1751 réponses à ce sujet

[LaughingWolf]

It is what is likely to happen. I cannot say for sure what would happen if the mages were freed, but I can say what would be the most likely scenario. The common folk do have a strong fear of magic and mages (not without reason) and without some sort of system to keep things in check, it is highly likely that extremist organizations would rise up and decide that all mages need to be killed (kind of like the Red Templars...)

 

You're arguing for what's morally right. Fear rarely leads to rational, moral actions. Many mundanes fear mages. We've been told this in every Dragon Age game we've played. This fear went from "I don't like that mage, he could be up to something" to "Oh gods please don't blow me up!" following Anders' little stunt.

 

Frightened people are well known to act impulsively, and rarely in support of the object of their fears. Viviene understands this, which is why she is rather upset that the vote to split from the Chantry even happened. Because it only increased that fear, and thus made life in Thedas for mages more dangerous.

 

Fair? Not at all. But it is reality. A reality Viviene understands all too well.

 

Fair enough view point that I can understand but I never said all mages should be free. I just said that we don't know what would happen if they were free.

You can't assume that everything would go horribly wrong and just use that as a reason to persecute an entire race. I think that the system of the Circles and Templars is the right way to go about the mage situation but it needs to be seriously reformed; it can't be the same way as it was - essentially a prison. 

[Osena109]

Seems to me tower mages are nothing more then  Dathrasi that set in there towers not  knowing how good they had it now  lets watch them suffer no more wine and meet or walls to safeguard them am coming for them

[herkles]

Seems to me tower mages are nothing more then  Dathrasi

 

Could you explain what you mean by this? 

[Osena109]

Could you explain what you mean by this? 

post above  but there nothing more then fatted live stock  used for war nothing more nothing less  there kept on   vary short  leash most of them have limited social Graces and am not talking about the enchanters am talking about the ones that should have been made traquil those are the mindless beast that should be put down the made trucks with demons am sure some of them could be saved but the vast majority should be put down

[herkles]

post above  but there nothing more then fatted live stock  used for war nothing more nothing less 

 

Not sure I would go that far, but I will say that the city elves, castless dwarves, human peasents, and/or qunari mages who left the qun probaly are sick and tired about how Oprressed the mages, when the lives are likely more crappy. 

 

Not sure why more don't take any of their sides, but I do know that while my dalish mage inquisitor won't care at all for the mage-templar war. The humans mistreating elves? oh, you can bet your ass that will be her cause.

[Osena109]

Not sure I would go that far, but I will say that the city elves, castless dwarves, human peasents, and/or qunari mages who left the qun probaly are sick and tired about how Oprressed the mages, when the lives are likely more crappy. 

 

Not sure why more don't take any of their sides, but I do know that while my dalish mage inquisitor won't care at all for the mage-templar war. The humans mistreating elves? oh, you can bet your ass that will be her cause.

My take on the whole Elf thing is 99% of dalish elf story is a whale of a tale elves  were not Natural immortals  more along the lines of what zathrian did  binding there  self's to tree spirtes  its wonderful  story to tell  bunch of uneducated city elves to get more in to there clan to  strengthen the gene pool  

[Keroko]

 

Fair enough view point that I can understand but I never said all mages should be free. I just said that we don't know what would happen if they were free.

You can't assume that everything would go horribly wrong and just use that as a reason to persecute an entire race. I think that the system of the Circles and Templars is the right way to go about the mage situation but it needs to be seriously reformed; it can't be the same way as it was - essentially a prison. 

 

But did Viviene say that the Circle system as it was was fine and needed no change? No, she just said that the actions of the mages voting for separation from the Chantry were short-sighted and didn't think about what the rest of Thedas would think or do of it.

 

Viviene strikes me more as an ambitious Wynne. While she wants more freedom in the Circle (because ambition) she knows that such change has to come gradually, as forcing the issue could -and did- have dire consequences.

[Ryriena]

Sometimes their needs to violent change to get anything done, in fact, many things through out history like the American Civil war for an example led to the freeing slaves by a Presidential Proclamation in the end and it jumped started many rights for Black Americans though their are some places in the south where things aren't that great for black Americans like in sundown towns.

[sylvanaerie]

Sometimes their needs to violent change to get anything done, in fact, many things through out history like the American Civil war for an example led to the freeing slaves by a Presidential Proclamation in the end and it jumped started many rights for Black Americans though their are some places in the south where things aren't that great for black Americans like in sundown towns.

That actually took over a century to start getting done with the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s.  I don't think Thedas can stand a mage/templar war lasting a century.  The American Revolution itself was over a decade long.  

 

Something needed to be done, but I think Anders jumped the shark with it, considering Justinia was more mage-friendly than he realized, peaceful reforms might have happened in his own time.

 

Now because of his actions and the actions at the peace conference our protagonist attends, that won't be possible.  Considering I heard the Elder One has been planning this for some time, I have to wonder, how much of Anders' actions, and those of Justinia were being influenced by this being?

[hellbiter88]

That actually took over a century to start getting done with the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s.  I don't think Thedas can stand a mage/templar war lasting a century.  The American Revolution itself was over a decade long.  

 

Something needed to be done, but I think Anders jumped the shark with it, considering Justinia was more mage-friendly than he realized, peaceful reforms might have happened in his own time.

 

Now because of his actions and the actions at the peace conference our protagonist attends, that won't be possible.  Considering I heard the Elder One has been planning this for some time, I have to wonder, how much of Anders' actions, and those of Justinia were being influenced by this being?

 

i never got why he blew her up. why not blow up meridith she was the one directly oppressing the mages?

[Ryriena]

That actually took over a century to start getting done with the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s.  I don't think Thedas can stand a mage/templar war lasting a century.  The American Revolution itself was over a decade long.  

