what about as a cure for being made wrongfully tranquil? Thats a pretty damn good reason. Also lol at xil and her underdogs
makes the forums feel like home.
As there are no known living wrongfully tranquil mages, this doesn't seem like much of an issue.
I would think finding a cure to tranquility would be a good thing? Well you are a good example of one of the zealots that makes moderation hard.
It was, I admit, better than nothing. But Justinia was unable to truly control the templars.
how do we know? How many tranquil were made that way by corrupt templars? Ignoring that, how many could be convinced to pass their harrowing and succeed as proper mages if the circles were a more welcoming place? Surely less people being robot-like husks of themselves is a good thingAs there are no known living wrongfully tranquil mages, this doesn't seem like much of an issue.
she was unable to control Lambert, which amountsto the same thing, but is a difference. I know we'll mnever agree that mages need some form of the circle, but she was definitely their best chance for peaceful reform and better conditions in the circles.It was, I admit, better than nothing. But Justinia was unable to truly control the templars.
@Tzeentchian Apostrophe: You think Uldred would have "thought about the children"?
And Kirkwall is an anomaly - they've said this many times.
Do you really think this mage rebellion is thinking about children anywhere? The children getting bombed by random fireballs? Shot by random arrows? The mage children being consumed by demons because they're so full of fear and fatigue during a time when demons are literally raining from the sky?
Yeah - not a single group is "thinking about the children" in the current scenario.And don't even get me started on anyone who did the Dark Ritual saying something like this.
Of course not, this is why Uldred is the villain in this story, funny that it is someone like you who sees the similarity between Uldred's ideas and carelessness to the Templar's doctrine.
Kirkwall is an anomaly when someone brings it as an example to Templar cruelty, but a servicable example for how mages are bad and should be treated even worse, right?
I doubt that mages go around burning children even during the rebelion, sure, I can see a innocents getting hurt if Templars jumped a mage in the middle of a street, but that's something else entirely, there is a clear difference between victims of collateral damage to thrusting a sword in the heart of a child that did nothing wrong.
Morrigan's ritual has nothing to do with this, both because what was born was not really a child but rather a very different being, and also because there was no harm caused by it to anyone living. The morality of this also depends on wether or not you believe Morrigan's explanation (which I have no doubt that you don't...), because personally, I don't think morrigan (or rather Flemeth) hoped to take the power of a god to herself, but rather bring into the picture a counter to the power of the Chantry.
Of course, this whole deal may rankle a religious person sensitivities, "playing god" and all that, (and maybe also the abortion thing if you believe that there was a living fetus that got killed by the ritual) but that's rather subjective.
not too sure where you're going with this, but unlike in reality, people in dragon age have souls. This means that the DR baby had its soul scooped out of it to make room for the Archdemon. Thats pretty sketchy andhorrible.Of course not, this is why Uldred is the villain in this story, funny that it is someone like you who sees the similarity between Uldred's ideas and carelessness to the Templar's doctrine.
Kirkwall is an anomaly when someone brings it as an example to Templar cruelty, but a servicable example for how mages are bad and should be treated even worse, right?
I doubt that mages go around burning children even during the rebelion, sure, I can see a innocents getting hurt if Templars jumped a mage in the middle of a street, but that's something else entirely, there is a clear difference between victims of collateral damage to thrusting a sword in the heart of a child that did nothing wrong.
Morrigan's ritual has nothing to do with this, both because what was born was not really a child but rather a very different being, and also because there was no harm caused by it to anyone living. The morality of this also depends on wether or not you believe Morrigan's explanation (which I have no doubt that you don't...), because personally, I don't think morrigan (or rather Flemeth) hoped to take the power of a god to herself, but rather bring into the picture a counter to the power of the Chantry.
Of course, this whole deal may rankle a religious person sensitivities, "playing god" and all that, (and maybe also the abortion thing if you believe that there was a living fetus that got killed by the ritual) but that's rather subjective.
not too sure where you're going with this, but unlike in reality, people in dragon age have souls. This means that the DR baby had its soul scooped out of it to make room for the Archdemon. Thats pretty sketchy andhorrible.
I mentioned this in answer to the previous post ny Nox, he raised this point.
"Unlike in this reality" - many people will disagree with that.
In any case, a soul is a religious concept. I could just as easily call this Anima, Spirit, or whatever else that does not have religious connotations.
At this point a fetus is likely not aware at all, and certainly not self aware. But yes, I did mention the similarity to RL religious position on abortion.
