1751 réponses à ce sujet

[efd731]

Back in your gilded cage is not acceptable. Better a hovel and freedom than that

i always chuckle at this sort of rhetoric. Freedom at all costs!!! Says someone in a 'first world' nation with internet. Anything is better than a gilded cage!! Says someone who would rush into said cage if it meant they got to charge their phone

I'm not saying I'm different/better cause I'm not, I'm just saying watching keyboard warriors scream "freedom or death" is a rather amusing past time.

Also, unless the mages find a place where the Templars cannot follow, there won't be a hovel, there won't be anything at all. Due to their reactionary actions, they have no endgame for their rebellion. No way to look after themselves, no way to replenish their numbers, even if they somehow do survive the templars attacks and the hatred of the general populace.

[Medhia_Nox]

@efd731:  I wonder if the mages even thought to bring some food on this trip to Andoral's Reach... or did they expect it to be waiting for them on tables like it's always been in their guilded cages?

 

And if so... I wonder who among them knows how to cook - since I wager the Tranquil did most of the cooking... and it would be the absolute HEIGHT of hypocrisy to make the Tranquil serve them still. 

 

I wonder who does their laundry?  Man - the Tempars are going to be detecting them by stench.  Enjoy lice, flees and bedbugs mages... you didn't know them before.

 

Funny thing is... the rebel supporters don't even know all the skills these mages would need and don't have.

[efd731]

@efd731: I wonder if the mages even thought to bring some food on this trip to Andoral's Reach... or did they expect it to be waiting for them on tables like it's always been in their guilded cages?

And if so... I wonder who among them knows how to cook - since I wager the Tranquil did most of the cooking... and it would be the absolute HEIGHT of hypocrisy to make the Tranquil serve them still.

I wonder who does their laundry? Man - the Tempars are going to be detecting them by stench.

Funny thing is... the rebel supporters don't even know all the skills these mages would need and don't have.

i actually hope that the game touches more on the tranquil, especially if they're still on the mages side. That'd make for all kinds of interesting discussion.

[Mornmagor]

Let's just not forget that, although Vivienne is right about this being the worst possible time for rebellion of the Mages, that the Circle system is something that needs change, and it's something that needed to change a long time ago, but people were too busy playing police to actually do something.

 

It didn't change, because as with everything else, in order for it to change, both parties had to agree. It took a rebellion for the Chantry leaders to accept negotiations, and in the past, when people asked for more freedom, it did not end nicely.

 

There's no way to sugar coat this, this rebellion will do more harm than good, but there is blame on both sides because, the Mages might indeed be selfish - and naturally so, everyone would want their freedom in their place, and would bypass logic because of strong feelings from oppression-, but the other side would not just agree for more freedom to exist, or even worse, for the Chantry to be separated from the Circles.

 

I do think, this was inevitable, when you opress people for whatever reason, (self) justified or not, it is going to bite you at some point.

 

This could have been averted by people standing in a nice room to negotiate. Did we need 1000 years and a rebellion at this point for it to happen?

 

I can't help however, but wonder why did it happen now? It was SO damn convenient to have both parties to negotiate at the same spot. And suddenly, their Heads are all dead. Coincidence? I think not.

 

Someone took advantage of it. Why wait for a rebellion though, instead of just blowing them up at a simple negotiation, before a rebellion? I guess, because if a rebellion started, many would die from both sides, and their ranks would be decimated. Less forces to worry about?

 

Maybe, a group was influencing both Mages and Chantry, to make things lead to this. Could this have something to do with the people that caused this?

 

I don't know, but it's my conspiracy theory /tinfoil hat on.

[efd731]

Morm, thats basically been confirmed from the start. Someone/a group of someones lead by a figure has been creating discord and chaos to destabilize the world. Its one of the first things they said about the game.

[herkles]

question is whom? 

 

my money is on either the Tevinter or the Elder one. 

[Mornmagor]

Morm, thats basically been confirmed from the start. Someone/a group of someones lead by a figure has been creating discord and chaos to destabilize the world. Its one of the first things they said about the game.

 

It is? /scratch head

 

I knew that! I just wanted to see if you knew it as well

 

/innocent 0:]

[Heimdall]

IMO it shouldn't be simply "entertained". To keep the circle Justinia should have promised it. And after having contemplated an Exalted March on the Kirkwall circle, suspending the college of magi, and a templar attempted sabotage of her tranquility cure research, I don't trust her actually pulling it off.
 
And time and again non-mages use the mages they fear when its convenient for them - they can't have it both ways. Also, what Anders said in DA2 I wish my inquisitor could say to Vivienne: "The people fear what we can do, but to use that fear to bludgeon us into submission is wrong. And they do it with our blessing."

A willing ear is a starts, and Justinia was more than that. She represented the best chance Mages have had to improve their lot in centuries and they cast that aside to pursue a reckless and destructive course without even discussing the matter with her.

Mages have done nothing to discourage that fear. They've attacked houses of worship, they've killed and attempted to kill beloved leaders of the common folk. Why shouldn't people fear them? Why shouldn't people want them contained? Grasp this, Viviene was simply observing the reality Mages like Anders fail to grasp. The people of the world fear or hate Mages, not just because of what they might do, but because of what they have done. They encourage the world to fear them and then demand to be treated as equals. Is it so wrong that Viviene sees what a ludicrous course that is?

