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[Icy Magebane]

And Cullen isn't biased? I don't think it matters where you look, you're going to find a biased person in some regard. Loghain hated Orlesians, Cullen hated Mages for the longest time, and probably still holds resentment towards them.

 

As to her contradicting herself...how so? I'm just starting a new playthrough of DA2 after a loooong break so I could have forgotten, but I can't recall her ever outright contradicting herself.

Well, for starters, Aveline claims to be in favor of following the rules, but she bends them when it suits her.  A few examples of this are her support of murdering Kelder, the time when she mentioned killing slavers rather than arresting them in a banter with Fenris, and when she insisted that the elven viddathari be punished under Kirkwall's laws even though she didn't bother to investigate the rumors of sexual assault on the part of city guards.  She also disapproves of Hawke trying to earn money from quests even though she actively blocked Carver from joining the city guard.  I could understand not giving him a recommendation, she actively prevented Carver from having a steady source of income in the only thing he was good at, pretty much guaranteeing that the only way the Hawke family was going to make it out of Lowtwon was to risk venturing into the Deep Roads...

 

Anyway, that's enough about Aveline... suffice it to say that she is not a team player and she seems to need to be in control of everything and everyone around her.  That's fine if you are willing to do things her way, but if not, she simply can't be trusted with authority over the military branch of the Inquisition...

 

But you are right that everyone has some kind of bias in these games, and Cullen is no different... either way, I'm glad Aveline isn't returning.  As much as I liked her, her attitude got on my nerves sometimes.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

personally i wont be using Josephine much, i like her but her solutions arent violent enough for me

[9TailsFox]

I don't understand it either. People are touchy.

Imagine if someone consider you just dangerous animal who must be locked in cage just because you different. Would you like that person.

[sylvanaerie]

I am glad Varric is back though.  It looks like most of his personality survived the transition intact.  The rest of the companions I hope I never see, though a mention if appropriate (like a Dalish hears about Merrill or Mahariel's clan) wouldn't be averse.

[Icy Magebane]

Imagine if someone consider you just dangerous animal who must be locked in cage just because you different. Would you like that person.

Didn't Cullen actually say "mages are not people like you and I?"

[sylvanaerie]

Imagine if someone consider you just dangerous animal who must be locked in cage just because you different. Would you like that person.

He's also undergone a lot of changes since that quest almost ten years prior to the events of DAI.  I'm willing to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt to see where they're going with his character and actually interact with him in the game rather than dismiss him out of hand before even playing the game. 

[Sartoz]

Cullen acted like a zealot in DAO and improved in DA2. However, he still was a two bit player. Thus, I was surprised when he showed up in Inquisition.  In Inquisition, Cullen shows his bias, preferring his Templars to resolve the Breach.... a blind spot perhaps?

 

Anyway, his advice will be taken with great cogitation on my part. Leliana and Josephine advice will be taken based on the current situation.

 

 

[9TailsFox]

Didn't Cullen actually say "mages are not people like you and I?"

Yes.

[Icy Magebane]

Yes.

Yeah, I thought so... that changes the meaning of the statement considerably, don't you think?

[Lingvort]

Why "supposed to be"? Are you a BioWare writer?

"Ascended minor NPC" stories are actually kind of cool to me, at least, because they help demonstrate that not all the random people you meet in a work of fiction are just interchangeable mooks. This can work really well.

For example, in Matt Stover's book Heroes Die, the protagonist murders an ambassador for betraying him into the hands of his enemies and for violating a sacred law in the process. One of the ambassador's guards, a character who doesn't even get named, vents his frustration and impotent rage at the protagonist like a good mook is supposed to, but he's prevented from taking revenge and fades into the background. But in the sequel, Blade of Tyshalle, that guard not only gets a name, but becomes a PoV character and causes the entire crisis that forms the backbone of the book's plot, out of his desire to get revenge on the protagonist. That book series is one of the more critically acclaimed SF/F series around, and the degree to which Stover's plots interlock like that is a huge reason why.