Anyone who believes in an afterlife believes in a soul or something relatively similair, as otherwise you wouldn't have anything that would be, well, you to go on to that afterlife once your body dies. Given that there are many more religious people than nonreligious, and the top 3 religions are Christainity, Bhuddhism, and Islam, all of which believe in an afterlife/next life, that would be quite the vast majority of people that do believe in a soul.
On to the DA universe, that baby's soul might actually be in a better place. Think about it, if you die without commiting any sin (and I don't believe there is any concept of original sin in DA), you're guaranteed a spot in whatever the positive afterlife is. Well, I'm not entirely sure there is a positive afterlife in DA, given the whole descration of the Golden City, but if you've literally commited no sins you probably have the best chance at getting to it. I'd be willing to be that Dalish religions have similiar provisos, although Dwarfs might be in trouble considering they had mostly ancestor whorship and you can't really make much of an impact if you die before you're beyond the fetus stage.
And is there any real evidence to say that there was a soul in the...what, one cell of baby at that point? While it's rejected today, for a long while the Catholic church believed in the idea of quickening (when a baby's movements could be felt) is when the soul entered the body, and that abortion before that point (generally about 8 weeks in) was not murder. Given that we have absolutely no idea how the soul works in DA, they might follow the quickening theory, and thus no soul had to be sacrificed to revive the archdemon. And then we could also move onto the more fantasitcal idea of both souls mixing and the like, of which there is no religious precendent because well, it's generally seen as impossible in most religions.
Safety in a circle? what a joke. an occasional rape or murder to be topped of by the occasional annulment. The mages own the mundanes nothing. if mundanes insist of killing mages simply because they are mages then the mages every right to destroy the circles and enslave or commit genocide in return . And when your enemies are death or broken you live in safety.
Yes, safety. Because even the risk of the rare rape or annulment is safer than life for mages without the Circle.
The chance of rape or annulment is relatively low (while nineteen annulments over a thousand years show that the system is flawed, they also show it isn't common). Without the Circle though, mages have a high chance of getting killed by the mundanes, or get eaten by demons.
@Hemidall; No, that was one mage and he could very well be dead. If non-mages truly believe that all must pay for the actions of one man, I see no reason not to take the same attitude as a mage regarding say, Meredith, Lambert - the rest of the order and their supporters. I see no reason to hold allegiance to non-mages when they hold none to mages.
Can you guarantee the safety of the mages who do not wish to fight?
Because if not, there is your reason.
I doubt that mages go around burning children even during the rebelion, sure, I can see a innocents getting hurt if Templars jumped a mage in the middle of a street, but that's something else entirely, there is a clear difference between victims of collateral damage to thrusting a sword in the heart of a child that did nothing wrong.
The seperatist mages have, and still are, hurting children through their ignorance. In their zeal for freedom, they completely forgot how much the world hates mages and that children who show magical ability would be feared, hated and eventually killed because of their rebellion.
Vivienne on the other hand, does realize this. And that's what she's criticizing.
Their are in fact known mages that were illegally made tranquil in da2. We the people find self avident that all men or created equal, and thus allow the right too everyone the right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness.As there are no known living wrongfully tranquil mages, this doesn't seem like much of an issue.
Their are in fact known mages that were illegally made tranquil in da2
Ryriena has the right of it. Karl was one. Alrik had him made Tranquil illegally (it is illegal to Tranquil a Harrowed mage) because they wanted to trap Anders. If you kill the Templar Lieutenent first and loot his corpse during combat (only way you will find it) you find a note on his body where Alrik threatens him (the Lt) if he doesn't do as he's told. The Wiki details this letter.
http://dragonage.wik.../Templar_Letter
There are rumors of a more widespread problem up through act 2 actually, but those can be attributed to Alrik going behind Meredith's back with the Tranquil Solution she rejected.Ryriena has the right of it. Karl was one. Alrik had him made Tranquil illegally (it is illegal to Tranquil a Harrowed mage) because they wanted to trap Anders. If you kill the Templar Lieutenent first and loot his corpse during combat (only way you will find it) you find a note on his body where Alrik threatens him (the Lt) if he doesn't do as he's told. The Wiki details this letter.
http://dragonage.wik.../Templar_Letter
Starkhaven mages are tranquiled by random if you have defended them, otherwise they are killed in random (3 is made tranquil or killed in total). This is the justice of templars? Randomly have fun with mages while Grace who is the true criminal remains alive. How invigorating.
