584 réponses à ce sujet

[Revan Reborn]

<snip>

While you make a rather sound argument, the military advisor for the Inquisition doesn't have to be a Grey Warden or a Templar. The truth of the matter is it wouldn't matter who it is. The Inquisition, as an organization, isn't trusted or supported by anyone. The Chantry denounced the organization for harboring the Inquisitor, proclaiming him a heretic. One of the major points to DAI is to build a positive reputation for the Inquisition and to bring legitimacy and respect to the organization. Whether it's Loghain leading the army, Anders, or even Sandal, it really doesn't matter. Priority for the Inquisition is to close the Breach, and most of their allies and forces are probably going to come from mercenaries, bandits, and other third party groups.

 

If we are to be honest with ourselves, the only reason Cullen is included is for convenience. He was already showcased in DAO and DA2. As you suggested, he is one of the few individuals who actually has the skills and experience to actually lead an army. It's unlikely any Grey Wardens would do it, as their priority is always with the Darkspawn. It's unlikely most Templars would do it either as they are enemies to the Inquisition. It has to be someone who sees the bigger picture and the geopolitical concerns. Cullen just happens to fit the position well enough to justify his purpose in the game.

[Vilio1]

My first inquisitor will lean towards diplomacy or espionage. I don't like Cullen at all and I'll ignore his advice & probably avoid him as much as possible.

[DarthLaxian]

People actually like Cullen? I thought he was a wobbling coward in DAO that was more than happy to sacrifice innocents because of a fear they "might" become abominations. He was slightly less-annoying in DA2 as he wasn't as one-dimensional, yet he still continued to follow Knight-Commander Meredith almost until the very end. This was despite her draconian methods and harsh treatment of mages. Perhaps some gamers like him for his looks, but beyond physical appearance, he lacks substance and integrity. He will merely be a tool and nothing more in my Inquisition.

 

Whereas, in contrast, Leliana was actually an extremely likeable character. It was a mistake for BioWare to give the player the option to kill her in DAO. Now the community (five vocal fans who killed her) will never let it down and will continuously complain about how their "choices don't matter." The simple truth is BioWare wanted to further develop her character (should have seen this coming with her appearance in DA2 honestly) and decided a pivotal role in DAI was appropriate. I'm personally glad to see she is back as she was one of the best characters in DAO, and she has changed a lot since we last saw her.

 

If people really despise Leliana's existence that much, just don't acknowledge her or use her talents in your Inquisition. Problem solved.

 

Indeed - you are correct about Cullen

 

But why is Leliana any better?

 

Come on, she is a zealot (which in itself is quite bad, as she follows the chantry without questioning it (she might not like doing certain things for it, but she does them anyway)) and she is dependent on someone holding her leash (firstly the Orlesian Lady who got her into to learn the bardic arts (poetry, singing, instruments - also espionage, poisons, fighting and killing), then Marjolaine (note: Leliana didn't as far as we know ever work independent as a bard!), then the revered-mother Dorothea (who became Divine Justinia later on), then the Warden and back to the Divine...and now? - Good question, maybe Cassy at first and the Inquisitor later on (when he/she has settled into the leadership-position of the inquisition))

 

In her way, Leliana is as one-dimensional as Cullen...as I already stated:

 

At least with her you can be sure she knows her craft - with him, I am not so sure (as I said, he is no General, he is the equivalent to a mid-ranked officer in todays military - something like say a Captain or a Major...no, not even a colonel (as that would be the Knight-Commanders rank - while the leader of all Templars and his deputies would be Generals))...still, I will not ignore either one on purpose (Gimping my inquisition is not a good idea IMHO - just because I do not like my staff...I can work with them, if I have to (maybe I get to like them, too - there might be some character development

 

greetings LAX

[Han Shot First]

I don't think you could compare Cullen to an officer in a modern real world military, because medieval armies weren't led by officers that had gradually advanced up a meritocracy. Armies were commanded by aristocrats who had been in part raised for that purpose. Assuming for a moment that Cullen is of noble birth, part of his education would have involved lessons in commanding armies. 

[DRTJR]

I will take the best advise be it from Cullen, Josie, or sister nightingale. Since I'm looking to make the inquisition the Elven superpower of Thedas so mostly Cullen/Josie.

[Barquiel]

But why is Leliana any better?
 
