1751 réponses à ce sujet

[frankf43]

How can we promise the mages anything, we aren't going to take control of Fereldan or Orlais (I assume) so we cannot give them land and Skyhold is going to get very crowded if we let all the mages move in. 

 

We are going to have to broker some some of peace deal between the chantry, mages and templars to end the conflict and it does makes sense we have to build a power base to do that..  

And we need power to do that. We have to go the the Chantry and the governments in a position of power or they will just ignore us.

[earl of the north]

It's just that he is mentioned as advising the War Council before we are introduced to them.

 

So we must met him at the start of the game then, thats got me wondering about the first companions which seem to be

Spoiler

Cassandra, Solas and Varric

do we meet them before we join the inquisition.

[frankf43]

I think Solas found The Inquisition shortly after The Breach event.

Seems that way to me too.

[LD Little Dragon]

You turn off the sound? Really? Because whether or not that's what happened here, I can tell you there are cases where you're going to miss some meaning if you don't listen to tones of voice.

Then that's a flaw in the game - there's a reason for subtitles.  Not everyone has perfect hearing. 

 

If tone changes the meaning of the text than the tone should be reflected in the subtitles.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Then that's a flaw in the game - there's a reason for subtitles.  Not everyone has perfect hearing. 

 

If tone changes the meaning of the text than the tone should be reflected in the subtitles.

That's true, I suppose. But if you do have perfect hearing (and the post as I understood it didn't necessarily indicate the poster did not), why not take advantage of it?

[AshenEndymion]

Then that's a flaw in the game - there's a reason for subtitles.  Not everyone has perfect hearing. 

 

If tone changes the meaning of the text than the tone should be reflected in the subtitles.

 

We don't know how tone reflects in the subtitles in DAI... Primarily because none of the videos showing anything in DAI, that have been released, have subtitles enabled...  Someone transcribed what Vivienne said, because they couldn't copy the subtitles and because some people don't want to watch the video(But more because some people don't want to watch the video).

[Shadow Fox]

Doesn't Cassandra have Templar training.....anyway my thought was none of those giving the Inquisitor their opinons were remotely experts on the fade or rifts, magic etc.  So while they might think its a good idea (or bad idea) the first mage they talk to might tell them they are totally wrong.

Most responsible mages would probably agree with Cullen.

[Xilizhra]

Most responsible mages would probably agree with Cullen.

About siding with the templars? I doubt it.

[efd731]

About siding with the templars? I doubt it.

Yeah, even the mages that weren't in favour of separating are going to be anti Templar. Probably something to do with the relentlessly hunting them down

[Hellion Rex]

Most responsible mages would probably agree with Cullen.

I disagree. I'm pro-Circle, but even I think Cullen is wrong in this regard.

[Hellion Rex]

Yeah, even the mages that weren't in favour of separating are going to be anti Templar. Probably something to do with the relentlessly hunting them down

I disagree. They could just as easily blame their own faction leaders for pushing for secession in the first place.

 

My own Human Mage will have issues both with sides. He won't be anti-Templar, that's for sure. He'll simply be anti-Idiocy.

[efd731]

I disagree. They could just as easily blame their own faction leaders for pushing for secession in the first place.

My own Human Mage will have issues both with sides. He won't be anti-Templar, that's for sure. He'll simply be anti-Idiocy.

I'm just saying that I can't imagine even the moderate mages wanting much to do with the Templar after being hunted the length and breadth of thedas

[herkles]

Something I wondered. Does the Divine have an order of guards and knights that are not templars? And relatedly, I wonder how a non-templar knightly order would fit into things. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Something I wondered. Does the Divine have an order of guards and knights that are not templars? And relatedly, I wonder how a non-templar knightly order would fit into things. 

Other than the Seekers, you mean? Because I think those two are it.

[Keroko]

And we need power to do that. We have to go the the Chantry and the governments in a position of power or they will just ignore us.

If we can get the mages on our side and we can somehow show the Chantry and the rest of the world that we are, for lack of a better term, "in control" of the mages, I think we have a major position to play off. The rest of the world is tired of this mage/templar war that is destroying their lands, they will be far more likely to support us and our plans if we have one of the parties on our side and willing to stop it.

