I think practicing blood magic and raising the dead probably qualifies.
That makes them a maleficar and therefore even killing them is justified. We are not talking about them. The point is if a circle is operating like it should, as long as you don't harm anyone or resort to blood magic you will never be killed or be made tranquil unless someone breaks the law. So Anders was no snowflake, the Ferelden circle didn't break the law.
Ha! I was expecting such a response. That's how law works, it doesn't need a degree.
What do you think its "against the law" means? It means its illegal.
What is an exception? When a rare condition is met in which case breaking the law is legal.
So is making mages who passed their harrowing illegal? Yes.
Its as simple as it gets.
What Law?
There is no law, since there is no judicial system of Laws in Thedas. National 'Laws' are decided by the Nobility and are safely ignored by the same Nobility when it suits them. Are there any Lawyers in Thedas?
The rules about tranquiling mages were I assume set up by the Chantry (with imput from the Templars and Mages) and as the creator of those rules himself states it is NOT illegal to tranquil a harrowed Mage, IF that mage is breaking the rules or if they request to be tranquiled they can be. He also states that a weak First Enchanter can be ignored leading to I assume excessive use of tranquilling.
Templars who broke the rules could have be thrown out of the order leading to painful death through Lyrium withdrawal (we met one who was in DA2).
These were rules not laws and they could have been modified if you head the head of the Chantry on your side.....of course you could just start an unwinnable war and force the majority of mages to follow you to the inevitable slaughter of your people, but hey at least a handful of Mages got to declare their FREEDOM!!! rather than take the golden opportunity of having the Chantry on the Mages side in a debate with the Templars.
It is the judgment of the Knight-Commander whether a mage needs to be made Tranquil. Chantry law forbids performing the Rite of Tranquility without significant provocation and the agreement of the relevant Circle's First Enchanter. "Provocation," in this case, means that the mage either cannot control their magic or is not willing to do so and this condition is rare in mages who are not blood mages. Because a mage who has passed the Harrowing is deemed to be strong enough to resist demonic possession, forcibly making them Tranquil is theoretically against Chantry law. Practically however, the situation varies from tower to tower.
So this depends on what you imagine significant provocation means. From the usage of the word significant I wager it doesn't happen often.
The Chantry believes that any mage who refuses to be a part of the Circle system is unwilling to control their magic... Therefore, just being an apostate fulfills the "significant provocation" requirement...
Karl attempts to get his "tranquil solution" approved by higher ups, and when Meredith and Elthina both veto it, he goes behind their backs. There is at least one woman who has been Tranquilled for use as Alrik's plaything as ambient dialogue in the Gallows will demonstrate. Alrik intimates that Ella would have suffered the same fate if not for Hawke. I have special fondness for the Ella character since she was one of Circle Bethany's students. I usually tell her 'go see your folks then get out of town' because I don't want her getting hurt in Act 3.
She's the only mage I've ever released who actually did okay if I recall correctly--Hawke gets a letter of thanks later.
The Chantry believes that any mage who refuses to be a part of the Circle system is unwilling to control their magic... Therefore, just being an apostate fulfills the "significant provocation" requirement...
No, apostates are brought back peacefully provided they don't resist it. Your example is resisting it. Apostates who have eluded the circle since childhood are harrowed.
It's funny - in that Tevinter Support thread - they celebrate the "land of opportunity" that Tevinter is knowing full well to move up the ranks you have to be a despicable person.
The Tevinter thread is filled with roleplayers who know full well that Tevinter is the land of scumbags and wouldn't come anywhere near the place should they be dropped into Thedas, though. 
Nobody there bothers to genuinely defend Tevinter as a good thing. We just roll with the vilainy.
Over there we'd admire Vivienne's ambition, but scoff at her submissiveness towards those who are clearly her inferiors by birth.
No, apostates are brought back peacefully provided they don't resist it. Your example is resisting it. Apostates who have eluded the circle since childhood are harrowed.
