46 réponses à ce sujet

[Incantrix]

I see it the complete opposite if the Magi LOSE theirs hope she could step in and see them all caged again instead of slaughtered.

 

but if magi win her opposition to the rebellion would see her cast out like a leaper for supporting the newly named "old Magi prison system"

 

I don't think so. 

 

I see her as a politician. She wants what's best for her fellow mages. BUT she does not want war as that can only lead to death. I think she wants to congregate with the chantry and come to a mutual understanding that works on both terms. 

 

Remember. A mage in danger is susceptible to doing dangerous magic.  Remember Kirkwall?? All those mages who had their backs against the wall ended up turning to blood magic. Not all mages are Fiona, Vivienne, The Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor. They are not all skilled enough to use powerful non-blood magic. Blood magic is for weak mages who do not have the skill to defend themselves. 

 

Blood magic is the reason mundanes fear mages and want them locked up. For every skilled fireball storm casting blizzard summoning mage there's 20 mages who can barely light a candle on command. Of course they will turn to blood magic when they have 5 templars coming after them during a war. 

 

So do you think that Vivienne would want that? Do you think Vivienne wants her lesser mages to continue perpetuating the practice of blood magic for self defense? No. She wants peace. She wants mutual benefit. She wants understanding. 

 

There's no mutual-understanding in conflict. And I think that's where Vivienne is coming from. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

I don't think so. 

 

I see her as a politician. She wants what's best for her fellow mages. BUT she does not want war as that can only lead to death. I think she wants to congregate with the chantry and come to a mutual understanding that works on both terms. 

 

Remember. A mage in danger is susceptible to doing dangerous magic.  Remember Kirkwall?? All those mages who had their backs against the wall ended up turning to blood magic. Not all mages are Fiona, Vivienne, The Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor. They are not all skilled enough to use powerful non-blood magic. Blood magic is for weak mages who do not have the skill to defend themselves. 

 

Blood magic is the reason mundanes fear mages and want them locked up. For every skilled fireball storm casting blizzard summoning mage there's 20 mages who can barely light a candle on command. Of course they will turn to blood magic when they have 5 templars coming after them during a war. 

 

So do you think that Vivienne would want that? Do you think Vivienne wants her lesser mages to continue perpetuating the practice of blood magic for self defense? No. She wants peace. She wants mutual benefit. She wants understanding. 

 

There's no mutual-understanding in conflict. And I think that's where Vivienne is coming from. 

 

war is about sides she opposes it and by extension she opposes the rebels.

If the rebels win after she opposed them, she'd have no platform to preach from.

[Incantrix]

war is about sides she opposes it and by extension she opposes the rebels.

If the rebels win after she opposed them, she'd have no platform to preach from.

 

If the rebels win. She's still someone with a vast connection to nobles. She is a connection to the mundanes. She is someone mages can look up to and maintain good standing with the general populace so there will be no more war. No more strife. No more fear. People can see mages for what they really are: Special people. 

 

She's also arguably one of the most powerful circle mages in Thedas. The normal "not able to light a candle" mage isn't going to dismiss her. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

If the rebels win. She's still someone with a vast connection to nobles. She is a connection to the mundanes. She is someone mages can look up to and maintain good standing with the general populace so there will be no more war. No more strife. No more fear. People can see mages for what they really are: Special people. 

 

but would the rebels see it that way? after all IF they win they would be in charge.

[Incantrix]

but would the rebels see it that way? after all IF they win they would be in charge.

 

"if" they win there's no telling what could happen afterwards, honestly. I have a theory, that if they win,  Tevinter will most definitely take advantage of the situation. And then what?

 

With a war shaken Thedas and a mundane population that wants nothing to do with mages, including the Chantry. South Thedas is easy pickings for the Tevinter...or even the Qunari. This is why we need people like Vivienne to maintain good relations with the mundanes and the chantry. Otherwise after a win will only come more blood and war.

[Tevinter Soldier]

We can only hope Tevinter steps into to save the south from itself.

[Incantrix]

We can only hope Tevinter steps into to save the south from itself.

 

Yes. So the Qunari can now have an easier invasion. Remember, everything has a cause and effect. 

[Fizzie Panda]

I wouldn't be surprised if Vivienne ended up being the new Grand Enchanter, or similar position.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Yes. So the Qunari can now have an easier invasion. Remember, everything has a cause and effect. 

 

nonsense they would come and uplift the south restoring thedas to a new golden age.

 

the People would be grateful to once again be brought back within the loving embrace of the Magisters. 

[Incantrix]

nonsense they would come and uplift the south restoring thedas to a new golden age.

 

the People would be grateful to once again be brought back within the loving embrace of the Magisters. 

Your tevinter role play is amusing.

 

Anyway, I fear we're getting off topic now. lol

[dangeraaron]

Tevinter lover or hater, I have a very strong feeling the Magisters are eyeballing this Mage vs. Templar conflict when not looking down the barrel of a Qunari cannon.  If anything, mages on the run from Templars could come to Tevinter where Mages are the ruling power rather than the outcasts.  If the Chantry crumbles into obscurity, which it may very well do, then Tevinter will likely see all of southern Thedas as easy pickings for a new ideology.  And by that I mean All of Thedas = Tevinter Imperium.  Though as long as the Qunari keep up the advance, Tevinter really can't very well turn their backs on the ox men.  