[ianvillan]

And if he were 'trying to save a whole lot of hassle" why did Gregoir wait for word?  If he felt the Circle was a lost cause completely he'd have told the Warden to move along, forget the mages and mind his own business.  You want to lump all templars into some ridiculous stereotype of oppressive rapist/murderers when some of them can be reasonable.  The blood mages in the tower there killed a lot more mages during their rebellion than the Rite would have killed.

 

*Edit* When you encounter him, Gregoir is a man nearly overcome with despair "It is too painful to hope there are survivors."

 

Cullen protests, but Gregoir overrides him, accepting Irving's word that the Circle was saved, and goes about his business, after expressing his pleasure Irving made it out okay.

 

How did the blood mages in the tower kill more mages then the Right of Annulment, the Right of Annulment would of murdered every Man, Woman and Child in the Tower with no exception.

 

Gregoir did think the Tower was a lost cause because he called for the right of Annulment. He said as much to the Warden and told him not to enter the Tower because it was pointless.

 

Gregoir waits because he believes he needs reinforcements to enact the right of Annulment, a case that was proven wrong.

 

When you encounter Gregoir and he is overcome with emotion about their being no hope for survivors he did has not even checked to see if there are any, he even ignores the few in the next room that are preventing the Demons from escaping and the children that have to fight a Rage Demon on their own.

 

Gregoir accepts the Wardens word that Irvin was not possessed and the circle is safe. He had no choice to accept the word of the Warden who had just gone through the tower and defeated the Demons and saved the mages with less of a force then what Gregoir has available to him.

[Keroko]

Gregoir accepts the Wardens word that Irvin was not possessed and the circle is safe. He had no choice to accept the word of the Warden who had just gone through the tower and defeated the Demons and saved the mages with less of a force then what Gregoir has available to him.

Uhh, he had every choice to just go "No, I can't take the risk that one of you isn't a blood mage's thrall or unknowing demon host."

Remember Legacy? How Corypheus managed to escape death and his prison by body-jumping into another Warden? And nobody being any wiser? Who's to say one of the demons didn't leave a similar booby trap in one of the 'rescued' mages? Or hell, one of our party?

Things went well in the end, but Cullen had a very good point. Gregoir just accepting Irving's word that everything was okay was a very risky move to take.

[Xilizhra]

Uhh, he had every choice to just go "No, I can't take the risk that one of you isn't a blood mage's thrall or unknowing demon host."

Remember Legacy? How Corypheus managed to escape death and his prison by body-jumping into another Warden? And nobody being any wiser? Who's to say one of the demons didn't leave a similar booby trap in one of the 'rescued' mages? Or hell, one of our party?

Things went well in the end, but Cullen had a very good point. Gregoir just accepting Irving's word that everything was okay was a very risky move to take.

Well, Corypheus is not in any way, shape, or form a demon. Also, because demonic possession makes you either glow or catch fire, something we've seen literally every time we've seen possession in action.

[berrieh]

How did the blood mages in the tower kill more mages then the Right of Annulment, the Right of Annulment would of murdered every Man, Woman and Child in the Tower with no exception.

 

Gregoir did think the Tower was a lost cause because he called for the right of Annulment. He said as much to the Warden and told him not to enter the Tower because it was pointless.

 

Gregoir waits because he believes he needs reinforcements to enact the right of Annulment, a case that was proven wrong.

 

When you encounter Gregoir and he is overcome with emotion about their being no hope for survivors he did has not even checked to see if there are any, he even ignores the few in the next room that are preventing the Demons from escaping and the children that have to fight a Rage Demon on their own.

 

Gregoir accepts the Wardens word that Irvin was not possessed and the circle is safe. He had no choice to accept the word of the Warden who had just gone through the tower and defeated the Demons and saved the mages with less of a force then what Gregoir has available to him.

 

Most of the mages in the Circle at Ferelden were already dead (or abominations, which are as good as dead). The blood mages killed them by luring in demons. 

 

Gregoir is *afraid* (and rightly so). He's not wrong so much as he doesn't realize he has a 4-hero crazy-good party here that can actually clean the tower out in front of him; he probably needed reinforcements to deal with the situation. Without the Warden, he absolutely would have needed reinforcements to annul the Circle and he likely could not have stopped to chat and figure out who was or wasn't influenced by a demon. That's sad, but the annulment in Ferelden would have been a reasonable decision, considering the circumstances. I'm happy there was another option, but you can't exactly loose demons upon the world. 

