1751 réponses à ce sujet

[Eudaemonium]

The lore makes very clear that only mages can turn into abominations.

 

How does this explain Evangeline? I thought she was a Templar (granted Templars do effectively use magic, but they aren't 'mages').

[Xilizhra]

Sheer nonsense.

And wherein lies your counterevidence?

[Beerfish]

if you make pro-Templar choices, 3 are killed randomly otherwise 3 are made tranquil randomly:

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Act_of_Mercy

 

Also:

 

You are posting a passing comment by a mage standing next to Grace as solid support for your stance?  Okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

[Beerfish]

And wherein lies your counterevidence?

In the same place as your original comment.

[Xilizhra]

In the same place as your original comment.

The fact that the Aequitarians were coming around to the Libertarian side?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Sheer nonsense.

In fairness, I think for all we know he might have been. The Aequitarians have been starting to reconsider the Templars role and connection to the Chantry, and Lambert's crap would not have helped much. That said, I don't think it's made entirely clear that he consulted them. (I have not read the book and am entirely prepared to be corrected if Xilizhra can do so.)

 

 

How does this explain Evangeline? I thought she was a Templar (granted Templars do effectively use magic, but they aren't 'mages').

I didn't say they can't be possessed. The thing about the term "abomination" isn't a catchall for demoniacs: the term explicitly refers to a possessed mage, which possesses both the mage's power and the demon's own magic. (That is why abominations are so feared.)

[Xilizhra]

In fairness, I think for all we know he might have been. The Aequitarians have been starting to reconsider the Templars role and connection to the Chantry, and Lambert's crap would not have helped much. That said, I don't think it's made entirely clear that he consulted them. (I have not read the book and am entirely prepared to be corrected if Xilizhra can do so.)

The book doesn't say whether Rhys did or not, but since he was appointed the fraternity's leader even after leaving the Libertarians for them, I have a strong feeling that the fraternity knew what it wanted.

[Beerfish]

I don't think they owe the mundanes anything and their hate is fuled by the CHANTRY. The Salem Witch Trials was also done out of fear or Hysteria. And only stopped, when a noble at the time wife was accused of witchcraft. My point is that it will only take one person to say enough of this crap, which is what happened in this rebelion.

You have it ass backwards with your salem witchcraft bit.  Removing the circles, templars and chantry from the equation is going to give you the salem witch trials.  Any one showing magic from any age and the local village will have their own little witch trial.  Also the chantry and templar efforts have not been stopped at all by nobles etc.  Isolde and connor for example, they were going to be subject to the same trip to the circle as the rest.

[Asdrubael Vect]

The lore makes very clear that only mages can turn into abominations. I know what you're talking about in the gameplay, and the writers have already flatly stated that that bit of gameplay isn't actually possible. (Though I wouldn't like my arguments on what can and can't happen to revolve around fight scenes that we know have been filtered through Varric's desire to make Hawke and himself look badass anyway.)

 

As for isolating mages because of what they might do, you could fairly easily compare it to isolating someone who might have some nasty disease. It's nasty, but it's what needs to be done. (I would not be arguing this if it weren't for the abomination thing, you understand. The things a mage might choose to do can be handled in other ways.)

according by the lore anything(even rocks and tree and tranquil) can be possesed by the deamon and that noone exept mage is not able to resist demon powers and control deamon

 

mages who can be possesed by deamon are rare and in games 99% of all posessed mages was a aprentices from Orlais Chantry Cirlces who have the worst-censored magic education(only Qunari  have worst) and was turning mad by templars "care" who beat, rape them and do so many things for them so they rather try to do blood magic without any experience and become abomination than go back in Circle

 

Orlais Chantry cirlces exist for only 700 years(and thedas have 8500 years of recorded history and only 1 thing as blight is propoganded by Orlais Chantry as all mages crime...even if we know that it was old gods and blood mages create grey wardens) and they do nothing good for thedas mages who are slaves of Orlais Chantry and non-mages who become mindless zealots...the only "good thing" what they do is make Orlais and Orlais Chantry rich and powerfull because they have magic services monopoly

 

 

most part of Thedas and his nations does not have those Orlais Chantry Cirles and many mages was live without any control and teachers and never become deamons 

[Beerfish]

In fairness, I think for all we know he might have been. The Aequitarians have been starting to reconsider the Templars role and connection to the Chantry, and Lambert's crap would not have helped much. That said, I don't think it's made entirely clear that he consulted them. (I have not read the book and am entirely prepared to be corrected if Xilizhra can do so.)