Come on, she is a zealot (which in itself is quite bad, as she follows the chantry without questioning it (she might not like doing certain things for it, but she does them anyway))

I don't see her as a hardline "chantry worshiper", her personal theology is actually quite at odds with typical chantry dogma.

[DarthLaxian]

I don't think you could compare Cullen to an officer in a modern real world military, because medieval armies weren't led by officers that had gradually advanced up a meritocracy. Armies were commanded by aristocrats who had been in part raised for that purpose. Assuming for a moment that Cullen is of noble birth, part of his education would have involved lessons in commanding armies. 

 

Well, isn't that exactly what's different about the templars (at least it should be...), as people from all backgrounds are allowed to joing and go through the training together (yes, there's resentments, biases and all that - Alistair says so and he was a Templar-Recruit after all...one who didn't fit in - the nobles didn't like him as he is a bastard (as he says: the father-less kind ^^) and the commoners didn't like him because being a bastard made him a noble in their eyes....), advancement in rank (from recruit to full templar and later on if you are good enough to Knight-Captain, Knight-Commander and even Leader of the Templars...or, if you are really good, you are able to become a Seeker - even Lord-Seeker) is said to be possible, without the connections (of course - as always - connections do help...but that happens in todays to be true for todays' military, too!)

 

greetings LAX

[Revan Reborn]

Indeed - you are correct about Cullen

 

But why is Leliana any better?

 

Come on, she is a zealot (which in itself is quite bad, as she follows the chantry without questioning it (she might not like doing certain things for it, but she does them anyway)) and she is dependent on someone holding her leash (firstly the Orlesian Lady who got her into to learn the bardic arts (poetry, singing, instruments - also espionage, poisons, fighting and killing), then Marjolaine (note: Leliana didn't as far as we know ever work independent as a bard!), then the revered-mother Dorothea (who became Divine Justinia later on), then the Warden and back to the Divine...and now? - Good question, maybe Cassy at first and the Inquisitor later on (when he/she has settled into the leadership-position of the inquisition))

 

In her way, Leliana is as one-dimensional as Cullen...as I already stated:

 

At least with her you can be sure she knows her craft - with him, I am not so sure (as I said, he is no General, he is the equivalent to a mid-ranked officer in todays military - something like say a Captain or a Major...no, not even a colonel (as that would be the Knight-Commanders rank - while the leader of all Templars and his deputies would be Generals))...still, I will not ignore either one on purpose (Gimping my inquisition is not a good idea IMHO - just because I do not like my staff...I can work with them, if I have to (maybe I get to like them, too - there might be some character development

 

greetings LAX

That's an easy question. She's a lot better than Cullen because she actually has depth as a character. There is much more to Leliana than what initially appears, unlike Cullen.

 

Also, it's inaccurate to label Leliana as a "zealot." Far from it actually. Remember her back story? She was a bard from Orlais, and led a rather reckless and dangerous lifestyle. The betrayal from her mentor and idol almost made her pay the ultimate price of death, and the Chantry saved her not because of faith, but because Leliana realized there was more to life than what she initially thought. It's also worth noting Leliana's loyalty is to Justinia V and not necessarily the Chantry. Honestly, Cassandra is much more of a "zealot" than Leliana ever was. I don't believe the Chantry endorses or supports assassinations, espionage, and deception as following the path of the Maker.

 

As far as using these advisors to their fullest extent, I believe any reasonable person would. My response was more so to those who were "disgusted" Leliana was still living and how it breaks their "immersion." I'm a very practical individual personally and I will use whatever edge I can to further the goals of the Inquisition. I really don't care who the advisors are. They could be broodmothers and I would still use them to build influence and power over Thedas.

[Neeve]

But even if Leliana isn't a hardliner, she still has no trouble, doing their dirty work. So what is the use of her "superior" theology, if she doesn't live by it?

 

What upsets me most about the three advisors - besides that one should be dead, one was a runaway lunatic in my origin (or at least a lyrium addict), and as far as I am concerned, calling the epilogue a rumor is very cheap, just one step away from saying the warden only dreamed all this things - is that they seem to be biased themselves. I mean Leliana prefers the chantry, Cullen the templars and Josie more or less the rest of the ruling class. Where is my mage advisor - right now I would even love to see Jowan back, and he is as dead in some playthroughs too. Who speaks for the elves and dwarves? I can't imagine someone like Bhelen watching, how the humans let drift Thedas into the fade. Not after all the hard work, he let other people do, to become king.

