1751 réponses à ce sujet

[Keroko]

3 mages were chosen randomly for the punishment and Grace was not among them.

 

Where can we find the info on this? I'd like to double-check.

 

"Majority of apostates". How many apostates we see in DAO exactly? The fact that they are not killed is automatic and default retcon to DAO codex, like so many other things that happens in DA2 and overrides DAO. 

 

Apostates are not killed if they don't resist arrest. Its not leniency to simply follow the rules and customs.

 

Quite a few.

 

Well, we don't really talk to them though... we just tend to kill them.
 

A lot of them.

 

And that's not even talking about the various quests that specifically ask us to do this.

[Xilizhra]

Quite a few.

 

Well, we don't really talk to them though... we just tend to kill them.
 

A lot of them.

 

And that's not even counting the various quests that specifically ask us to do this.

Thankfully, the latter doesn't appear if you aren't anti-mage. As for the former... well, that's the only Chanter's Board quest that I outright skip.

[Heimdall]

3 mages were chosen randomly for the punishment and Grace was not among them.

Hm, I don't recall any such event. Source?

[Keroko]

Thankfully, the latter doesn't appear if you aren't anti-mage. As for the former... well, that's the only Chanter's Board quest that I outright skip.

 

Point remains though, the quest exists and killing them is considered a perfectly viable solution. Mandatory, even.

 

And that's before the hundreds of mage enemies we kill over the course of the game itself.

[Sartoz]

Maybe it's because I'm ESL, but in my opinion she seemed to be saying that the Circle mages were too sheltered and didn't know how good they had it. Which... just no. We saw what was going on in Kirkwall (again, Alrik and his Tranquil harem) and apparently it wasn't that good in other Circles either (the Annulment of the Circle in Rivain, the fact that the Templars in the White Spire got away with murder - quite literally), so I'd say the mages really didn't have it all that good.

 

Her points about the regular people and their fears are true, however, and its not irrelevant in any way.

 

Agreed!

Viv speaks from an elitist and pampered position. The Circle is a jail and the Templars the Jailers. Once in jail you stayed in jail except for fighting during a blight and possibly die. Hello?... what kind of life is this?

 

Tevinter is doing fine with mages in power... yes they have slaves... but look at Orlesian nobles and how they treat the elves... I see no difference.  The mage/templar tension was a power keg ready to explode... it only needed a spark. If not at kirwall then somewhere else. The idiom "who watches the Watchers?" is a perfect example why the Circle/Templar setup was doomed to fail sooner or later. 

 

And before anyone get on the bandwagon about how powerfull they are and therefore must be controlled, I give you examples of mundane humans killing millions.. ie: Hitler, Stalin..etc. in our world. In Thedas, we have Andraste's rebellion and political wars killing millions as well....and currently the Orlesian Civil War.

 

Do I like Viv? not really. She's just so full of herself.

[Lulupab]

Where can we find the info on this? I'd like to double-check.

 

 

 

if you make pro-Templar choices, 3 are killed randomly otherwise 3 are made tranquil randomly:

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Act_of_Mercy

 

Also:

 

[Keroko]

if you make pro-Templar choices, 3 are killed randomly otherwise 3 are made tranquil randomly:

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Act_of_Mercy

 

Also: -snip image-

 

Thanks. Yeah, that's... pretty definite.

 

Agreed!

Viv speaks from an elitist and pampered position. The Circle is a jail and the Templars the Jailers. Once in jail you stayed in jail except for fighting during a blight and possibly die. Hello?... what kind of life is this?

 

*sigh* I need to make a copy/pasta for this, but has it occured to you that some mages were fine with the Circle system, and didn't want to fight? And that with the flames of hatred towards mages burning brighter than ever, young children with magic potential now face almost certain death as there is no circle to take care of them anymore?

 

Because so far, that has been the result of this rebelion. And Vivienne knew this, while the rest of the mages were too concerned with their own freedom to look at what their rebelion would do to mages as a whole.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  Morrigan wanted them to play into the hands of a manipulative power and pick the worst possible time to abandon vast tomes of magical research and items and flee to a far flung ruin with no plan or food or support? 

