1751 réponses à ce sujet

[natalscar]

This B gonna get on my last nerve like sullen Cullen, if what I've read is an accurate impression, it seems.

[frankf43]

@Tzeentchian Apostrophe:  I'm still trying to figure out how the mages forced her into trying to help save the world.

 

Unless you're saying the mages opened the Breach - thereby forcing her to join the Inquisition.

 

I feel that she thinks that the mages were solely responsible for breaking the circle thereby meaning that the Chantry was not able to deal with the threat of the breach personally.

[Laughing_Man]

I have my doubts the Chantry would go for it. The Chantry loves having scapegoats, and mages make such easy ones since they can't change what they are.

 

Good thing we have a fancy title, let's see if we can put to work.

 

Well of course they wouldn't go for it.

The Chantry is an Old power, and like any old and powerful institution, it resists change.

That's why we have the "Herald of Andraste", to drag everyone kicking and screaming back to the shores of sanity.

[efd731]

I feel that she thinks that the mages were solely responsible for breaking the circle thereby meaning that the Chantry was not able to deal with the threat of the breach personally.

you can feel like that all you want but the only thing we know for sure is that Vivienne thinks the mages were ignorant of the outside world and how it perceived them (undeniably true) and have no endgame for their rebellion(also true).

[Laughing_Man]

@Tzeentchian Apostrophe:  I'm still trying to figure out how the mages forced her into trying to help save the world.

 

Unless you're saying the mages opened the Breach - thereby forcing her to join the Inquisition.

 

Would you like to bet against the fact that there are cardboard-villain-blood-mages on the side of "chaos"?...

I bet you can also find some connections to extreme elements in the rebel mages...

 

Besides, we don't know why she joined the inquisition. It may well have been more because of her will to reinforce the old circle system.

[Keroko]

"Safe inside their towers they though only of the Templars and their own resentment."

 

Most mages I have seen were not safe in their towers. So far I've seen two towers and they were both under threat of Annulment. 

Safe from the population of Thedas. Which doesn't like mages. At all.

 

If the templars hadn't been stupid and gone rogue first, it's very likely that the entire population of Thedas would have called for an Exalted March on the mages when they declared to split of from the Chantry.

 

Ironic that Lambert's zeal and corruption might have actually saved the lives of more lives than his betrayal.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Reaver102:  That's very possible and at LEAST it's based off her bio.  We'll have to wait and find out - it still doesn't mean she had a pampered life and is just sour grapes that the mages ruined her fun.  She doesn't seem to be inconvenienced by the rebellion in the least. 

 

My mage will be a touch cranky with her because he couldn't avoid being conscripted in the mage's idiocy and had to have a giant ion beam dropped on him to escape the fool rebels.

 

@frankf43:  But maybe we should wait to find out what she really thinks and why? 

[Beerfish]

"Safe inside their towers they though only of the Templars and their own resentment."

 

Most mages I have seen were not safe in their towers. So far I've seen two towers and they were both under threat of Annulment. 

100% due to mages misbehavior.

[sylvanaerie]

Safe from the population of Thedas. Which doesn't like mages. At all.

 

If the templars hadn't been stupid and gone rogue first, it's very likely that the entire population of Thedas would have called for an Exalted March on the mages when they declared to split of from the Chantry.

 

Ironic that Lambert's zeal and corruption might have actually saved the lives of more lives than his betrayal.

 

Hey, that works for me.  Hopefully I can resolve the situation on my Inquisitor with at least some measure of satisfaction to all parties involved.  Considering emotions have ripple effects in the Fade with dreamers and such, I would imagine the demons in there are having a field day.

[Laughing_Man]

100% due to mages misbehavior.

 

The problem his not a bunch of maniacs getting what's coming to them.

The problem is killing all the rest, including children.

[frankf43]

The problem his not a bunch of maniacs getting what's coming to them.

The problem is killing all the rest, including children.

This.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Tzeentchian Apostrophe:  You think Uldred would have "thought about the children"? 

 

And Kirkwall is an anomaly - they've said this many times.

 

Do you really think this mage rebellion is thinking about children anywhere?  The children getting bombed by random fireballs?  Shot by random arrows?  The mage children being consumed by demons because they're so full of fear and fatigue during a time when demons are literally raining from the sky? 

Yeah - not a single group is "thinking about the children" in the current scenario.

And don't even get me started on anyone who did the Dark Ritual saying something like this.

[AshenEndymion]

The problem his not a bunch of maniacs getting what's coming to them.
The problem is killing all the rest, including children.

 
And yet, the Templars only do this once:  Kirkwall.  It's the Warden who annuls the Circle in Ferelden(if you side the Templars with Irving alive, Greagior doesn't cull the Circle like Meredith does).
 
Besides, if the insane mages who started the mess "thought of the children", the Circles wouldn't have been annulled in the first place.

[frankf43]

 
And yet, the Templars only do this once:  Kirkwall.

 

It's the Warden who annuls the Circle in Ferelden(if you side the Templars with Irving alive, Greagior doesn't cull the Circle like Meredith does).
 
Besides, if the insane mages who started the mess "thought of the children", the Circles wouldn't have been annulled in the first place.

 

 Kirkwall was not the only circle annulled in the recent past.