Bringing Cullen back was similarly cool, in my opinion. Take this random soldier from the first game and use his experiences in that game to help shape his personality, then put him in a plausible place for him to matter for the plot of the second game. What's wrong with that?

---

I have already discussed the choice of Cullen as military leader elsewhere, so I don't think I need to rehash all of my points in detail here. However, I will summarize them as such: he is at the very least competent, he commands the allegiance of a significant number of loyal and capable troops, he is demonstratively loyal in all save the most extreme circumstances, and it is highly implausible that any other candidates with similar qualifications would be better - or available.

Post 1: Military Credentials
Post 2: Loyalty and Resources
Post 3: In-universe Justification for Competence
Post 4: Elaboration on Previous Points
Post 5: Coherent Restatement of Points on Competence

Yes, I'm a Bioware writer. My name is David-Sheryl Kirby.

 

Jokes aside, let's just say that it's my opinion,and, in my opinion, his in-game presence was supposed to be over long ago. I know I'm in terrible minority here (how else would Bioware squeeze Cullen back in?), but, those people exist.

 

Bringing Cullen back may be cool to you, but, I'll say it again, my first save that I imported was a Mage. In that save, Cullen goes mad and kills some apprentices, and then he's gone, period. And yet, somehow, he's back, fresh and knew, greater than he was before. Okay, then, full marks for "choices matter". He was a minor NPC whom I didn't care enough about. He was a background character, who, despite this, got pushed into something bigger than he was. I don't find that kind of thing that much interesting, and, in my opinion, that's what is wrong with him being back. When I find characters like him (and the one used in your example) put into a narrative, my first thought about this is not "Oh, cool! He/she will be an interesting addition to the story.", but, rather, "Huh? Who the hell are you? Are you the old man from scene 24?". Not a fan, sorry.

 

As for him being a military commander, yeah, he's pretty loyal and might be able to inspire loyalty and confidence in his troops. However, the "only candidate available" point makes him look like a lesser evil rather than a good choice, but, that's, again, IMO.

[9TailsFox]

Cullen acted like a zealot in DAO and improved in DA2. However, he still was a two bit player. Thus, I was surprised when he showed up in Inquisition.  In Inquisition, Cullen shows his bias, preferring his Templars to resolve the Breach.... a blind spot perhaps?

 

Anyway, his advice will be taken with great cogitation on my part. Leliana and Josephine advice will be taken based on the current situation.

The problem if we wanted to attack someone, Cullen will be the one who attacks. Because looks like he is in charge of army.

[sylvanaerie]

Yes, I'm a Bioware writer. My name is David-Sheryl Kirby.

 

Jokes aside, let's just say that it's my opinion,and, in my opinion, his in-game presence was supposed to be over long ago. I know I'm in terrible minority here (how else would Bioware squeeze Cullen back in?), but, those people exist.

 

Bringing Cullen back may be cool to you, but, I'll say it again, my first save that I imported was a Mage. In that save, Cullen goes mad and kills some apprentices, and then he's gone, period. And yet, somehow, he's back, fresh and knew, greater than he was before. Okay, then, full marks for "choices matter". He was a minor NPC whom I didn't care enough about. He was a background character, who, despite this, got pushed into something bigger than he was. I don't find that kind of thing that much interesting, and, in my opinion, that's what is wrong with him being back. When I find characters like him (and the one used in your example) put into a narrative, my first thought about this is not "Oh, cool! He/she will be an interesting addition to the story.", but, rather, "Huh? Who the hell are you? Are you the old man from scene 24?". Not a fan, sorry.

 

As for him being a military commander, yeah, he's pretty loyal and might be able to inspire loyalty and confidence in his troops. However, the "only candidate available" point makes him look like a lesser evil rather than a good choice, but, that's, again, IMO.

 I actually never got that card on dozens of plays of my Surana.  The same lament could be said in DA2 when Anders pops up saying how he's quit the Grey Wardens when my Awakenings card said he stayed with them.  And my Warden sure as hell wouldn't have stabbed him in the back like that.

