Well Wynne is gone now but she did rebel in the end. As did her son.
Wynne didn't rebel because of any mistreatment. She rebelled in an attempt to save her son from the punishment that befit his crimes. And even as she did so, didn't decry said punishment as evil, immoral, or wrong.
@Sports72Xtrm: She rebelled because a fellow mage framed her son for murder by killing a recently Un-Tranquilized mage.
I'm confused.. with all this mage on mage crime... do we hate mages now for the plight of the mages?
I know my Mage Inquisitor Main will as he agrees with everything Vivienne has said so far.
Wynne didn't rebel because of any mistreatment. She rebelled in an attempt to save her son from the punishment that befit his crimes. And even as she did so, didn't decry said punishment as evil, immoral, or wrong.
Yet you don't find that hypocritical? That because Wynne fights the templars who by divine right according to you is allowed to kill and punish any mage they deem a threat but Anders' assault was justified? Ok buddy... 
You can't have it both ways.
FTFY
Yes you did.
@Riversdalewhiteflash: Are you equally concerned about the "plight of the peasant"?
Insofar as I get the power to do anything about it, yes.
question are the mages going to help fight for the city elves to be equal, help free the qunari mages, help make the casteless dwarves free, abolish serfdom across the land?
after all wouldn't it be hippocrical for the circle mages not to fight the tevinter and try to free their slaves? after all "FREEDOM!" they are fighting for freedom, so they should also help overthrow the tevinter and bring freedom to the slaves.
AND
what about the qunari mages? they are chained and shackled far worse then they are treated. as a fellow mage, shouldn't they help them get freedom and fight for them, while fighting the tevinter to free the slaves.
AND
What of the city elves? are they not prisoners in the allianages? they have almost no rights, and as we see by the city elf origin, they too often have to deal with rape happy nobles. So while fighting the qun to liberate the mages, the tevinter imperium to free the slaves, they also need to fight most of thedas to liberate the city elves.
AND FINALLY
The casteless dwarves have no rights either, like the city elves they are prisoners. subjected to one section of orzammar and with no rights. So while fighting the tevinter to free the slaves, the qun to free the mages, most of thedas to liberate the city elves, they should also add the castless dwarves.
After all isn't it a bit hippocrical if the mages only want freedom for themselves, but don't care about the freedoms of others?
this is all a bit tongue in cheek btw
@Sports72Xtrm: So - you read a story about mages that were killed and you think they're all just innocent.
Let me present to you:
- Wynne: Allowed to walk freely.- Finn: Allowed to walk freely.
- Ines: Allowed to walk freely.
- Vivienne: Very likely allowed to walk freely.
If you say: "There are Templars who totally abuse their powers." We'll be in agreement. If you say: "The Chantry's hold over the mages has become abusive." We'll be in total agreement.
But the term "abuse" doesn't always mean the harshest treatment possible... abusing a friendship doesn't mean you're beating your friend, or locking him in a basement, it means you're taking advantage of privilege.
@Riversdalewhiteflash: Are you equally concerned about the "plight of the peasant"? Because I'm sure these kind of cruel abuses happen all the time to commoners throughout Thedas.
My point is that the mages aren't suffering some vast conspiracy of abuses while mundanes are dancing round the maypole.
They're allowed to walk freely so long as they're fighting the blight (wynne), helping the Grey Wardens research something like Eluvians (Finn), or is the orlesian empress' hand picked dictator of the mages (Vivienne). Gaining privileges so long as you provide a rare service in return doesn't seem just.
question are the mages going to help fight for the city elves to be equal, help free the qunari mages, help make the casteless dwarves free, abolish serfdom across the land?
after all wouldn't it be hippocrical for the circle mages not to fight the tevinter and try to free their slaves? after all "FREEDOM!" they are fighting for freedom, so they should also help overthrow the tevinter and bring freedom to the slaves.
AND
what about the qunari mages? they are chained and shackled far worse then they are treated. as a fellow mage, shouldn't they help them get freedom and fight for them, while fighting the tevinter to free the slaves.
AND
What of the city elves? are they not prisoners in the allianages? they have almost no rights, and as we see by the city elf origin, they too often have to deal with rape happy nobles. So while fighting the qun to liberate the mages, the tevinter imperium to free the slaves, they also need to fight most of thedas to liberate the city elves.
