1751 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

can you link to that interview?

http://www.ladyinsan...terview-gaymerx

[herkles]

http://www.ladyinsan...terview-gaymerx

thanks that was enjoyable

[Heimdall]

Actually the wiki says that a hedge mage can't learn traditional magic.

It also describes shapeshifting as a form of hedge magic, but that doesn't stop Morrigan from using more traditional forms.

[Vilegrim]

Didn't the devs commented before that Vivienne despised Morrigan when they met at the court? I actually think it's possible. While Morrigan is not the kind to go out of her way to help the mages, I think she would approve of this rebellion.

Yet more compelling evidence the Viv is wrong ;p

[Uccio]

 

 

Nevermind it seems.

[Yinello]

Yet more compelling evidence the Viv is wrong ;p

?? What evidence?

[Vilegrim]

?? What evidence?

Hating Morrigan.

[Yinello]

Hating Morrigan.

 

How does hating Morrigan make Vivienne's viewpoint/opinion wrong? 

[Shahadem]

Hedge mages=very weak connection to the Fade.

 

They are so weak they fly under the radar.

[Yinello]

Also the logic of some people astound me:

 

> All Circle Mages suffer terribly (evidence heavily needed outside of Kirkwall)

 

> Vivienne, a Circle Mage, must have never suffered

 

???????????

[Shahadem]

@Sports72Xtrm:  So - you read a story about mages that were killed and you think they're all just innocent. 

 

Let me present to you:

- Wynne:  Allowed to walk freely.

- Finn: Allowed to walk freely.

- Ines:  Allowed to walk freely.

- Vivienne:  Very likely allowed to walk freely.

 

If you say:  "There are Templars who totally abuse their powers."  We'll be in agreement.  If you say: "The Chantry's hold over the mages has become abusive."  We'll be in total agreement. 

 

But the term "abuse" doesn't always mean the harshest treatment possible... abusing a friendship doesn't mean you're beating your friend, or locking him in a basement, it means you're taking advantage of privilege.

 

@Riversdalewhiteflash:  Are you equally concerned about the "plight of the peasant"?  Because I'm sure these kind of cruel abuses happen all the time to commoners throughout Thedas.

 

My point is that the mages aren't suffering some vast conspiracy of abuses while mundanes are dancing round the maypole.

 

They were not allowed to walk freely. They were given leave to take trips owing to the amount of obedience they had demonstrated over the years. In a way they are the prisoners who succumbed to Stockholm syndrome.

 

Simply having one's natural freedom taken away out of fear is already an enormous abuse. That alone would justify the use of force when resisting. The fact that there are cases of physical abuse, mental abuse and sexual abuse as well adds further justification.

[Shahadem]

See, that excuse doesn't fly for me. If you're going to define a character as doing magic differently from the others then you need to build a separate set of gameplay mechanics that enforce those rules within the game to support the lore. A wizard and a sorcerer can learn similar (sometimes the same) spells in D&D, but the way they cast magic is different and the rules they work under in the game are different. Forgetting all the other extra magic classes, roll up a wizard or a sorcerer in Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights, or Neverwinter Nights II and you'll get a different play experience. Tell me sorcerers and wizards are different in D&D and I will believe you because the gameplay mechanics support those differences.

 

 

 

But this isn't DnD. Magic in Dragon Age works in one specific way. You overlay the Fade on the real world and then manipulate the world via manipulating the Fade. That's how all DA magic works.

 

In DnD, you have the most stupid, impossible, nonsensical, unrealistic crap I have ever seen. Magic works in different ways because they never really bothered to try figuring out how magic actually works. In fact, there are a large number of contradictions in DnD in trying to explain how magic works. In that unshakey world where the authors didn't try to sit down and work out the mechanics, in only makes sense you'd have multiple interpretations, especially because some of the interpretations, ie the ones that wizards/mages are supposed to use, make absolutely no sense.