[Medhia_Nox]

*eyes Mornmagor suspiciously *  Where were YOU the night of the explosion!?  ANSWER!

[Mornmagor]

*eyes Mornmagor suspiciously *  Where were YOU the night of the explosion!?  ANSWER!

 

o.O /thinks hard for an excuse

 

I was too busy trying to take over the wor

 

I was watching everything while laughing hysteric

 

I have no idea what you're talking abo

 

Ahem... yes that's it!

 

Technically, the night of the explostion still hasn't come!

[Medhia_Nox]

@Mornmagor:  Hmm... you make a compelling argument.  You will be spared torture until the 18th of the 11th Month in the Year of the Maker 2014.

 

*places brand in the fire*  Then... the Inquisition will have its answer.

[lil yonce]

@Hemidall; No, that was one mage and he could very well be dead. If non-mages truly believe that all must pay for the actions of one man, I see no reason not to take the same attitude as a mage regarding say, Meredith, Lambert - the rest of the order and their supporters. I see no reason to hold allegiance to non-mages when they hold none to mages.

[Mornmagor]

Indeed!

 

And since i'm the Inquisitor, i'm safe!!

 

(in my playthrough)

[Vilegrim]

@Vilegrim: Says the man who goes to a grocery store to "fend for himself".

Says the man who has been homeless. Admittedly only for just over a month, a long time ago but still.

[Medhia_Nox]

Fascinating... you're the second person who claims to have been homeless and is now talking to me on the internet about playing Dragon Age Inquisition.

[Vilegrim]

Fascinating... you're the second person who claims to have been homeless and is now talking to me on the internet about playing Dragon Age Inquisition.

It was a long time ago, and for about a month, but still happened.

[wcholcombe]

ok and this thread has now followed the same path as all the other templar/circle/mage threads....

 

Peace out!

[Heimdall]

@Hemidall; No, that was one mage and he could very well be dead. If non-mages truly believe that all must pay for the actions of one man, I see no reason not to take the same attitude as a mage regarding say, Meredith, Lambert - the rest of the order and the people that support them. I see no reason to hold allegiance to non-mages when they hold none to mages.

I'm talking about what the people see. They see Mages killing beloved high profile figures, and you wonder why the people would prefer Mages contained? Why they fear the idea of letting them loose on the world without the Chantry to hold them back? Justified or not, that's the reality of public opinion. Something Viviene understands.

[efd731]

ok and this thread has now followed the same path as all the other templar/circle/mage threads....

Peace out!

Admittedly we've derailed, but at least its entertaining!! Like a car crash or a house fire!!!

[Vilegrim]

I'm talking about what the people see. They see Mages killing beloved high profile figures, and you wonder why the people would prefer Mages contained? Why they fear the idea of letting them loose on the world without the Chantry to hold them back? Justified or not, that's the reality of public opinion. Something Viviene understands.

Then teach them terror.

[Xilizhra]

Also of note... Anders was:  One Mage who killed hundreds and blew up a massive building.

 

I don't recall Meredith being capable of that even in her Super Saiyan form.  She mostly just became a really good Cirque Du Soleil performer.

Meredith was immediately cornered by a whole crowd of other people when she did that. Anders worked in secret.

 

 

That's not what she's saying. At all. What she's saying is that mages seem to have drowned themselves in pity for so long that they've forgotten there's an entire world out there that fears them at best. Hates them at worst. Viviene isn't talking as if she has no idea what mages have gone through, she's talking as if she actually has a clue what the world thinks of mages.

 

And she's right. Look at the Inquisition streams. The populace has no love for templars, but mages are despised just as much. In one of the recent streams, a mage and templars are fighting near a refugee camp, and the guard on duty shoots both sides. She doesn't help "free the mage from his evil captors" she shoots both.

I'll call said guard to account if I can, by the way (admittedly unlikely).

 

 

I'm talking about what the people see. They see Mages killing beloved high profile figures, and you wonder why the people would prefer Mages contained? Why they fear the idea of letting them loose on the world without the Chantry to hold them back? Justified or not, that's the reality of public opinion. Something Viviene understands.

I'm willing to entertain, as I said, the idea that Vivienne and I have the same goal and just differences of opinion on the best way to achieve it. And perhaps not even that, so much as the fact that I refuse to withdraw support for the mages just because of the rebellion; it may have been strategically unsound, but hardly immoral.

[Heimdall]

Then teach them terror.

A great way to guarantee further torment for all future generations of Mages once these have all been burned at the stake.

[Vilegrim]

A great way to guarantee further torment for all future generations of Mages once these have all been burned at the stake.

By whom?

[Heimdall]

I'm willing to entertain, as I said, the idea that Vivienne and I have the same goal and just differences of opinion on the best way to achieve it. And perhaps not even that, so much as the fact that I refuse to withdraw support for the mages just because of the rebellion; it may have been strategically unsound, but hardly immoral.

Well, I don't get the impression Viviene would call it immoral either, just thick headed. Perhaps she still seeks to help them, indirectly. The Mages will need help in the fallout of this ill advised rebellion, the help a mage well positioned in the Orlesian court (Or the Inquisition) might be able to provide.

She may also feel that the best way to help the Mages is to get them back in some sort of Circle system.

[Heimdall]

By whom?

You know, all those normal people that vastly outnumber them and will likely stone mage children at the first sign of magic now that you've "shown them terror".