AND FINALLY
The casteless dwarves have no rights either, like the city elves they are prisoners. subjected to one section of orzammar and with no rights. So while fighting the tevinter to free the slaves, the qun to free the mages, most of thedas to liberate the city elves, they should also add the castless dwarves.
After all isn't it a bit hippocrical if the mages only want freedom for themselves, but don't care about the freedoms of others?
this is all a bit tongue in cheek btw
All depends on how the player plays the inquisitor. A Vashoth inquisitor could fight against qunari oppression and free any sarbaaras provided they want to be free. Qunari indoctrination is hard to change. Ferelden can grant the Dalish elves their own lands in the hinterlands. The inquisitor may even help Briala and the City elves. Dwarves that are castless are granted more rights if Bhelen is declared king. The progress of thedas society is dependent on the player.
@Sports72Xtrm: Rhys went to Tevinter with his teacher. He does say that anything but the "shortest of jaunts" was unprecedented - but that means leaving the Tower for short periods of time were not "unprecedented".
I know you'll still think this horrible - I do not.
As a mage player in DA - I do not believe mages should have free reign.
NOTE: VERY few would be free to go where they wished. Peasants in agrarian societies rarely traveled out of their town.
@Sports72Xtrm: Rhys went to Tevinter with his teacher. He does say that anything but the "shortest of jaunts" was unprecedented - but that means leaving the Tower for short periods of time were not "unprecedented".
I know you'll still think this horrible - I do not.
As a mage player in DA - I do not believe mages should have free reign.
NOTE: VERY few would be free to go where they wished. Peasants in agrarian societies rarely traveled out of their town.
Have you ever been in jail? Do you think you'd enjoy it there? I mean you have your cell, meals three times a day, you can be friends with your correction officer and cell mate. People think that mages can choose their lifestyle. You think your mage would be Vivienne, or would you be transferred to Kirkwall because they need more "talent"?
@Sports72Xtrm: Nope, I'd study magic (because I'm a mage and any time spent whining about not being able to drink at the nearest pub is time I'm not learning magic) - Healing and Spirit (focus on Anti-Magic) - apply for dispensation as a Knight Enchanter.
If I were subject to "abuses" I'd defend myself - give grievance to the Knight Commander - likely be ignored (as any peasant might if a knight abused them) - defend myself - and potentially die doing so.
But none of that would make me believe that terrorist bombings and hackneyed rebellions are answers to the mages problems.
Well agree to disagree. As the Arishok said, "sometimes it is necessary."
From what I can see, Vivienne is one of the most elite members of Orlesian nobility, and she has a lot of power and respect. Most mages aren't even seen as human (or elven) by the average person. Mages have very few freedoms, generally no rights, and are treated badly by most. I think she's under some illusion that all mages have it as good as the mages in her own Circle, but what we've seen from the Kirkwall Circle, that is obviously not true. Also, it's been stated that the mage Inquisitor flees with other mages to the big meeting at the beginning because a fanatic tries to assassinate him/her. That does not say to me that the rebelling mages are overreacting and being childish. That tells me that mages are fighting for their lives, even those who are still in Circles.
She's a mage, that means she can't have noble titles. Even someone born in the most noble family is stripped of his or her titles and heritage when they're found to be magical. She seems to have power and influence, but the only way she could have achieved those is the way Hawke did: Lots and lots of gruelling effort.
Vivienne spent all that time kissing Celene's ass and now she is neither the First enchanter nor Celene's magical advisor. She was replaced by Morrigan. Just goes to show how mages' lives are expendable in more ways than one. How is it that people think she has the mages' best interests at heart when all she's done is garner power for herself? First enchanters are supposed to be picked by the mages but Vivienne's rise in the Circle is by bowing to the mundanes every whim and they reward her by being the magi's hand picked dictator of the Circle mages. And I doubt she'd be any kind of advocate to those under her care.
Source for all of that?
But the lack of source aside, people aren't saying Vivienne is the One True Road to Mage Utopia, people are saying that Vivienne is one of the few mages that actually has some bloody perspective and realises the consequences that come with rebelling and that those consequences affect all mages. Not just those fighting.