 

I mean take Raistlin. He was supposed to be this super powerful mage with all this magic coursing through him. But if magic is nothing more than memorizing spells, then he can't possibly be any more powerful than any other mage who memorizes those same spells. But he clearly is more powerful, so magic has to work in a different way than the way it is explained. That is to say, magic even in DnD has nothing to do with memorizing spells and everything to do with manipulating energy. In fact, this is what the authors of one of the books focused on Raistlin's story was trying to get at. In that set of stories, it was made very clear that magic wasn't a function of simply memorizing and speaking some words, rather it was entirely a function of manipulating magical energy. The incantations were simply an overly convoluted way of learning to manipulate energy in that way. That also means that mages/wizards and sorcerers actually cast spells in the same exact manner, they simply believe they do it differently.

[efd731]

Nevermind it seems.

thats showing up blank, what did i say?

[Keroko]

They were not allowed to walk freely. They were given leave to take trips owing to the amount of obedience they had demonstrated over the years. In a way they are the prisoners who succumbed to Stockholm syndrome.

 

Simply having one's natural freedom taken away out of fear is already an enormous abuse. That alone would justify the use of force when resisting. The fact that there are cases of physical abuse, mental abuse and sexual abuse as well adds further justification.

 

It's almost as if when a mage shows they are capable of going out without turning into an abomination and burn down entire villages in a fit because someone stepped on their toe, they're allowed more freedom.

 

Shocking.

 

Let's make an analogy here. You know about the current ebola crisis? Patients suspected of being infected are isolated -against their will if need be- to prevent other people coming to harm until it's proven they can't infect anyone else.

 

Same thing for mages in the more lenient circles (AKA almost any circle not Kirkwall). An untrained mage is a danger to all (just look to the Butcher of Redcliffe for proof of that) so they get isolated in a secure environment until they have shown they can go out without harming those around them.

 

Well, at least until Anders upped the paranoia towards mages a thousandfold.

[Vilegrim]

It's almost as if when a mage shows they are capable of going out without turning into an abomination and burn down entire villages in a fit because someone stepped on their toe, they're allowed more freedom.

 

Shocking.

 

Let's make an analogy here. You know about the current ebola crisis? Patients suspected of being infected are isolated -against their will if need be- to prevent other people coming to harm until it's proven they can't infect anyone else.

 

Same thing for mages in the more lenient circles (AKA almost any circle not Kirkwall). An untrained mage is a danger to all (just look to the Butcher of Redcliffe for proof of that) so they get isolated in a secure environment until they have shown they can go out without harming those around them.

 

Well, at least until Anders upped the paranoia towards mages a thousandfold.

 

 

except we wheren't shown that 'more freedom' unless I missed something, every mage outside the tower in DA:O was either with the army, or an apostate, and Wynn who had demonstrated her ability to control magic had her child stolen from her, that does not sound like 'more freedom'

[The Elder King]

except we wheren't shown that 'more freedom' unless I missed something, every mage outside the tower in DA:O was either with the army, or an apostate, and Wynn who had demonstrated her ability to control magic had her child stolen from her, that does not sound like 'more freedom'

Wynne's friend in DAA was alone Outside, with no Mage supervision.

[Keroko]

except we wheren't shown that 'more freedom' unless I missed something, every mage outside the tower in DA:O was either with the army, or an apostate, and Wynn who had demonstrated her ability to control magic had her child stolen from her, that does not sound like 'more freedom'

 

Wynne, Finn, Ines, Vivienne, the group of mages that you encounter on the road if you saved the Circle, the mages that go to Redcliffe to save Connor, and that's just from the top of my head.

[Vilegrim]

How does hating Morrigan make Vivienne's viewpoint/opinion wrong? 

 

 

it doesn't really hence the

[Vilegrim]

Wynne, Finn, Ines, Vivienne, the group of mages that you encounter on the road if you saved the Circle, the mages that go to Redcliffe to save Connor, and that's just from the top of my head.

