a position of power I imagine but not as... tangible as the leader of just about every mage in the world. She strikes me as the political type, she's capable of eloquently defending any PoV as long as it supports her ambitions. Totally spitballing but I almost feel as if her real gripe with the mage rebellion is that she isn't the one leading it, like if something important has to happen that's gonna affect her life so profoundly SHE should be at the head of it.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I just wanted to say that I have no idea what any of you are talking about. 

 

God I hope not I hate when people don't stick to the ideologies they've held and believed in for years because of the all powerful persuasive PC.

 

If you've never had anyone profoundly influential in your life have an effect your beliefs, then I would assume that you're still quite young? There's nothing wrong with that. Personally, I've actually had quite an impact on what some of my closest friends believe about the world, and changed their minds about ideologies, and people have done the same for me (even people I wasn't close friends with.)

 

Stories in RPGs are being told on an economical timeline, so spending the years developing respect for someone you're close to can only, at best, be simulated across conversations that take up an hour or two, depending on how much content they can dedicate to the character. Within that economic timeframe, I believe BioWare has done a very good job of achieving that. I even think that was one of the stronger elements of DA 2. In DA:O, you could only profoundly influence a character you were very close to, that you had developed a relationship with that sustained the necessary elements to make influencing their ideologies plausible.

 

That's hardly "all powerful." An "all powerful persuasive PC" would snap their fingers and get what they want. Even dark side characters in KotOR/TOR have to put in more work than that.

[AshenEndymion]

Perhaps, although Fiona was already Grand Enchanter, what does she stand to gain from encouraging revolution? Furthermore she has a good reason to do so because of her background as a slave etc. I'd like to know Vivienne's background to see how her perspective was formed.

 

Fiona is also a Grey Warden.  Abolished Circles could mean a massive increase in recruits into the Wardens... And those new Wardens could make Fiona the First Warden in the near future...

 

We don't know what Fiona's end game is supposed to be with regards to the abolishment of the Circles... But I highly doubt it was just "freedom for mages"... If only because her plan, thus far, has been too stupid to be something coming from a person who managed to get themselves named Grand Enchanter...

[leaguer of one]

Sure.... And Jowan's escape was the first time he used blood magic too.... 

It wasn't. Your point?

[Girtuoklis]

Even more reasons to ruin viviennes party and dont recruit her to Inquisition

[HiroVoid]

It wasn't. Your point?

Magic requires practice.  If they're using blood magic (especially if they're good at it), they've been practicing it for a while.

[SolNebula]

Freedom at all cost, freedom above all. Through magic we gain power, through power we gain strenght. Strenght shall set us free. Oh wait!

[leaguer of one]

Magic requires practice.  If they're using blood magic (especially if they're good at it), they've been practicing it for a while.

It require practice, yes...Of the basics not the practice of the specific spell. If a mage understands the basics they can use any spell.