1751 réponses à ce sujet

[herkles]

@Eudaemonium:  I'm holding out hope for that "third" option... the bandit camp in the Storm Coast has an alternate path that gets them to join and they're a pointless little tiny group.

 

My HOPE is that the "Co-operating" option is available - but is a very involved quest chain that will deprive you of the advantage of the Mages AND Templars for a good chunk of time (the advantage would be just choosing one of them right away) but then gives you both groups once you finish it.

That seemed to be their mission statement with the bandit camp - there's an easy route for quick completion - and a harder route that gives you a better reward.

 

I hope that is the case. 

[efd731]

i will be very dissapointed if theres no third option. obviously the stakes have been ramped up, but the average templar has no representation in the various books/games so we have no idea what their disposition is. likewise, there's a massive chunk of the mage population that wanted to stay in the circles and another chunk that wanted reform. hard to believe that given the chance to change the circle's layout the mages and templars wouldn't come back to the table. the templars obviously would want the mages back in the circles for supervision, and the mages might've learned that despite circle restrictions the outside world is far more hostile to them and that the templars werent just bull*shitting them when they said they protected mages from people and vice versa.

[herkles]

i will be very dissapointed if theres no third option. obviously the stakes have been ramped up, but the average templar has no representation in the various books/games so we have no idea what their disposition is. likewise, there's a massive chunk of the mage population that wanted to stay in the circles and another chunk that wanted reform. hard to believe that given the chance to change the circle's layout the mages and templars wouldn't come back to the table. the templars obviously would want the mages back in the circles for supervision, and the mages might've learned that despite circle restrictions the outside world is far more hostile to them and that the templars werent just bull*shitting them when they said they protected mages from people and vice versa.

 

I think this is partially why the mages tend to have more notable supporters. We have played a mage, interacted with mages and had them in our party. But we haven't had the same for the templars. We haven't got to know the templars as people for all of them. We only got to see just a few.  I am hoping that we can see more of the man/woman under the helmet.

 

 

Also for the mages, one of the cool things in Origins were all the fraternities. I want to see them in Inquistion, especially the ones who are only after money I can see a few of them join the revolutionaries while still selling to the templars  

[efd731]

but i imagine that the option to cause a truce between the two factions would require Anders being alive, to either act as a peace offering to the templars or to show his regret to the mage faction and convince them that a new circle was a good option. 

which will be hard for me, because i murderkifed him so damn often.

[The Baconer]

but i imagine that the option to cause a truce between the two factions would require Anders being alive, to either act as a peace offering to the templars or to show his regret to the mage faction and convince them that a new circle was a good option. 

which will be hard for me, because i murderkifed him so damn often.

 

I think that would be greatly overestimating the value of Anders' opinion to the mages in general.

[efd731]

I think that would be greatly overestimating the value of Anders' opinion to the mages in general.

well, he was the one responsible for kicking this whole thing off, hearing him repent and talk about all the suffering and misery it caused and saying that theres a better way would make for a pretty interesting moment. or he could continue to be a dipshit and say that now that the mages have freedom they should never give it up no matter what, in which case, more murderknife

[The Baconer]

well, he was the one responsible for kicking this whole thing off, hearing him repent and talk about all the suffering and misery it caused and saying that theres a better way would make for a pretty interesting moment. or he could continue to be a dipshit and say that now that the mages have freedom they should never give it up no matter what, in which case, more murderknife

 

I still think that would be overestimating the significance of his existence to both factions.

 

Limiting the access of the third (and correct) option in this war based on whether or not Anders is alive would be more than scummy.

[efd731]

I still think that would be overestimating the significance of his existence to both factions.

 

Limiting the access of the third (and correct) option in this war based on whether or not Anders is alive would be more than scummy.

oh i didn't mean that anders being alive should be the only factor for that choice being available, just that it should be a factor. i believe it should be a significant one but thats just me.

[The Elder King]

I think it's really unlikely We can make a Compromise between mages and templars in DAI.

[herkles]

I still think that would be overestimating the significance of his existence to both factions.