 

All on missions all on tasks that aid the Chantry, not free to leave, to have families, to have actual lives, just trusted enough to be sent out to earn their captors money and power.

[Yinello]

it doesn't really hence the

 

Ooooooooooh I missed that, sorry!

[The Elder King]

All on missions all on tasks that aid the Chantry, not free to leave, to have families, to have actual lives, just trusted enough to be sent out to earn their captors money and power.

The money mages get are for the circle, not the templars or the Chantry.
And Ines wasn't in any mission to aid The Chantry, and most of the examples shown were aiding you, not the Chantry.

[sylvanaerie]

Wilfred (is that his name?) the mage in Honnleath who had Shale before she squished him, had a family (son and wife) and a life outside the Circle.  He wasn't an apostate, he was known to be living outside the circle.  Now, this mage lived outside the circle, was doing research with a desire demon, had several other spirits as 'guardians' as traps in his laboratory, and made frequent forays into areas to get more obscure errata (how he came across Shale in the first place).  A funny note, the merchant who sends you on the quest to get Shale and the son of the wizard who wants you to find his daughter were both voiced by Greg Ellis, who does Cullen.

 

Lore in Thedas is an iffy thing at best.  Game says one thing, Gaider comes here and says something else and quite frequently the game itself contradicts itself.  It is a well known and oft quoted stanza in the Chant of Light that 'magic is to serve man, never to rule over him'.  Yet, in Awakenings, the WC (who may be a mage herself) becomes the Arlessa of Amaranthine.  Even the argument of "She's the Hero of Ferelden" doesn't wash because that hero is also a grey warden, and, while not illegal, traditionally they don't hold titles anymore than mages do.

[Ianamus]

All on missions all on tasks that aid the Chantry, not free to leave, to have families, to have actual lives, just trusted enough to be sent out to earn their captors money and power.

 

Mages can't have mundane lives because they are not mundane. It's as simple as that.

[DarthLaxian]

I know that feel. My new card is just waiting. Just waiting to max DA out in all it's beauty

 

And same I'm hoping those end up minor quibbles in a otherwise great experience.

 

Might not have new card - bit with mine only a year old (GTX 770) and being able to run BF4 on full details (without frame-drops even on large multiplayer maps with 64 players on them), I don't see any problem...so yeah, I would like to have it now, too (damned - need to put my pre-order into amazon...want to get it directly on release day and will probably stay home from (trade-)school on that day (wouldn't be able to concentrate anyway - with being giddy and full of anticipation

 

greetings LAX

ps: yes, solitary is CRUEL (even if you give them books (hell even music, TV etc.) and good food, it is still damaging to a person IMHO)

pps: Would like to question Gaider further on the subject - like there being no chance at all (even if you are really patient with such a hedge-mage and start small (like when teaching mage children)...or if it's just really hard (note: wouldn't Solas count as a hedge-mage? - because it seems he's had formal education - but not at a circle (unless he fled from one?)...or Morrigan (yeah, Flemeth is a special case and probably a very good teacher), as she is able to learn circle-spells...)) - hard as in trying to learn to write with your non-dominant hand or trying to unlearn a bad habbit you have (like in my case scratching my nose when I am nervous ^^)

[Xilizhra]

It's almost as if when a mage shows they are capable of going out without turning into an abomination and burn down entire villages in a fit because someone stepped on their toe, they're allowed more freedom.

 

Shocking.

 

Let's make an analogy here. You know about the current ebola crisis? Patients suspected of being infected are isolated -against their will if need be- to prevent other people coming to harm until it's proven they can't infect anyone else.

 

Same thing for mages in the more lenient circles (AKA almost any circle not Kirkwall). An untrained mage is a danger to all (just look to the Butcher of Redcliffe for proof of that) so they get isolated in a secure environment until they have shown they can go out without harming those around them.

 

Well, at least until Anders upped the paranoia towards mages a thousandfold.

The White Spire is shown to be nearly as harsh as Kirkwall. I think Ferelden was just as much an exception... and even then, it wasn't good.