 

 

Starting to reconsider a role is a hell of a long way away from Rawr! we are going to go our own way and actively support a potential war.  There was zero debate at that vote and really little logical thought, it was a 'with us or against us!' and the guy speaking for a large number of historically moderate mages was just about the last person qualified to do so considering his past history.

[Xilizhra]

You have it ass backwards with your salem witchcraft bit.  Removing the circles, templars and chantry from the equation is going to give you the salem witch trials.  Any one showing magic from any age and the local village will have their own little witch trial.  Also the chantry and templar efforts have not been stopped at all by nobles etc.  Isolde and connor for example, they were going to be subject to the same trip to the circle as the rest.

So if mundanes are going to be so viciously murderous, why aren't they the ones being locked up?

 

 

Starting to reconsider a role is a hell of a long way away from Rawr! we are going to go our own way and actively support a potential war.  There was zero debate at that vote and really little logical thought, it was a 'with us or against us!' and the guy speaking for a large number of historically moderate mages was just about the last person qualified to do so considering his past history.

They chose him as their leader.

[Kierro Ren]

My Warden would agree some what with her, as he was pro-circle, anti-templars, and anti-chantry. Hawke would be against her. My Tal-vashoth... He's not sure, he just wants to live life, kill demons and get paid for it, and bed Bull.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

So if mundanes are going to be so viciously murderous, why aren't they the ones being locked up?

... Logistics?

[Xilizhra]

... Logistics?

I know. But if mundanes are people so horrible, a magocracy starts to look rather good...

[herkles]

I know. But if mundanes are people so horrible, a magocracy starts to look rather good...

Go help and support the Tevinter armies in conquering the world...er thedas. 

[Asdrubael Vect]

You have it ass backwards with your salem witchcraft bit.  Removing the circles, templars and chantry from the equation is going to give you the salem witch trials.  Any one showing magic from any age and the local village will have their own little witch trial.  Also the chantry and templar efforts have not been stopped at all by nobles etc.  Isolde and connor for example, they were going to be subject to the same trip to the circle as the rest.

the "salem witch trials" is propoganded by the Orlais Chantry and they are the source of it...some is even killing their own childres because of the propoganda of Orlais Chantry and to prevent problems with Tempalrs who can destroy entire villiage with their hunt for 1 apostage mage

 

and the only places there mages hunted is Orlais, some parts of free marshes and some was in ferelden before 5 blight..after 5 blight templars of orlais chantry was exiled from ferelden as loghain wanted before

 

..Tevinter,Anderfels,Nevarra,Rivain,some parts of free marshes are not have Orlais Chantry zealots without braines..wild territories have a dozens of "heretics" and "barbarians" tribes who was ruled by mages for thousands of years

[lil yonce]

... Logistics?

We can cut down on population, I think - like mages in the old circle, they wouldn't be allowed to have children or freely marry. The templars can safeguard them in massive towers and mages can live on the outside.

[Ryriena]

the salem witch trials is propoganded by the Orlais Chantry and they are the source of it...some is even killing their own childres because of the propoganda of Orlais Chantry and to prevent problems with Tempalrs who can destroy entire villiage with their hunt for 1 apostage mage

and the only places there mages hunted is Orlais, some parts of free marshes and some was in ferelden before 5 blight..after 5 blight templars of orlais chantry was exiled from ferelden as loghain wanted before

..Tevinter,Anderfels,Nevarra,Rivain,some parts of free marshes are not have Orlais Chantry zealots without braines..wild territories have a dozens of "heretics" and "barbarians" tribes who was ruled by mages for thousands of years

You do know that the Salem witch trails are of trails that happened in the real world right?

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  We do lock up people who hear voices and who may, at any moment, turn into someone else and go on a murderous rampage.  

 

And the mages weren't locked up before Anders - and they certainly weren't oppressed any more than anyone else.  

 

Mundanes have to deal with kings and soldiers.... mages have to deal with Templars... boohoo.  

 

In fact - mundanes aren't allowed to educate themselves because, who would tend the fields?  Mages are allowed to study the most violent destructive magic on a whim.

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  We do lock up people who hear voices and who may, at any moment, turn into someone else and go on a murderous rampage.  

 

And the mages weren't locked up before Anders - and they certainly weren't oppressed any more than anyone else.  

 

Mundanes have to deal with kings and soldiers.... mages have to deal with Templars... boohoo.  

 

In fact - mundanes aren't allowed to educate themselves because, who would tend the fields?  Mages are allowed to study the most violent destructive magic on a whim.