Again, false. For the third time, this is a section of the codex on Apostates from DAO:
No matter how a mage has become apostate, the Chantry treats them alike: Templars begin a systematic hunt to bring the apostate to justice. In almost all cases, "justice" is execution. If there is some overriding reason the mage should live, the Rite of Tranquility is employed instead
Bethany's(and Anders') treatment is the exception...
What does it matter? The Chantry's laws about Tranquility and the like are already unjust and evil.
Again, false. For the third time, this is a section of the codex on Apostates from DAO:
Bethany's(and Anders') treatment is the exception...
DAO was retconned, the codex states all apostates are killed which is very false.
Bethany's, Anders' case is the norm actually. The circle always prefers to peacefully put the mages in the circle.
And it doesn't matter anymore, as the system is gone.
@Keroko: Oh, I know it's RP. 
But I feel like there are a lot of people that think Tevinter is a mage utopia (who don't RP there) - and then go and hate Vivienne for being ambitious and not submitting to the new mage regime in the south.
I really hope Morrigan is still derisive to the Circle Mages - and I hope she also has a similar attitude to Vivienne.
DAO was retconned, the codex states all apostates are killed which is very false.
Bethany's, Anders' case is the norm actually. The circle always prefers to peacefully put the mages in the circle.
You keep claiming a retcon with nothing to back you up...
I agree that a vast majority of the apostates we see in Kirkwall aren't put to death(or made Tranquil). But the majority of apostates we see in Ferelden are put to death rather than brought back(Anders is the only one said to be brought back alive) If anything, that shows the Circle of Kirkwall as being one of the most lenient of the Circles on the treatment of apostate mages(it's treatment of mages within the Circle is the harshest, but it has the most former apostates, so perhaps the treatment should be harsh)...
Why would she change her opinions that much, when she herself was raised from the chantry laws?@Keroko: Oh, I know it's RP.
But I feel like there are a lot of people that think Tevinter is a mage utopia (who don't RP there) - and then go and hate Vivienne for being ambitious and not submitting to the new mage regime in the south.
I really hope Morrigan is still derisive to the Circle Mages - and I hope she also has a similar attitude to Vivienne.
You keep claiming a retcon with nothing to back you up...
I agree that a vast majority of the apostates we see in Kirkwall aren't put to death(or made Tranquil). But the majority of apostates we see in Ferelden are put to death rather than brought back(Anders is the only one said to be brought back alive) If anything, that shows the Circle of Kirkwall as being one of the most lenient of the Circles on the treatment of apostate mages(it's treatment of mages within the Circle is the harshest, but it has the most former apostates, so perhaps the treatment should be harsh)...
"Majority of apostates". How many apostates we see in DAO exactly? The fact that they are not killed is automatic and default retcon to DAO codex, like so many other things that happens in DA2 and overrides DAO.
Apostates are not killed if they don't resist arrest. Its not leniency to simply follow the rules and customs.
@Keroko: Oh, I know it's RP.
But I feel like there are a lot of people that think Tevinter is a mage utopia (who don't RP there) - and then go and hate Vivienne for being ambitious and not submitting to the new mage regime in the south.
I really hope Morrigan is still derisive to the Circle Mages - and I hope she also has a similar attitude to Vivienne.
She hardly has a reason to be disdainful of the Circle mages now; they did exactly what she wanted them to.
I have no idea to what you are referring. The Starkhaven Mages were apostates, and with the possible exception of Alain, practiced blood magic. What on earth was random about them being pursued and killed/made Tranquil?They were obeying the rules, only a maleficar can be killed and that is either a blood mage or a mage who has harmed others. Anders was neither therefore he wasn't killed. The Templars of kirkwall were incompetent, not Ferelden. "Detection"? LMAO. they were made tranquil/killed randomly. What are you talking about?