 

Limiting the access of the third (and correct) option in this war based on whether or not Anders is alive would be more than scummy.

 

not to mention, Anders by this point would be Justice/Anders. For he and Justice are now one.  Even if he was alive, he wouldn't stop his crusade for justice, because he can't. 

 

Side note: anders is not his real name but the nickname to a person from Anderfels.

 

Which makes me so want to see this scene just for sure sillyness to the player

 

Templar Knight-Captain of a region: go and fetch Anders, now! 

*Anders then enters and it turns out to be a templar lady a devoted pro-templar lady* 

 

doubt it but that is just me being silly. 

[The Baconer]

I think it's really unlikely We can make a Compromise between mages and templars in DAI.

 

It seems that way. It's a mistake, of course, but I guess we'll have to see how it can play out ingame.

[The Elder King]

It seems that way. It's a mistake, of course, but I guess we'll have to see how it can play out ingame.

While I'd like to have The option, I think that the choice is made early in the game, when we don't have the power or the influence to force a Compromise between them. I think in this case the lack of a third option makes sense.

[AshenEndymion]

The problem is that "the third option" in the mage/templar war would still result in the mages going back to the Circles, and still having restrictions placed on them...  There is no offer that benefits the mages significantly, or changes the Circle system, that the Templars would ever accept in a "peaceful" negotiation.

 

As such, if there is a third option to resolve the conflict, but it would probably be looked at by players as two pro-templar options and one pro-mage option, rather than three different choices...

[The Baconer]

The problem is that "the third option" in the mage/templar war would still result in the mages going back to the Circles, and still having restrictions placed on them...  There is no offer that benefits the mages significantly, or changes the Circle system, that the Templars would ever accept in a "peaceful" negotiation.

 

As such, if there is a third option to resolve the conflict, but it would probably be looked at by players as two pro-templar options and one pro-mage option, rather than three different choices...

 

Overhauling the Circle system is the only way to make a permanent change for the better. What the Templars think is irrelevant because they don't have the qualifications or authority to demand anything, and everyone realizes that.

[AshenEndymion]

Overhauling the Circle system is the only way to make a permanent change for the better. What the Templars think is irrelevant because they don't have the qualifications or authority to demand anything, and everyone realizes that.

 

What the Templars think is relevant if you want them to agree to an end to the war without having to wipe them out in some form...  If you're going to have a third option, you need to care about what the Templars think.  You need to care what the mages think as well, but one is far more likely to get the mages to peacefully agree to return to the status quo than getting the Templars to peacefully agree to a Circle upheaval.

 

I don't think there will be a third option to the mage/templar conflict... But, as I said, if there is one, it's going to be viewed as a pro-templar choice, rather than a third option...

[The Baconer]

What the Templars think is relevant if you want them to agree to an end to the war without having to wipe them out in some form... 

 

If they need to be brutalized until they are willing to give reason a chance, that can be arranged. The same would go for the mages, of course.

 

You need to care what the mages think as well, but one is far more likely to get the mages to peacefully agree to return to the status quo than getting the Templars to peacefully agree to a Circle upheaval.

 

Based off of what? They had already conceded to a truce before the game begins. That means both sides were, at some point, willing to try and co-operate to make things better.

[AshenEndymion]

Based off of what? They had already conceded to a truce before the game begins. That means both sides were, at some point, willing to try and co-operate to make things better.

 
The reasonable people conceded to a truce.  And they're all dead.  Although, until the game comes out, I think it's debatable as to how many Templars actually attended, rather than just people associated with the Chantry.  Especially considering the split from the Divine on the topic.
 
Either way, If you're going to get a third option at this point, it's going to be with the hardliner Templars and the absolute freedom mages involved...

[Vandicus]

If they need to be brutalized until they are willing to give reason a chance, that can be arranged. The same would go for the mages, of course.

 

 

Based off of what? They had already conceded to a truce before the game begins. That means both sides were, at some point, willing to try and co-operate to make things better.

That was before their ambassadors were blown up by what they will probably assume is the other side.