 

The only thing I can hear her saying is:  "We'll at least the fools should be able to manage making fire."

 

Morrigan is as ambitious and ruthless as Vivienne will ever be presented... she doesn't care about "mage freedom" or even "mage slavery" - she's not going to suddenly become swept up in the Thedosian version of the Spartacus revolution.  And talk about pampered - the girl is the very picture of spoiled brat when you meet her.  Sure - she didn't have silks or jewels... but the power trip she's been on her whole life is titanic.  

[Ryriena]

I don't think they owe the mundanes anything and their hate is fuled by the CHANTRY. The Salem Witch Trials was also done out of fear or Hysteria. And only stopped, when a noble at the time wife was accused of witchcraft. My point is that it will only take one person to say enough of this crap, which is what happened in this rebelion.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Ryriena:  Umm... you're aware these mages actually throw fireballs though right?  And turn into abominations?  

 

And what do mundanes owe mages?  

[Xilizhra]

Point remains though, the quest exists and killing them is considered a perfectly viable solution. Mandatory, even.

 

And that's before the hundreds of mage enemies we kill over the course of the game itself.

Well, there's a reason I want to destroy the Templar Order and severely limit the Chantry.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

And thus removing the blood from the hands of those who actually performed the slaughter?

I don't think that's the argument. It might be, but the text of his post doesn't strictly require that viewpoint. (If he his, I'd argue he's wrong. Guilt is not a zero-sum game.)

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

 

Well, there's a reason I want to destroy the Templar Order and severely limit the Chantry.

 

Well, Cullen apparently ditched the Templars in disillusion over Meredith (better late than never, right?) and brought any Templars who viewed him as worth following with him. And the Divine is probably at the peace conference that blows up minutes into the game. So, step one complete.

[Keroko]

I don't think they owe the mundanes anything and their hate is fuled by the CHANTRY. The Salem Witch Trials was also done out of fear or Hysteria. And only stopped, when a noble at the time wife was accused of witchcraft. My point is that it will only take one person to say enough of this crap, which is what happened in this rebelion.

 

The Chantry, Tevinter, the very real threat of posesion and rogue mages.

 

And we fully realise that a lot of mages had enough of the opression and started to push back. What we are saying -and what you keep ignoring- is that the mages who started to push back were either oblivious to or ignored the consequences their actions would have on their fellow mages, particularely the young and those who did not wish to fight. As well as severely push back the fight for mage freedom in the long run.

[Adanu]

You say that like abuses like that don't happen in every system ever.

 

Not once did Vivi say all templars were flawless.

 

And the fact that we don't know how many Templars are like them and you're trying to minimize the suffering of the mages by dismissing anecdotes as isolated and not indicative of the whole,,,

 

As for VIviienne, spoken like a true elitist who doesn't understand what actually went on on those CIrcles, and seems to not get that some people would prefer having lives outside of the Templars slavery. I figured I'd hate Vivienne, and I was right.

[TheTurtle]

I don't think they owe the mundanes anything and their hate is fuled by the CHANTRY. The Salem Witch Trials was also done out of fear or Hysteria. And only stopped, when a noble at the time wife was accused of witchcraft. My point is that it will only take one person to say enough of this crap, which is what happened in this rebelion.

Not a noble's wife a revrends wife.

[Ryriena]

@Ryriena: Umm... you're aware these mages actually throw fireballs though right? And turn into abominations?

And what do mundanes owe mages?

How many mundanss have we've seen turn in too an abomination? That one Templar, recruit Willmord. That is proof that anyone can become abominations. And, how many had Logain killed during his time as the Hero of River Dane? I don't care that they can throw fire balls that is no reason for oppressing a group because they might do something.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Vivienne is just a loyalist and political hungry b*tch, she does care only about herself and her position

 

she was throw away from her enchanter position in mages prison what was destroyed by rebel mages and after she go to Celine who later was replace her with morrigan, now she is go to Inquisitor...