 

The templars locked the children in with demons even though Wynne had a barrier separating them from the rest of the circle for the time being.

 

Insane people do not think about hurting children. The problem is that the Templars are out of control as well. Let's not forget they also broke away from the Chantry.

 

Edit

 

and quite a few of them are addicted to controlled substances.

[Medhia_Nox]

@frankf43:  Man, you must hate Uldred and his mages for endangering all those children in the first place...

 

And you must really hate Isolde for endangering her child by not sending him to a Circle.

[wcholcombe]

 Kirkwall was not the only circle annulled in the recent past.

 

The templars locked the children in with demons even though Wynne had a barrier separating them from the rest of the circle for the time being.

 

Insane people do not think about hurting children. The problem is that the Templars are out of control as well. Let's not forget they also broke away from the Chantry.

A) If you are referring to Dairsmund Circle, I will remind you that the ROA was declared until the mages started attacking the templars as they were trying to remove the apostates/seers from the circle in accordance with the rules.

 

The templars sealed the entire tower.  It wasn't a thought of "oh wynne has everyone safe, lets lock the children in there anyway."  They didn't know wynne had sealed the tower off, they also didn't know who had been possessed and who hadn't, their 1st duty was to contain the incident.  Being as David Gaider has said there is no way for them to determine who has been possessed and who hasn't, it was awfully open minded of Gregoirre to spair the mages based soley off of Irvings word.

 

C) That is correct, the templars have an issue with hardliners being in power currently. Hopefully this can be rectified with both groups as both suffer from it.  Lambert = Fiona and Adrian = Meredith.

[frankf43]

@frankf43:  Man, you must hate Uldred and his mages for endangering all those children in the first place...

 

And you must really hate Isolde for endangering her child by not sending him to a Circle.

 

Yep evil characters are evil characters no matter which side of the divide they are on.

 

Nah why would she want he son anywhere near those Templar drug addicts? I have no problem with a mother trying to protect her child no matter how badly it ended out.

[Heimdall]

That's all very nice in theory, but if you are a mage, and all you have to look for is the unlikely mercy of the likes of Lambert and Meredith or the tranquil solution, a rebelion as doomed as it might be suddenly seems like a good idea.

Even Meredith rejected the Tranquil Solution, so that's neither here nor there. Just because times are hard doesn't mean the most immediate and destructive path is the best one and most likely for success. How many have died and will die that might not have if the Mages had pursued a more peaceful road to change? What guarantee was there that anything good will come of it?

[earl of the north]

It is noticeable that the pro-magers seem to be ignoring Vivienne's actual words and the point she was making in favour of the same tired old discussion of how the poor abused mages aren't to blame for anything and everything is the Chantry/Templars fault.

 

We seen two Circle Towers in Dragon Age games, one was almost destroyed by a high ranking Mage and the other was the acknowledged worst Circle Tower in Thedas and was destroyed by the actions of a crazy Templar, a possessed terrorist Mage and a blood Mage. If we use these as proof of how terrible all the Circles are then we must equally assume all Dalish Keepers should be killed on sight since almost every Dalish Mage we meet does amazing dangerous, stupid things or is just attacking any non Dalish they meet.

 

As I wrote earlier in the thread Circle Mages even in the worst Circles were still better off then several other groups (Qunari Mages, Tevinter slaves, city elves and casteless Dwarves), did they have the right to rebel? Of course they did but in doing so they dragged the majority of Circle Mages into a war they were unprepared for and seem to have no idea what their end game was......its hard to win a war when you don't have a clear idea of what that victory actually means.

 

Vivienne expresses a contempt for political leaders who dragged her people into a war they couldn't win, of course she's angry that her influence  building  with Celene has been thrown away.

[frankf43]

Even Meredith rejected the Tranquil Solution, so that's neither here nor there. Just because times are hard doesn't mean the most immediate and destructive path is the best one and most likely for success. How many have died and will die that might not have if the Mages had pursued a more peaceful road to change? What guarantee was there that anything good will come of it?

 

Better to live a day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.

[Keroko]

Better to live a day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.

 

And mages who want to be sheep might not like you deciding that for them.

 

Remember when we were talking about children?

 

What do you think is happening to young children who start showing magic ability right now?

[Heimdall]

Better to live a day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.

Even if it only guarantees further fear and oppression for all Mages born in the future? That's the sort of shortsighted attitude Viviane is criticizing.

[Beerfish]

Better to live a day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.

I will disagree with that as would a vast majority of people.  Sounds like something Anders would spout on behalf of ALL mages.

[frankf43]

And mages who want to be sheep might not like you deciding that for them.

 

Remember when we were talking about children?

 

What do you think is happening to young children who start showing magic ability right now?

The children were no more safe in the Circle than they are anywhere else. You are locking sane rational people with other who are either under the control of a demon or controlled substances. If the person who is under the control of a demon shows the the children are all killed anyway.

[wcholcombe]

They were a heck of a lot safer then they were getting killed in their villages when their magic power manifested.

Seriously in Asunder a town was ready to kill Wynne, Rhys, and Adriane just because they were mages, people do not grasp the world that Thedas is and the VERY real reason that templars are supposed to be protecting the world from mages and mages from the world.