43 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

Basically it makes you a drooling simpleton.

[raging_monkey]

Just throwing it out there: tranquils have free will but dont use it cause they are super logical. If they act on their owb accord its only due their logic.

[Gervaise]

Tranquil have free will but have no emotions to drive them towards doing something.   Thus for the most part they do not act for themselves.     However, once given a goal, they can be relentless in pursuing it.    The danger is that lacking emotion, they also lack the imagination to predict and fear to concern them about the consequences of their actions.    This is basically what happened with the tranquil in Asunder; he thought placing a simple ward around him would protect other people from his experiment.

 

I thought I would come to this thread with a related topic.    In Masked Empire, Felassan is said to possess herbs that can prevent him from dreaming and wards that will do "a good job blocking him from the Fade" when the herbs failed.    This being the case, it would seem there are alternatives to the rite of tranquillity that can shield a mage from the Fade whilst leaving them in control of their mind.    I wonder if this will be raised in Inquisition.

 

Of course the other purpose of the rite is to punish/render harmless mages that are regarded as dangerous subversives, which the Chantry/Templars think is more merciful than just killing them.    The mages would suggest otherwise.     I have always felt that this was how the rite was originally developed and probably had its origins in Tevinter; leaving a rebel mage as an emotionless automaton is a far more scary example to present to the populace than simply executing them.

[Gairnulf]

Tranquil have free will but have no emotions to drive them towards doing something.   Thus for the most part they do not act for themselves.     However, once given a goal, they can be relentless in pursuing it.    The danger is that lacking emotion, they also lack the imagination to predict and fear to concern them about the consequences of their actions.    This is basically what happened with the tranquil in Asunder; he thought placing a simple ward around him would protect other people from his experiment.
 
I thought I would come to this thread with a related topic.    In Masked Empire, Felassan is said to possess herbs that can prevent him from dreaming and wards that will do "a good job blocking him from the Fade" when the herbs failed.    This being the case, it would seem there are alternatives to the rite of tranquillity that can shield a mage from the Fade whilst leaving them in control of their mind.    I wonder if this will be raised in Inquisition.
 
Of course the other purpose of the rite is to punish/render harmless mages that are regarded as dangerous subversives, which the Chantry/Templars think is more merciful than just killing them.    The mages would suggest otherwise.     I have always felt that this was how the rite was originally developed and probably had its origins in Tevinter; leaving a rebel mage as an emotionless automaton is a far more scary example to present to the populace than simply executing them.

1. Motivation for independent actions is not based solely on emotion.
2. The lack of imagination is not a direct consequence from the lack of emotion.

I think there are still a lot of unclear stuff around the Tranquil and the Rite of Tranquility, with no answers that can be sourced from the setting's authors.

"Who was the first Tranquil? How was tranquility discovered and who practiced it first?" - I think these are good questions to ask in a next interview with David Gaider.

[EmperorSahlertz]

To my knowledge Tranqulity isn't forced on mage apprentices (generally). They usually get a choice: Tranquility or the Harrowing, or Tranquility or death. Between the two last ones, in Tranquility you at least get to be useful as something else than fertilizer. I don't see the problem.

[Doominike]

To answer the OP, yes and no, because when Karl briefly gets his mind back his personality is intact, but while they're Tranquil their personalities are made completely blank

[Sports72Xtrm]

Basically it makes you a drooling simpleton.

This really should be what a Tranquil should be. Our ability to learn, to store information in our mind is related to our emotional response to stimuli and our  ability to make it meaningful. It also affects our motivation to do anything. Assuming a Tranquil has free will seems like a hard sell that the writers are trying to push on us to make Tranquility morally ambiguous.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

This really should be what a Tranquil should be. Our ability to learn, to store information in our mind is related to our emotional response to stimuli and our  ability to make it meaningful. It also affects our motivation to do anything. Assuming a Tranquil has free will seems like a hard sell that the writers are trying to push on us to make Tranquility morally ambiguous.

I have been wondering if Tranquility doesn't leave some emotions, for all that Gaider insists that it's all gone. At any rate, a minor plot point in Asunder makes clear that no matter how Tranquility would work in real life, in Thedas the Tranquil do have free will. (I also think I remember reading somewhere that the Tranquil's original mind survives in the Tranquil's body, and is suffering the whole time, but I haven't read Asunder so I wouldn't know. Any confirmation/denials on that?)

[Pestilence]

Reversing the right is also interesting. 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Tranquil

[inko1nsiderate]

What is barabaric is matter of opinion im pretty much sure orlesian have same opinion about ferelden should we burn it to the grund?

RoT is accepted by majority of peoples in thedas.