I have no idea to what you are referring. The Starkhaven Mages were apostates, and with the possible exception of Alain, practiced blood magic. What on earth was random about them being pursued and killed/made Tranquil?
3 mages were chosen randomly for the punishment and Grace was not among them.
I doubt Morrigan cares one way or the other in regards to the mages' rebellion. She considered them sheep before, and doubtless will say they are still sheep because now instead of blindly following the Chantry/Circle they are blindly following the idea of the rebellion without any real inkling of the reality of their situation.
And that's kind of Vivienne's viewpoint.
When all is said and done, Morrigan cares only for Morrigan, and that's part of her charm.
I'm hoping we get to meet a cross section of the different factions with different viewpoints so I can get a handle on how to help them best.
I doubt Morrigan cares one way or the other in regards to the mages' rebellion. She considered them sheep before, and doubtless will say they are still sheep because now instead of blindly following the Chantry/Circle they are blindly following the idea of the rebellion without any real inkling of the reality of their situation.
And that's kind of Vivienne's viewpoint.
When all is said and done, Morrigan cares only for Morrigan, and that's part of her charm.
I'm hoping we get to meet a cross section of the different factions with different viewpoints so I can get a handle on how to help them best.
I'm fairly sure that won't be the case. All she was angry about before was the Circle mages submission; they're no longer doing that now. I'd like her viewpoint to actually contrast with Vivienne.
The problem his not a bunch of maniacs getting what's coming to them.
The problem is killing all the rest, including children.
#1 That is a whole different topic than what I responded to.
#2 I guess the higher ups in the mages and dorks like Anders should have thought of that before hand, they are the ones that forced the issue. The blood of those innocents are on the hands of Anders, he knew full well what was going to happen but the mage 'freedom fighters' view those mages as collateral damage.
I'm fairly sure that won't be the case. All she was angry about before was the Circle mages submission; they're no longer doing that now. I'd like her viewpoint to actually contrast with Vivienne.
Didn't the devs commented before that Vivienne despised Morrigan when they met at the court? I actually think it's possible. While Morrigan is not the kind to go out of her way to help the mages, I think she would approve of this rebellion.
#1 That is a whole different topic than what I responded to.
#2 I guess the higher ups in the mages and dorks like Anders should have thought of that before hand, they are the ones that forced the issue. The blood of those innocents are on the hands of Anders, he knew full well what was going to happen but the mage 'freedom fighters' view those mages as collateral damage.
And thus removing the blood from the hands of those who actually performed the slaughter?
He might have turned the vote but he was not the only voter. there still had to be a majority.
His vote was on behalf of perhaps the largest faction of mages, for years moderates that wanted to make the circle work, instead he pulled a 180 seconds after he was named spokesperson and voted the way he personally wanted things to go without having a thought for all the mages he was representing. As I said selfish and short sighted, much like Anders.
His vote was on behalf of perhaps the largest faction of mages, for years moderates that wanted to make the circle work, instead he pulled a 180 seconds after he was named spokesperson and voted the way he personally wanted things to go without having a thought for all the mages he was representing. As I said selfish and short sighted, much like Anders.
It was mentioned a few times in Origins that the Aequitarians were pulling out of the alliance with the Loyalists and were coming around to the Libertarian viewpoint, albeit expressed more moderately. I have little doubt that Rhys was fairly representing his fraternity.
Didn't the devs commented before that Vivienne despised Morrigan when they met at the court? I actually think it's possible. While Morrigan is not the kind to go out of her way to help the mages, I think she would approve of this rebellion.
Anything is possible. I'd welcome a chance to discuss it with her, anyway. I like when characters have different viewpoints from my protagonist. It makes for a much more interesting game.
While I loved Origins, I prefered DA2's rivalry system. I actually felt like Hawke was engaging in some interesting debates with her companions. It's one reason I find Carver a smidge more realistic/fun than Bethany. I love both mind you, but Carver felt more like a flesh and blood sibling than the sweet and mostly passive Bethany.
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