 

Gregoir accepts the Warden's word but also - perhaps moreso - Irving's. Had Irving been there to tell him he was not possessed and neither were Wynne and the children, he may have let them out - he in fact says he will accept only the First Enchanter's word. This is because he knows the First Enchanter well and thinks he can assess whether he is a demon/abomination or not. He doesn't necessarily KNOW the other mages and thus doesn't know if they're controlled by blood magic or demons or whatnot. 

 

Gregoir is a good Templar. He is moderate, he likes the First Enchanter and works with him, and he doesn't even seek to punish the Circle for what the blood mages wrought. He seems genuinely saddened by what has happened and angry as much at himself for not catching it and stopping the needless death as anything. Not all Templars are Gregoir, and that is the problem, but painting Gregoir with the same brush as the abusive Templars because he had to make legitimately tough decisions is silly. 

 

Well, Corypheus is not in any way, shape, or form a demon. Also, because demonic possession makes you either glow or catch fire, something we've seen literally every time we've seen possession in action.

 

In lore, it is not suggested all abominations glow or catch fire. It is suggested they can live insidiously inside of you. In the game, this is represented by things like being able to let the demon inside Connor remain, dormant, if you choose.

[sylvanaerie]

How did the blood mages in the tower kill more mages then the Right of Annulment, the Right of Annulment would of murdered every Man, Woman and Child in the Tower with no exception.

 

Gregoir did think the Tower was a lost cause because he called for the right of Annulment. He said as much to the Warden and told him not to enter the Tower because it was pointless.

 

Gregoir waits because he believes he needs reinforcements to enact the right of Annulment, a case that was proven wrong.

 

When you encounter Gregoir and he is overcome with emotion about their being no hope for survivors he did has not even checked to see if there are any, he even ignores the few in the next room that are preventing the Demons from escaping and the children that have to fight a Rage Demon on their own.

 

Gregoir accepts the Wardens word that Irvin was not possessed and the circle is safe. He had no choice to accept the word of the Warden who had just gone through the tower and defeated the Demons and saved the mages with less of a force then what Gregoir has available to him.

 

Because the blood mages and their demons had already decimated all but 1 templar and a handful of mages with Wynne and that one guy in the wardrobe.

Now I get others probably hid--or simply were out doing other stuff like Ostagar and weren't in the tower--since we see some sitting around discussing the coming battles if you go away and come back later, but the matter is, most of the circle was wiped out by the rebellion, not the Rite of Annulment if you choose not to Annul the Circle.  Especially since you can have mages come help you in Redcliffe and there is at least one scene with a mentor and a couple of apprentices you help in one of the random encounters. The Rite would have only finished off what was left in the tower. 

 

Now its stupid in the cutscene at when mages are going to the battle of Denerim because it shows wave after wave of about a hundred or more mages, but I think it's more accurately represented in the number you can call to your aid (12).  I believe total number of survivors would more reasonably be expected to fall between that and maybe 50 or so.  

 

That is of course, only head canon on my part, but not unreasonable to think so.  Gregoir felt the Circle was lost, but still waited to get the permission Rite (like Meredith should have) instead of just tromping willy-nilly killing everyone inside.

[Xilizhra]

Because the blood mages and their demons had already decimated all but 1 templar and a handful of mages with Wynne and that one guy in the wardrobe.

Now I get others probably hid--or simply were out doing other stuff like Ostagar and weren't in the tower--since we see some sitting around discussing the coming battles if you go away and come back later, but the matter is, most of the circle was wiped out by the rebellion, not the Rite of Annulment if you choose not to Annul the Circle.  Especially since you can have mages come help you in Redcliffe and there is at least one scene with a mentor and a couple of apprentices you help in one of the random encounters. The Rite would have only finished off what was left in the tower. 

 

Now its stupid in the cutscene at when mages are going to the battle of Denerim because it shows wave after wave of about a hundred or more mages, but I think it's more accurately represented in the number you can call to your aid (12).  I believe total number of survivors would more reasonably be expected to fall between that and maybe 50 or so.  

 

That is of course, only head canon on my part, but not unreasonable to think so.  Gregoir felt the Circle was lost, but still waited to get the permission Rite (like Meredith should have) instead of just tromping willy-nilly killing everyone inside.