Yeah I remember when the templars attempted to kill him as an apostate both before and after he became a grey warden. Real fun game that all mages have to play.
After his seventh escape attempts, yes. Even lenient templars have their limits.
Yeah how dare people disliked being imprisoned and hunted for the rest of their lives. Malcolm Hawke, Jowan, Anders; he wasn't the first, certainly won't be the last.
And the goalpost moves again. Point remains, for all his complaints Anders lived in an extremely lenient circle.
Which also shows that not all circles are as bad as Kirkwall's into the bargain.
http://dragonage.wik...state's_Courage
http://dragonage.wik...y:_Cold-Blooded
http://dragonage.wik...ficarum_Regrets
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Reimas (check out her background)
I'm sure all this mage urest appeared out of thin air? I wonder if people would still be uncompassionate if it was a sister, or an offspring, or spouse who was a mage or if mages and mundanes are just naturally estranged. If there is a Maker in that world, well... his creations are full of dysfunction.
I should start make a list of all the blood mages and abominations mentioned and encountered in dragon age. I'm pretty sure that list will end up bigger than the total number of templars we've encountered over all dragon age games.
@Sports72Xtrm: She rebelled because a fellow mage framed her son for murder by killing a recently Un-Tranquilized mage.
I'm confused.. with all this mage on mage crime... do we hate mages now for the plight of the mages?
I know my Mage Inquisitor Main will as he agrees with everything Vivienne has said so far.
Nah, we still consider the plight of mages to be a valid issue. We just agree with Vivienne that the decision to try and quit the system from one day to another was a short-sighted one that could go no other way but wrong.
Wow, everyone seemed to have gotten an early copy of Inquisition to be this knowledgeable about the characters in it.
Where is mine?
Wow, everyone seemed to have gotten an early copy of Inquisition to be this knowledgeable about the characters in it.
Where is mine?
in their heads
After his seventh escape attempts, yes. Even lenient templars have their limits.
It's not even the escape attempts, I think. Rylock seems to honestly believe that Anders killed the Templars whose corpses we find him surrounded by, and that's what she confronts him with when she attempts to take him into custody in order to execute him.
Wow, everyone seemed to have gotten an early copy of Inquisition to be this knowledgeable about the characters in it.
Where is mine?
In here:
Yet you don't find that hypocritical? That because Wynne fights the templars who by divine right according to you is allowed to kill and punish any mage they deem a threat but Anders' assault was justified? Ok buddy...
I fail to see the hypocrisy. Anders isn't justified in his actions, and I have always said as such.
Wow, everyone seemed to have gotten an early copy of Inquisition to be this knowledgeable about the characters in it.
Where is mine?
I want it too damnit! 21 more days is too long!
Last month I wasn't too happy about it, I was still worried about my PC being able to play it and I didn't feel confident I could handle the new combat system. Now that I have my new video card, and have seen a little of the combat/companions, I want to play it now.
I still have some concerns but hopefully these will iron out as I get the hang of the game.
Well, he is an escaped prisoner... At least during attempts 2 through 8... His first jaunt leaving the Circle was more of an illegal border crossing. He didn't have a visa(permission to leave), and so he was taken back to the Circle.
Perhaps if Anders had actually been mistreated at some point, I might be more accepting of his unbelievably selfish and stupid behavior.
He was locked in solitary confinement for a year, something that more and more people are coming to accept as cruel and unusual punishment.
Last month I wasn't too happy about it, I was still worried about my PC being able to play it and I didn't feel confident I could handle the new combat system. Now that I have my new video card, and have seen a little of the combat/companions, I want to play it now.
I still have some concerns but hopefully these will iron out as I get the hang of the game.
I know that feel. My new card is just waiting. Just waiting to max DA out in all it's beauty 
And same I'm hoping those end up minor quibbles in a otherwise great experience.
Hedge mage seems to be a catch all term for Mages that use magic in ways the circle finds strange, it does not necessarily mean a Mage does not or cannot use circle spells
Actually the wiki says that a hedge mage can't learn traditional magic.
Indeed. Corroborated by Gaider's interview with Lady Insanity. Hedge mages cannot learn traditional magic at all.
Indeed. Corroborated by Gaider's interview with Lady Insanity. Hedge mages cannot learn traditional magic at all.
can you link to that interview?
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