 

Something needed to be done, but I think Anders jumped the shark with it, considering Justinia was more mage-friendly than he realized, peaceful reforms might have happened in his own time.

 

Now because of his actions and the actions at the peace conference our protagonist attends, that won't be possible.  Considering I heard the Elder One has been planning this for some time, I have to wonder, how much of Anders' actions, and those of Justinia were being influenced by this being?

 

I too wonder if his some of his actions along with Justice were being infulenced by the elder one that is a intresting theroy.    However, the civil war jumped started events in America for the change too start things too happen. Nelson Mandala also took more than ten years and even had gotten aressted for fighting for rights in apartihd South Africa and became the president of a state that was able too bring down an aparthid state, as well. So even peacefull means can take time to fourm..

Modifié par Ryriena, 25 octobre 2014 - 11:40 .

[Ryriena]

i never got why he blew her up. why not blow up meridith she was the one directly oppressing the mages?

Yes in a sense however the Chantry was the cause of the hate that mages have to suffer. So cause and effect somewhat but she does have a point about his actions could have been infullenced by The Elder One

[Apostate.]

So what you guys are saying is Anders was....... Indoctrinated?

[Ryriena]

So what you guys are saying is Anders was....... Indoctrinated?

 

I am not really sure indoctrinated is the right word, since the Elders Ones could change into human fourm according too the legends, so he possiblly was able to met him and got the idea too hit the chantry instead of Meredith.

[AresKeith]

So what you guys are saying is Anders was....... Indoctrinated?

 

"He's a puppet, tangled in.... strings"

 

[Apostate.]

I am not really sure indoctrinated is the right word, since the Elders Ones could change into human fourm according too the legends, so he possiblly was able to met him and got the idea too hit the chantry instead of Meredith.

Wait what now?

So Anders in DA2 Act3 isn't Anders?

Are you so sure he wasn't..... indoctrinated?

[Ryriena]

Wait what now?

So Anders in DA2 Act3 isn't Anders?

Are you so sure he wasn't..... indoctrinated?

Now, your  just twisting my words to make your point  I am saying that its possible that he met the Elder Ones human fourm and got the idea from him.

[Apostate.]

Now, your  just twisting my words to make your point  I am saying that its possible that he met the Elder Ones human fourm and got the idea from him.

You're completely right. I'm biased here...I just want someone to be indoctrinated.

[Chari]

Vivienne is wise, beautiful and powerful. No surprise she is not a LI: we just aren't good enough for her

[Keroko]

Sometimes their needs to violent change to get anything done, in fact, many things through out history like the American Civil war for an example led to the freeing slaves by a Presidential Proclamation in the end and it jumped started many rights for Black Americans though their are some places in the south where things aren't that great for black Americans like in sundown towns.

 

A sentiment that works when you have at least something rivalling an equal force to fight with and a sentiment that the people of the country you're fighting in can agree with.

 

The mages have neither, as Viviene points out.

[herkles]

Some interesting quotes from Cameron Lee in a recent interview by total xbox. Here is what Lee says about Mage-templar conflict

 

You can ally with either the Mages or the Templars, right?

 

That's right, yeah. It's one of the big branching decisions you make very early on in the game's story, and there are exclusive plotlines on either side of that decision, which is really cool - you can spend hours on each of these different sorts of plots, depending on which one you pick. But even cooler than that, not only does it have a rippling impact on the story, but you'll actually see the result of not picking the other one within the world.

 

The differences in enemy factions and perhaps the creatures you encounter in the world will change based on your decision. So there are two sides to the coin, which is neat because then you start thinking about different playthroughs, different styles and the pros and cons of taking those different decisions. And I think for many games in the past, you'd think: "What is the pro of taking this decision?" Whereas now we're actually saying: "Here's the pro... and also here are the consequences of that."

 

[duckley]

One thing that did strike me after reading Asunder, was that because of their (forced)  isolation, the average Mage may not be in the best position to make informed decisions.

 

I would think that many would need to rely on the experiences of other Mages, who have been able to travel and to participate in everyday life in Thedas. Mages like Wynne, Fiona, and dare I say, Anders.

 

Is it fair to say that many Mages are making critical life changing decisions based on indirect, potentially biased information?  As much as I find Wynne annoying as a character, I did find it interesting that her experience and advise was pretty much dismissed  by those with little to no real world experiences.

[Eudaemonium]

 

Some interesting quotes from Cameron Lee in a recent interview by total xbox. Here is what Lee says about Mage-templar conflict

 

 

I found this interesting, because I kept hearing that the Mage-Templar conflict would be resolved early on, but this makes it sound more that you just side with one early on and it's a significant on-going plot line within the game, which is different from swopping in and solving all the problems. Also makes it very likely we won't get some sort of 'third option'.

[sylvanaerie]

 

Some interesting quotes from Cameron Lee in a recent interview by total xbox. Here is what Lee says about Mage-templar conflict

 

Wow so we actually can pick who we want to support and it will have an impact on the way our Inquisitor's story plays out.  I was hoping this would be the case.  My first run will be Dalish mage who will lean toward supporting the mages.  My second might be a templar Andrastian warrior Noblewoman...we will see...

[Medhia_Nox]

@Eudaemonium:  I'm holding out hope for that "third" option... the bandit camp in the Storm Coast has an alternate path that gets them to join and they're a pointless little tiny group.

 

My HOPE is that the "Co-operating" option is available - but is a very involved quest chain that will deprive you of the advantage of the Mages AND Templars for a good chunk of time (the advantage would be just choosing one of them right away) but then gives you both groups once you finish it.

That seemed to be their mission statement with the bandit camp - there's an easy route for quick completion - and a harder route that gives you a better reward.