Karl was one. Alrik had him made Tranquil illegally (it is illegal to Tranquil a Harrowed mage) because they wanted to trap Anders. If you kill the Templar Lieutenent first and loot his corpse during combat (only way you will find it) you find a note on his body where Alrik threatens him (the Lt) if he doesn't do as he's told. The Wiki details this letter.
I aways regreated not having an option to make Alrik suffer before killing him, kind of like Shepard can choose to torture Balak a little before executing him in Bring down the sky.
That was aways something that bothered me. If an mage **** it up, they die. But if an templar is the one that makes something bad, unless the Warden or Hawke are there to make them pay, they will likely get away with it. The utter lack of policing the templar order haves is appalling. If my Inquisitor were to ever discover his soldier are murdering and raping people with impunity, he would make an point of personally beheade them.
Their are in fact known mages that were illegally made tranquil in da2. We the people find self avident that all men or created equal, and thus allow the right too everyone the right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness.
I never said there weren't mages made tranquil wrongfully.... I said none are alive.
However, it's also stated by Anders in act two if I am not mistaken.
Anders says Meredith is making mages Tranquil. Anders is wrong. That said, we have no evidence of any Tranquil in act 2 or 3 as being made by Alrik... Thus there is no evidence of an wrongly made tranquil besides Karl.
I never said there weren't mages made tranquil wrongfully.... I said none are alive.
Anders says Meredith is making mages Tranquil. Anders is wrong. That said, we have no evidence of any Tranquil in act 2 or 3 as being made by Alrik... Thus there is no evidence of an wrongly made tranquil besides Karl.
Even if what you say true which I think it isn't it takes one injustice and drop to create a ripple effect, Anders is in Kirkwall because of what happened to Karl and you know how that ended. Imagine if Anders never came to Kirkwall.
Even if what you say true which I think it isn't it takes one injustice and drop to create a ripple effect, Anders is in Kirkwall because of what happened to Karl and you know how that ended. Imagine if Anders never came to Kirkwall.
I do. I imagine the Templars in Ferelden weren't incompetent, and killed him when the Warden handed him over to them, all the time. Thedas would certainly be a better place... Shame they couldn't do their job. 7 escapes, after all. There's a case to be made that the Ferelden Circle is too lenient with their mages.
I'm not sure I'm aquainted with the results you're talking about, but Decimus taught those Mages to be maleficar. There's nothing illegal about making them tranquil. That Grace evaded detection is a failure of the Templars, but not really relevant.Starkhaven mages are tranquiled by random if you have defended them, otherwise they are killed in random (3 is made tranquil or killed in total). This is the justice of templars? Randomly have fun with mages while Grace who is the true criminal remains alive. How invigorating.
I do. I imagine the Templars in Ferelden weren't incompetent, and killed him when the Warden handed him over to them, all the time. Thedas would certainly be a better place... Shame they couldn't do their job. 7 escapes, after all. There's a case to be made that the Ferelden Circle is too lenient with their mages.
I'm not sure I'm aquainted with the results you're talking about, but Decimus taught those Mages to be maleficar. There's nothing illegal about making them tranquil. That Grace evaded detection is a failure of the Templars, but not really relevant.
Just because some use blood magic does not mean all were using it.I'm not sure I'm aquainted with the results you're talking about, but Decimus taught those Mages to be maleficar. There's nothing illegal about making them tranquil. That Grace evaded detection is a failure of the Templars, but not really relevant.
Yes and the fact Anders stated that their is influx of mages in the gallows that sales things to people for the chantry. Although he uses saleing their bloody wares in one of his banters.
And? That's evidence of there being Tranquil in the Gallows. Not that every mage in the Gallows is being made Tranquil at Meredith's will... Which is what Anders claims is happening.
They were obeying the rules, only a maleficar can be killed and that is either a blood mage or a mage who has harmed others. Anders was neither therefore he wasn't killed. The Templars of kirkwall were incompetent, not Ferelden.
From the Codex on Apostates:
No matter how a mage has become apostate, the Chantry treats them alike: Templars begin a systematic hunt to bring the apostate to justice. In almost all cases, "justice" is execution. If there is some overriding reason the mage should live, the Rite of Tranquility is employed instead
Anders was, and is, an Apostate. That he wasn't made Tranquil, at the very least, is evidence of Ferelden's Circle being far too lenient.
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