And I don't like any of Thedas' states either, which is why I don't support nationalized Circles, but we're not having widespread revolts against the states, which is why I'm not talking about them. I'd be totally behind revolutions across the continent for greater equality, but we have to play the hand we're dealt, which is that only the mages have done so thus far.

 

That said, I'll need a citation on mundanes being banned from educating themselves; I'm almost positive that's incorrect, especially since peasant farmers are hardly everyone in Thedas.

[Asdrubael Vect]

You do know that the Salem witch trails are of trails that happened in the real world right?

i was talking about that thedas because of the orlais Chantry propoganda have the same "salem witch trials" their propoganda and tempalrs work do this stuff happens..if Orlais Chantry with templars will be destroyed it would be gone

[TheTurtle]

i was talking about that thedas because of the orlais Chantry propoganda have the same "salem witch trials" their propoganda and tempalrs work do this stuff happens..if Orlais Chantry with templars will be destroyed it would be gone

No.

[herkles]

here is what the wiki says on education. Commoners are allowed to educate, that said many are not educated. 

 

 

Chantry

The education provided to those of the Chantry appears on par with that of nobles. Templar recruits are literate and are taught history[1] in addition to their martial training and religious education. Members of the Chantry, by dint of their responsibilities, are naturally literate and well-read, in the Chant of Light if nothing else.

 

Local Chantries may also provide some instruction to their followers and allow access to their texts.

 

Chantry members may also pursue scholarship. The most well-known Chantry scholar is Brother Ferdinand Genitivi, lecturer and author of numerous texts and travelogues. Other scholars search for ancient artifacts and scrolls, such as Sister Justine, curator of the Denerim chantry. Justine is also versed in decoding ciphers and encrypted text.

 

Circle of Magi

The education of a mage is as extensive as that of a noble, if not more so. Beyond being taught to control their magic, a mage learns of the various schools of magic as well as languages, reading, writing, scrying, etc. A mage's training consists of extensive study of arcane lore. As any Circle of Magi is essentially a war college and standing army, much of a mage's training is also battle magic.

 

Much like the Chantry, the Circle of Magi encourages scholarship and publishes the completed research. Examples of this are the botanical writings of Ines and the spirit research of Rhys. Through their education and scholarship mages are considered some of the most educated members of society and as such may sometimes function as advisers in royal courts.

 

Circles of Magi have massive libraries and are typically the greatest repositories of knowledge in any country, though access is naturally limited.

 

Commoners

Commoners appear to receive little formal education in most countries in Thedas and many may be illiterate. City elves receive even less education than human commoners. As such dwarven runes may be used in place of writing in some cases. In other instances tally marks may be used to delineate locations or distances.

 

However, in sharp contrast, those who work as servants in noble estates appear to receive extensive education, at least sufficient to perform their tasks.

 

Fereldan nobility

Among the Fereldan nobility an education is typically provided by a learned tutor, such as Aldous in the Human Noble Origin. Noble Andrastian families may often have a Chantry Mother as a member of the household to attend to the religious education of the young. Examples of Mothers attached to noble households are Mother Mallol and Mother Ailis of the Cousland and Theirin families respectively.

 

A major facet of noble education appears to be history, as Aldous drills both the Human Noble and young squires in the household on family history. Reading and writing are naturally part of this education. A noble education does not necessarily make one a strong scholar, however, as even King Maric is by his own admission a poor reader. Martial training is also a component of the education of nobility as nobles are expected by their commoners to defend them and their territories.

 

Noble education may also include such things as dance and song, as Leliana learned in Lady Cecilie's household.

 

Noble households may also boast libraries, as Castle Cousland does.

 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  I don't believe it'll happen - but if the mages succeed in their emancipation - you really think what comes next is going to be free of oppression and corruption?  Better to be oppressed by mages than mundanes I suppose?

 

@herkles:  My point is... the commoners don't have all their basic needs tended to unlike the mages who have giant banquet halls filled with food. A lot harder to self-educate when you're surviving - as the mages have chosen to find out for themselves evidently.

 

If the mages don't suffer greatly for this - by exposure to survival - I will be very disappointed (not to see mages suffer - but because I'd find it painfully unrealistic)

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  I don't believe it'll happen - but if the mages succeed in their emancipation - you really think what comes next is going to be free of oppression and corruption?  Better to be oppressed by mages than mundanes I suppose?

Ironically, Petrice has the best quote regarding this kind of thing: "We do what we can to step toward what is right. That must be enough."