 

If Tevinter does succeed in driving the Qunari back and can focus it's attention away from them to the South, then it will likely do whatever it takes to see the Templars and Chantry destroyed, and likely crush a troubled Orlais in the process.  And if Orlais does decide to attack Fereldan for some apparent reason (such as a change in leadership thinking military action will be better for the country), then Tevinter could flank them.  I suppose you could say it would be some righteous and twisted dream of mine to see Orlais go up in flames, being destroyed on separate sides by Fereldan and Tevinter.  Throw in the Dalish too (as ganging up on Orlais).  

 

And no, it's not just because I love the prospect of my two favorite human DA nations stepping all over my most hated human DA nation (so far, I know next to nothing about the others).  

 

Anyway back to Vivienne.  I like Irving more, and that's because I don't know much about Vivienne yet, but considering my Qunari Mage is full on pro-mage, anti-circle/chantry/templar, he's not going to hear out what the air headed Maleficent ripoff has to say.  

[MattH]

I think a council of mages would work better at running a new circle system. Keep them independent from the chantry, but perhaps have ambassadors for the major factions included in the council. Chantry, dwarves, elves etc

[Incantrix]

@dangeraaron

Circle mages  are not safe from the Tevinter Imperium. All those useless mages who can barely light a candle are no better than mundanes in their eyes. Which means slavery. Which means cattle for blood magic. 

 

No mage unless they are of exceptional power willingly goes to the Tevinter for that reason. 

[dangeraaron]

Mages can be trained.  They have the blood, they just don't have the talent.  Maybe I'm overestimating Tevinter's ability to be pragmatic and see an influx of additional mages as a good thing, especially against the Qunari's onslaught.  Or maybe BioWare's writers are determined to keep Tevinter 100% mustache twirly evil even against logic, which is a shame.  

[Gervaise]

The thing is if Vivienne was such a good candidate for Grand Enchanter why in the hell wasn't she voted into that position instead of Fiona?    She had a much better right to the position and understanding of the politics involved than an ex-Grey Warden who had been out of the system for years.     This would suggest that either she was more interested in promoting her position of Court Enchanter than getting involved in Circle politics or that the other mages couldn't stand her.   May be she kept rubbing them the wrong way with her superior attitude.      So whilst she would appear to be the right choice for Grand Enchanter should the Inquisitor wish to restore the Circles, I'll reserve judgement until I've got to know her a bit better.

 

On the whole this will not be a problem for me initially since my first Inquisitor will not be in favour of restoring the Circles, certainly not in their original form.

[Incantrix]

Mages can be trained.  They have the blood, they just don't have the talent.  Maybe I'm overestimating Tevinter's ability to be pragmatic and see an influx of additional mages as a good thing, especially against the Qunari's onslaught.  Or maybe BioWare's writers are determined to keep Tevinter 100% mustache twirly evil even against logic, which is a shame.  

The Tevinter magistrate is a selfish bunch. They don't even share their secrets with one another, why would they waste their time trying to train some inept mage with no particular power (like being a dreamer). If they see a useless mage, they'll either laugh or send him to the slave pits. I mean, what is he gonna do? Break free? He can barely light a candle. Lol

[Jaison1986]

I actually think she would be an terrible leader. She came off to me as someone that doesn't care what happens to her people so long as she can keep her own fancy and confortable lifestyle. What kind of leader is that?

[Incantrix]

I actually think she would be an terrible leader. She came off to me as someone that doesn't care what happens to her people so long as she can keep her own fancy and confortable lifestyle. What kind of leader is that?

 

If she was so selfish, she wouldn't be leaving the comforts of being a court magister, living a palatial lifestyle with the Queen to help the inquisitor. Or attempt to become first enchanter for that matter. 

 

Whatever ulterior motive she has in mind for joining the inquisition, it's not just for her. It's for something much bigger than she is. 

[HeyCal]

I wouldn't be surprised if Vivienne ended up being the new Grand Enchanter, or similar position.

Ugh, I really hope if we choose to reastablish the circles, we can choose someone else.

[Sir DeLoria]

I'll make sure the Magi don't win the war, but annihilating them is foolish. Vivienne and/or Irving should run the reformed Circle.

[Xilizhra]

If she was so selfish, she wouldn't be leaving the comforts of being a court magister, living a palatial lifestyle with the Queen to help the inquisitor. Or attempt to become first enchanter for that matter. 

 

Whatever ulterior motive she has in mind for joining the inquisition, it's not just for her. It's for something much bigger than she is. 

It's not like she has much of a choice a choice; even Celene herself had to do that.
 

Also, we have two threads about this... woman already.

[Incantrix]

I'll make sure the Magi don't win the war, but annihilating them is foolish. Vivienne and/or Irving should run the reformed Circle.

The problem isn't annihilating them. The problem lies with how rules will be ultra enforced. If Kirkwall has anything to look forward to, things won't be pretty. 

 

It's either:

 

1)Return things to how it once was. Mages won't agree and more blood shed

2)Make things worse for mages. Mages won't agree and more blood shed

3)Come up with a deal on both parties. 

 

Vivienne is the best bet mages have for #3. I don't know so far, but barring the grand enchanter, she has the most political influence and the most connections to the noble class as far as mages go. She knows how to congregate with the most pompous of lords and make deals with the most dangerous of barons.