You can't just write that cutscene off as having not happened; this isn't DA2 with its weird framing device.

 

 

In lore, it is not suggested all abominations glow or catch fire. It is suggested they can live insidiously inside of you. In the game, this is represented by things like being able to let the demon inside Connor remain, dormant, if you choose.

I was referring to the moment of possession itself; with Connor, it happened without anyone else seeing.

 

Gregoir is a good Templar. He is moderate, he likes the First Enchanter and works with him, and he doesn't even seek to punish the Circle for what the blood mages wrought. He seems genuinely saddened by what has happened and angry as much at himself for not catching it and stopping the needless death as anything. Not all Templars are Gregoir, and that is the problem, but painting Gregoir with the same brush as the abusive Templars because he had to make legitimately tough decisions is silly. 

Greagoir is clearly abusive in the comics, and will still happily rape minds and commit summary executions.

[Keroko]

Well, Corypheus is not in any way, shape, or form a demon. Also, because demonic possession makes you either glow or catch fire, something we've seen literally every time we've seen possession in action.

 

Er, no, it can make you glow or catch fire. But we've seen plenty of abominations who look just fine.

 

That's kind of the big problem with abominations. Unless they choose to reveal themselves, they're pretty much undetectable.

[Xilizhra]

Er, no, it can make you glow or catch fire. But we've seen plenty of abominations who look just fine.

 

That's kind of the big problem with abominations. Unless they choose to reveal themselves, they're pretty much undetectable.

Again, this is the moment of possession. The only one we see getting possessed on your list is Olivia... who, as a matter of fact, does catch fire.

[berrieh]

You can't just write that cutscene off as having not happened; this isn't DA2 with its weird framing device.

 

I was referring to the moment of possession itself; with Connor, it happened without anyone else seeing.

 

Greagoir is clearly abusive in the comics, and will still happily rape minds and commit summary executions.

 

 I haven't read any comics with him in it? I have the bound book, but it doesn't have Gregoir in it. Which comics? I've read all the novels, but only the bound book comics (the Alistar/Varric/Isabella trio). 

 

I still don't think the lore suggests one need glow or catch fire to become a demon (it may happen in gameplay sometimes), but, at any rate, it could've easily happened to ANYONE without someone seeing, so I fail to see how your argument on the Connor thing changes your point. They don't remain glowy or firey so how would Gregoir be able to tell who was or wasn't possessed? Certain mages do have that ability and maybe Irving is one of them; hence why he trusts him. 

 

As to the cutscene with 100 mages, those could easily have been the ones alive and elsewhere (who would not have necessarily been anulled). There are not 100 mages alive in the Circle. You don't see them as you walk through, and if there were 100 mages (let's say every one I save in the tower represents 10 or something, then there were far more bodies too, as every one of those should be equally representative). The tower is a bloodbath and clearly more than half of the mages were already killed by the abominations, demons, blood mages, as well as many Templars. They killed more. 

[Xilizhra]

 I haven't read any comics with him in it? I have the bound book, but it doesn't have Gregoir in it. Which comics? I've read all the novels, but only the bound book comics (the Alistar/Varric/Isabella trio).

A really early one, wherein he physically abuses at least one pregnant woman.

 

 

I still don't think the lore suggests one need glow or catch fire, but it could've easily happened to ANYONE without someone seeing, so I fail to see how your argument on the Connor thing changes your point.

Well, it's certainly not Irving or any of the others in Uldred's room, as Uldred kept trying to forcibly possess them.

 

 

As to the cutscene with 100 mages, those could easily have been the ones alive and elsewhere (who would not have necessarily been anulled). There are not 100 mages alive in the Circle. You don't see them as you walk through, and if there were 100 mages (let's say every one I save in the tower represents 10 or something, then there were far more bodies too, as every one of those should be equally representative). The tower is a bloodbath and clearly more than half of the mages were already killed by the abominations, demons, blood mages, as well as many Templars. They killed more. 

Why would they be exiting the Circle tower, then? And where would they have come from to begin with? It isn't as though Ferelden has multiple Circles. Also, your claim that corpses must match representation of living people strikes me as extremely arbitrary.

 

In short, actual proof that the Annulment would have killed more people is utterly nil and contradicted by the one cutscene that covers it.