 

I prefer to think of the ending slides as 'rumor's you hear that may or may not be true'.  

Otherwise the retcon really would give me a brain hemorrhage.

[herkles]

I am one of the few people who is going to roleplay how my characters might feel about advisors? 

[Icy Magebane]

I am one of the few people who is going to roleplay how my characters might feel about advisors? 

I will, but many players use self-inserts only, or simply prefer to roleplay in very specific ways...

[sylvanaerie]

I am one of the few people who is going to roleplay how my characters might feel about advisors? 

 

I will.  As I noted above, different Inquisitors might have different takes on how their Inquisition should go. 

That said, I still plan on using the Prima guide.  I don't want to fubar up my game right out of the starting block.

[9TailsFox]

Yeah, I thought so... that changes the meaning of the statement considerably, don't you think?

Changes how? Meaning exactly the same. Cullen consider mages don't deserver same rights as he or other no-mage people.

[Muspade]

 

Imagine if someone consider you just dangerous animal who must be locked in cage just because you different. Would you like that person.

Maybe if I was playing the Warden and ten years had not passed by, and he showed gradual improvement and a more rational mind during the course of DA2.

That's a lot of "and's"

[Lingvort]

 I actually never got that card on dozens of plays of my Surana.  The same lament could be said in DA2 when Anders pops up saying how he's quit the Grey Wardens when my Awakenings card said he stayed with them.  And my Warden sure as hell wouldn't have stabbed him in the back like that.

 

I prefer to think of the ending slides as 'rumor's you hear that may or may not be true'.  

Otherwise the retcon really would give me a brain hemorrhage.

I was mostly playing as a male Mage, that might be the case. And, Anders... Anders from Awakening and Anders from DA2 are separate characters to me. I prefer to think that the former is still with the Wardens, while the latter... I couldn't care less about the latter.

 

The retcon already does that to me. Leliana is alive and well in 90% of everybody's playthroughs, I dare say, but, there's this 10% of playthroughs where she isn't. But, doesn't matter, because her death in those outcomes is... RETCONNED. That's right, folks, if she turns on you when you defile the Urn of Sacred Ashes, she somehow lives, even so. And here we were, talking about how your choices "matter"...

 

I guess there won't be a continuous "a**hole" playthrough, after all. Well, I'll definitely try to play as one in DA:I.

[Patchwork]

I am one of the few people who is going to roleplay how my characters might feel about advisors? 

 

No but other people play differently. 

 

Personally my elf mage is going to be cautious about using military force preferring diplomacy then sneakiness. My human rogue will use them more or less equally.   

[9TailsFox]

Maybe if I was playing the Warden and ten years had not passed by, and he showed gradual improvement and a more rational mind during the course of DA2.

That's a lot of "and's"

This my point Cullen in Origin and in DA2 is same Cullen  If he not change in 10 years. He will not change.

[Muspade]

This my point Cullen in Origin and in DA2 is same Cullen  If he not change in 10 years. He will not change.

I played through DA2 recently and I'm fairly certain that he has although you may stick to that opinion and claim him saying that "such large amount of magic might destroy us all" to be anti-mage. 

It's just logical. Magic is dangerous.

[gangly369]

Well, for starters, Aveline claims to be in favor of following the rules, but she bends them when it suits her.  A few examples of this are her support of murdering Kelder, the time when she mentioned killing slavers rather than arresting them in a banter with Fenris, and when she insisted that the elven viddathari be punished under Kirkwall's laws even though she didn't bother to investigate the rumors of sexual assault on the part of city guards.  She also disapproves of Hawke trying to earn money from quests even though she actively blocked Carver from joining the city guard.  I could understand not giving him a recommendation, she actively prevented Carver from having a steady source of income in the only thing he was good at, pretty much guaranteeing that the only way the Hawke family was going to make it out of Lowtwon was to risk venturing into the Deep Roads...