And every mage have choice either to die or become tranquil pretty much what they tell you in dao magi origins so no in few cases it is forced like corrupted templar like arlik but most mages have choice either die or tran.We know that many mages find tranq attractive and pick it up instead death.

 

No it isn't inhumane it is practical pretty much humans do that a lot and it isn't sadism because that would require individual that enjoy suffering of such mage and RoT isn't just individual practice but practice of whole organisation that does that for practical reasons not mention we don't know even if such mage suffer during RoT.

And as i said humans rarely do nice things. 

But without those nice traits like personality, they seem like they're also hyper un-creative.  Why I bring this up is that if you took someone who was shockingly brilliant and then made them Tranquil, do they maintain the ability to apply that intelligence in a similar sort of way (ie such as research)?  Then you're basically making a bet on which has a larger impact, this dangerous mage might make massive discoveries that will help Thedas far more than if they got possessed.  So now you're forced into having to consider two counter-factuals against each other.  This made isn't possessed yet, so it isn't fair to just consider what you lose if they do become possessed, you also have to consider what you lose if you perform the RoT on them.

I realize the wiki says that they are creative the way very logical scientists are creative, but that just leads me to believe the writers have never actually spent much time with people doing science where the ONLY thing that keeps you going on some long hard slog that is required of any research project (not just science research) is passion and the immense pleasure from discovering new things. 

Frankly, I'd personally consider that to be a pretty awful fate and would personally prefer death or even the way the Qunari deal with it rather than be subjected to the RoT.

[Shadow Quickpaw]

I'm calling bull**** on the RoT, because we now have a far more feasible alternative: The Litany of Adralla (look it up, sorry I can't link it. I've tried, my internet is wonky).

 

The LoA disrupts the attempted possession of a mage by demons or any other controlling source. As for willingly making deals, simple. No matter how weak-willed or otherwise magically stunted, having mages learn MORALITY and MENTAL DISCIPLINE should solve that problem right there. But no. Every mage is treated as a monster just waiting to happen.

 

This self-fulfilling prophecy HAS to stop.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I'm calling bull**** on the RoT, because we now have a far more feasible alternative: The Litany of Adralla (look it up, sorry I can't link it. I've tried, my internet is wonky).

 

The LoA disrupts the attempted possession of a mage by demons or any other controlling source. As for willingly making deals, simple. No matter how weak-willed [snip] having mages learn [snip] MENTAL DISCIPLINE should solve that problem right there.

The Litany is supposed to only work if the possession is not yet completed. As for teaching someone who is weak-willed mental discipline, you're going to need to explain that one to me.

[Shadow Quickpaw]

A weak will comes from the environment in which they are raised (i.e. a prison where you are told constantly how much the maker hates you and how you're a monster for even existing), and I don't care how "weak" or "powerful" someone's will is. Constant practice and training will shore up their defenses, and like I said. Give mages a clear sense of right and wrong from the get-go and they won't risk being tempted. At least, not NEARLY as much as they do under the Chantry or Imperium's current teaching methods.

 

The RoT is inflicted on mages before any possession begins as well. Knowing the LoA is enough to keep most outside influences OUTSIDE. Granted, the Litany was only developed recently. Also, as evidenced by Asunder, the Rite doesn't even have that supposed "100% guarantee" of no possible demon possession. Thus it is completely pointless.

 

Stop demonizing mages, and mages will stop demonizing themselves. And yes: That pun was ENTIRELY intentional.

[Eveangaline]

Seems more like a soul lobotomy. It's prooooobably some kind of blood magic, but templars already use that for the tracking so I don't think they care.

[Angry_Elcor]

Nah. I'm sure they talk that way because it's cool.

[Doominike]

You can't teach willpower, some people are weak minded and others are strong minded the same way people can be stupid or ugly or smart or pretty. Or stupid, ugly and weak minded or Smart, pretty and strong minded. 

[Lumix19]

I'm a mage supporter but I quite like the Tranquil, they must live quite a peaceful existence. If everyone, mages and mundane a alike, were made Tranquil you'd probably have a much nicer world without all the fighting and hatred. I disagree though that it is necessary to keep mages under control though. I doubt the Imperium use the Rite of Tranquility.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

You can't teach willpower, some people are weak minded and others are strong minded the same way people can be stupid or ugly or smart or pretty. Or stupid, ugly and weak minded or Smart, pretty and strong minded. 

I agree in part, but Quickpaw is right that the Circle and the general hatred of magic can break a mind that could have been stronger than it was. Still, this does mean that Tranquility might continue to be necessary even in a better Circle.

[Doominike]

That's true too ya