 

But that aside, I propably will try to be fair to them at the start of the game. Considering though that all my characters sooner or later find themselves to be quite anti-chantry, it won't last. Maybe with the exception of Cullen, because history has shown often enough, that you don't want a bored army in your Keep, especially one you don't lead yourself. Therefore I will send all those templars & mercenaries out to do some manual Labor. (e.g. building streets, foraging, ploughing fields etc) if possible

[Todd23]

I think Cullen makes sense as the military advisor for the Inquisition, considering the Inquisition's origins someone who would stay true to the Chantry despite the Templars leaving them would probably be a good choice. Out of them Cullen seems to be the highest ranking one that's appeared in the story thus far, however the whole reason he is such a good fit is because he seemed to have been retconned and fan service in da2. In Origins he was just a recruit who'd just taken his vows, scared to fight, who didn't know much about the one type of creatures he'd been sworn to fight, and in many's playthroughs (including my own) a mage serial killer. My wanting to kill him is sort of my way of setting my story within the Dragon Age universe right.

[go.apostate]

Honestly, my first inquisitor will go with whatever she feels like doing at that moment.
Is she in a particularly sour mood for some reason or another? Let's bust some chops.
Maybe something has her doting on cute humans, so she decides to take the high road and spare them.

I don't care who any of my advisers are, or what their rank is. 
I'll do what I want, not what they want. 

[riverbanks]

That's an easy question. She's a lot better than Cullen because she actually has depth as a character. There is much more to Leliana than what initially appears, unlike Cullen.

 

You literally don't know what there is or there isn't to Cullen beyond what initially appears to make that comparison, because we don't fully know him yet. And I say this a raving Cullenite - we don't know him yet. Leliana has more depth than him because she already had a whole game to develop her character and a DLC entirely about her backstory. Cullen is only just getting his chance to develop beyond "recurring NPC" now, and we haven't even played the game yet to know what is there to know about him beyond a few vague assumptions and implications.

[Original_Bars]

Indeed - you are correct about Cullen

 

In her way, Leliana is as one-dimensional as Cullen...as I already stated:

 

At least with her you can be sure she knows her craft - with him, I am not so sure (as I said, he is no General, he is the equivalent to a mid-ranked officer in todays military - something like say a Captain or a Major...no, not even a colonel (as that would be the Knight-Commanders rank - while the leader of all Templars and his deputies would be Generals))...still, I will not ignore either one on purpose (Gimping my inquisition is not a good idea IMHO - just because I do not like my staff...I can work with them, if I have to (maybe I get to like them, too - there might be some character development

 

greetings LAX

The inquisition is not going to be a faction that is going to have forces equaling an entire nation, you don't need a general. hence why he is referred to as commander and not general. A commander is traditionally a leader of battalion or regiment:

A battalion has between 300-1200 units

A regiment is made up of between 2 and 6 battalions. (max 7200 units)

 

This actually makes sense, since there is inquisition captains in game (shown in early footage), captains historically are in command of Large units/battalions (dont get confused with modern day military structure) and leuitenants lead units such as 'a' scouting unit (lt. harding)
 

 

They don't have to maintain borders or protect an entire country in the traditional sense. they are a specialized militarized force created for one thing.. don't expect to build an army 50.000 strong. besides like said before. most will be mercs or pre-existing groups such as templar splinters and friendly mages that have their own leadership structure in place.

[Killdren88]

I'd like Aveline as my general instead of Cullen. While she a be a bit oh a hard case when things don't go here way, she still managed to keep some semblance of Order in Kirkwall. Plus while she has her own personal bias when it comes to Mages and Templars, she won't ignore possible assets like we see Cullen do in the Twitch when concerning the question who is better suited to weaken the Fade tear.

[Queen Rowan]

I think maybe you all should become game developers if you're so set on judging these characters so hard. That way you can do whatever you want, and the rest of us will have some peace on the forums. 

[duckley]

I will listen to all of my  Advisers and when there is disagreement, I will  go with the solution or action that my Inquisitor thinks is best.