 

Anyway, that's enough about Aveline... suffice it to say that she is not a team player and she seems to need to be in control of everything and everyone around her.  That's fine if you are willing to do things her way, but if not, she simply can't be trusted with authority over the military branch of the Inquisition...

 

But you are right that everyone has some kind of bias in these games, and Cullen is no different... either way, I'm glad Aveline isn't returning.  As much as I liked her, her attitude got on my nerves sometimes.

 

Ah that's right, I forgot about the elven viddathari. That's a fair enough point

As for the Fenris banter, I can't remember that one at all. So I'll hold my judgement on that.

 

As for Kelder, however, I thought it was presented to us that the magistrate was Kelder's father? And that he had been abetting in Kelder's murder streaks of elven girls? So if Aveline had arrested him as you believe she should have, he simply would've been whisked away and allowed to continue his madness. Furthermore, he asks to die. He doesn't want to deal with his madness anymore. So I think Aveline is perfectly justified in killing him on the spot.

 

I can definitely see how she can appear domineering and have a need to control things. I still don't see how Cullen is more qualified, however, He has absolutely zero experience in building up an organization. He has always had the Templar name to back him up, along with soldiers who had been trained for years under the Templar doctrine. The Inquisition, while it is an old organization in terms of it's name, it is building itself from the ground up in terms of recruitment and training.

 

Furthermore, Cullen's only experience in actually controlling the Templars (after years of sitting blindly behind a madwoman) was in cleaning up Kirkwall. Granted, he would've had to deal with riots and instability, but it's one city. He isn't dealing with one city now. He is dealing with nations, with armies, with established organizations. You need someone who has dealt with other organizations that might be more experienced your own (Aveline and her guards against the Templars), and you need someone who can build up their own group into a powerful player. Aveline could have done that. I don't believe Cullen has the qualifications to do that. (Edit: I suppose a counter argument to this would be that Aveline has also only operated within the confines of a city as well, which would be a fair enough point)

 

However, it is a moot point. Obviously Cullen will do all of the above, because he is the military commander, and Aveline is not. And I doubt I'm going to convince anyone who doesn't like Aveline (or doesn't believe she would make a good commander). Doesn't change that I think she would be. Oh well.

 

To cut a long story short, I'm going to be biased towards Leliana and Josie 

[9TailsFox]

The retcon already does that to me. Leliana is alive and well in 90% of everybody's playthroughs, I dare say, but, there's this 10% of playthroughs where she isn't. But, doesn't matter, because her death in those outcomes is... RETCONNED. That's right, folks, if she turns on you when you defile the Urn of Sacred Ashes, she somehow lives, even so. And here we were, talking about how your choices "matter"...

Leliana is writer favourite  pet same as Liara

[Icy Magebane]

Changes how? Meaning exactly the same. Cullen consider mages don't deserver same rights as he or other no-mage people.

"Mages are not people" is pretty straightforward... if this had been the full quote, I would agree that at the time Cullen did not consider them to be human.  This is also a very short, to the point statement that implies that he has a fully negative view of mages and therefore he probably would want them to have less rights than those he does consider "people."

 

"Mages are not people like you or I" is far less callous, and implies that Cullen recognizes mages as human beings but that they should be treated differently because they are different.  There is no malice in this statement, and therefore there is no reason to believe that the different treatment he thinks they deserve means less rights.  Restricted freedoms yes, but the full statement does not imply that they should be treated like animals or like the Casteless, who are not recogonized as dwarves and have no rights whatsoever.

[Scoutyo]

Didn't Cullen actually say "mages are not people like you and I?"

 

Yes.

 

Nope.  His exact line is "Mages cannot be treated like people. They are not like you and me. They are weapons. They have the power to light a city on fire in a fit of pique."  (source)

 

It's a pretty inflammatory line (and not the only one he speaks in DA2).  Still, I'm willing to reserve judgement until I spend some time talking with him in DA:I.  I actually like the idea of Cullen transitioning from an idealist mage sympathizer to an anti-mage zealot to a more mature character who sees the grayness of the mage/templar situation.