 

i am sure will send her far away or execute..she is not deserve anything else, she is not deserve any support or respect and i am not talking about any frinedship...she is worst than wynne

 

she is ugly and wear clown clothes and portrate herself more than she is, like any orlais scum

 

her  as Cullen, Lelianna place in a grave

[Ryriena]

Not a noble's wife a revrends wife.

Thanks for this, since I had forgotten that it was a reverend wife that had been accused.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Ryriena:  I would agree that there is no reason to oppress a group for what they might do.

 

However, I disagree that they were oppressed to begin with.  I would absolutely agree some templars committed terrible abuses and should be punished.  I would absolutely agree that some reforms are necessary.  And I absolutely agree that Kirkwall was a complete and utter disaster (though for me - it's from both groups). 

[Keroko]

As for VIviienne, spoken like a true elitist who doesn't understand what actually went on on those CIrcles, and seems to not get that some people would prefer having lives outside of the Templars slavery. I figured I'd hate Vivienne, and I was right.

Still waiting for that source that Vivienne has no idea what mages are going through.

Vivienne is just a loyalist and political hungry b*tch, she does care only about herself and her position

she was throw away from her enchanter position in mages prison what was destroyed by rebel mages and after she go to Celine who later was replace her with morrigan, now she is go to Inquisitor...

i am sure will send her far away or execute..she is not deserve anything else, she is not deserve any support or respect and i am not talking about any frinedship...she is worst than wynne

she is ugly and wear clown clothes and portrate herself more than she is, like any orlais scum

A political loyalist who seems to have a much clearer picture of the consequences of this rebelion for mages as a whole than the actual rebels themselves.

Not sure if that's a compliment for Vivienne, or a sign of just how out of touch the rebels are...

[Ryriena]

@Ryriena: I would agree that there is no reason to oppress a group for what they might do.

However, I disagree that they were oppressed to begin with. I would absolutely agree some templars committed terrible abuses and should be punished. I would absolutely agree that some reforms are necessary. And I absolutely agree that Kirkwall was a complete and utter disaster (though for me - it's from both groups).

I disagree that it was a isolated case or the mages wouldn't be rebelling, nor would've had support for the rebellion, if this was from both groups. Though most of your post I do agree with.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

How many mundanss have we've seen turn in too an abomination? That one Templar, recruit Willmord. That is proof that anyone can become abominations. And, how many had Logain killed during his time as the Hero of River Dane? I don't care that they can throw fire balls that is no reason for oppressing a group because they might do something.

The lore makes very clear that only mages can turn into abominations. I know what you're talking about in the gameplay, and the writers have already flatly stated that that bit of gameplay isn't actually possible. (Though I wouldn't like my arguments on what can and can't happen to revolve around fight scenes that we know have been filtered through Varric's desire to make Hawke and himself look badass anyway.)

 

As for isolating mages because of what they might do, you could fairly easily compare it to isolating someone who might have some nasty disease. It's nasty, but it's what needs to be done. (I would not be arguing this if it weren't for the abomination thing, you understand. The things a mage might choose to do can be handled in other ways.)

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  Morrigan wanted them to play into the hands of a manipulative power and pick the worst possible time to abandon vast tomes of magical research and items and flee to a far flung ruin with no plan or food or support? 

 

The only thing I can hear her saying is:  "We'll at least the fools should be able to manage making fire."

 

Morrigan is as ambitious and ruthless as Vivienne will ever be presented... she doesn't care about "mage freedom" or even "mage slavery" - she's not going to suddenly become swept up in the Thedosian version of the Spartacus revolution.  And talk about pampered - the girl is the very picture of spoiled brat when you meet her.  Sure - she didn't have silks or jewels... but the power trip she's been on her whole life is titanic.  

She seems to have a dim view of the Circle's views on magical research, so I don't think she'd consider too much to be lost. She's all about freedom as a concept, which can sometimes even motivate her to strange forms of altruism, like wanting to release Sten.

[Beerfish]

It was mentioned a few times in Origins that the Aequitarians were pulling out of the alliance with the Loyalists and were coming around to the Libertarian viewpoint, albeit expressed more moderately. I have little doubt that Rhys was fairly representing his fraternity.

Sheer nonsense.