 

We'll probably need to provide evidence to both sides that they were being manipulated all along so we can have a kumbaya moment with mages and templars.

[The Baconer]

The reasonable people conceded to a truce.  And they're all dead. 

 

We don't know that, especially considering how many from both sides simply deserted the war.

 

 

Although, until the game comes out, I think it's debatable as to how many Templars actually attended, rather than just people associated with the Chantry.  Especially considering the split from the Divine on the topic.

 

See the army of Templars marching toward the Temple of Sacred Ashes on the working title screen we've seen in streams. Making a truce without the Templars would have been of limited use anyway, as the Chantry wouldn't have the muscle to enforce any of it.

[Medhia_Nox]

I think it's actually conceivable that the major players didn't even show up yet.

 

When gatherings like this are hosted in the real world - the lackeys tend to arrive before the dignitaries.

The Divine could easily be an exception to that rule as she is the arbiter and would likely have been there before anyone.

[Laughing_Man]

Ah, Vivienne.

To me, she represent those who are relatively lucky and blessed in life, and therefore are against anything that might jeopardize their comfy lifestyle - which is quite understandable, if not a very sympathetic position to be in.

 

But is she wrong? Well, not comletely.

 

On one side, it seems that the mage rebelion is too disorganized, self-destructive, and causes too much collateral damage to be anything but doomed, at least unless something drastic is going to happen. (like support from the "Herald of Andraste" for example)

 

But on the other side (her smug self assurance aside) her version of the events is just the narrative from a certain point of view.

She ignores the fact that the unrest didn't start with a single event, but was something the developed over who knows how long.

She ignores the fact that while Anders and his like are very conveniently in a position for those who want the blame Mages as a whole or at least the rebel-Mages, they have numerous counterparts in the chantry that are no less ruthless bloodthirthty or insane.

She also ignores the fact that in some cases, like in Kirkwall, the rebelion started only as a reaction to a collective death-sentence that hovered above every remaining mage there, (at least those who managed to evade the so called "Tranquil Solution") and as an absolute last resort.

 

So yeah, no matter what you say, there are two sides to this coin, and no amount of wit on Vivienne's part will hide the fact that she represents only one of them.

[Keroko]

Ah, Vivienne.

To me, she represent those who are relatively lucky and blessed in life, and therefore are against anything that might jeopardize their comfy lifestyle - which is quite understandable, if not a very sympathetic position to be in.

Wow wow wow, hold on. Source? I hear this argument levelled against Viviene all the time, but where exactly is it said she was born on a bed of roses and has no idea what mages go through?

She's a mage. She damn well knows what mages go through. The main difference between her and other mages is that she also knows that mages don't exist on the world alone, and that there is a "rest of the world" that fears them at best, and is out for their blood at worst.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Keroko:  People hate anyone who's achieved success the hard way - so she "must" have had it handed to her. 

 

And who cares if it was handed to her - doesn't make the rebel's choices any more intelligent.  

 

The mages were manipulated into picking the worst time possible for a rebellion... end of story.

[Xilizhra]

@Keroko:  People hate anyone who's achieved success the hard way - so she "must" have had it handed to her. 

 

And who cares if it was handed to her - doesn't make the rebel's choices any more intelligent.  

 

The mages were manipulated into picking the worst time possible for a rebellion... end of story.

Strategically, perhaps. But I'll still support them all the way, because I believe it's morally wrong to ask people to endure oppression.

[Nohvarr]

Ah, Vivienne.

To me, she represent those who are relatively lucky and blessed in life, and therefore are against anything that might jeopardize their comfy lifestyle - which is quite understandable, if not a very sympathetic position to be in.

 

Apparently I need to say the following again.

You know what....I think people claiming Vivie had it better than other mages are wrong. We've seen no proof that she's of noble blood or been granted any privileges beyond what any other mage had access to. What we DO know is that she was in line to be first enchanter and it takes no small amount of skill to earn that position. So, darlings, the more likely truth is that she clawed her way to the top in a system designed to keep mages down.