 

The solution or action I take will be based on my knowledge and the trust and wisdom of my team. I would assume we are all in this together and we all want positive outcomes.

 

I will not let the fact that Leliana annoys me or that Cullen is cute determine my course of action.

[9TailsFox]

I listen to Varric money adviser. Sera spy. Iron Bull military he have experience.

 

Herald of Andraste   After Varric is done everyone believe I am Maker, Dumat and Paragon in one body.

[Killdren88]

I think maybe you all should become game developers if you're so set on judging these characters so hard. That way you can do whatever you want, and the rest of us will have some peace on the forums. 

 

I've accepted the fact a long time ago that on Gaming forums, no one cares about what you or I want in a game. The sole reason most people come to forums is to champion what they desire in a game at the expense of what others want. It is all about their gaming experience and no one else. Sometimes you'll have people wanting the same thing and they combine their voices together. But really we are all a selfish lot.

[Revan Reborn]

You literally don't know what there is or there isn't to Cullen beyond what initially appears to make that comparison, because we don't fully know him yet. And I say this a raving Cullenite - we don't know him yet. Leliana has more depth than him because she already had a whole game to develop her character and a DLC entirely about her backstory. Cullen is only just getting his chance to develop beyond "recurring NPC" now, and we haven't even played the game yet to know what is there to know about him beyond a few vague assumptions and implications.

This is a silly argument and entirely misses the point. We are specifically addressing these companions' credibility before DAI. Cullen has appeared in two games. One, he was a lyrium-addict Mage serial killer. The other, he was a naive and idealistic conformist who allowed the genocide of an entire population of people. We know Cullen well enough to understand him as a character. If not for Hawke (assuming you actually defended the mages), a lot more people would have died for "fear" of becoming abominations. It's interesting how Cullen makes the same exact mistakes again he made in DAO.

 

The point, and what others were suggesting, that you apparently missed, is based on the history of the character. It does not make sense at all that he is an advisor. It's purely for convenience and because BioWare continues to recycle characters from earlier games. It's part of their "continuity" to make the world feel more grounded. If there was any respect for the source material, Cullen likely would have been kicked out of the Templar Order long ago and disappeared into obscurity. Based on his history and record, nobody with half a brain would trust him to be competent or able to lead anything.

[Revan Reborn]

I'd like Aveline as my general instead of Cullen. While she a be a bit oh a hard case when things don't go here way, she still managed to keep some semblance of Order in Kirkwall. Plus while she has her own personal bias when it comes to Mages and Templars, she won't ignore possible assets like we see Cullen do in the Twitch when concerning the question who is better suited to weaken the Fade tear.

Aveline would actually be a great replacement. It's actually somewhat surprising BioWare wouldn't even consider her as she is more of a neutral party and wouldn't have the biases that Cullen clearly does.

[Revan Reborn]

I think maybe you all should become game developers if you're so set on judging these characters so hard. That way you can do whatever you want, and the rest of us will have some peace on the forums. 

This isn't a matter of judging anyone. That would suggest these assertions we are making are subjective. BioWare has told Cullen's story. He was a lyrium-addict serial killer in DAO. That is undisputed fact. He was a naive captain who conformed to Knight-Commander Meredith and allowed the massacre of innocent people. That is undisputed fact. Only at the very end did he realize how "mad" Meredith was and change sides. How dense can you be? Cullen has a terrible track record in Dragon Age, which is why many are questioning why he should be in charge of anything. That isn't judging, that's just questioning whether BioWare has common sense to realize how utterly strange this design choice is.

[Muspade]

This isn't a matter of judging anyone. That would suggest these assertions we are making are subjective. BioWare has told Cullen's story. He was a lyrium-addict serial killer in DAO. That is undisputed fact. He was a naive captain who conformed to Knight-Commander Meredith and allowed the massacre of innocent people. That is undisputed fact. Only at the very end did he realize how "mad" Meredith was and change sides. How dense can you be? Cullen has a terrible track record in Dragon Age, which is why many are questioning why he should be in charge of anything. That isn't judging, that's just questioning whether BioWare has common sense to realize how utterly strange this design choice is.

Fixed.

[go.apostate]

This isn't a matter of judging anyone. That would suggest these assertions we are making are subjective. BioWare has told Cullen's story. He was a lyrium-addict serial killer in DAO. That is undisputed fact. He was a naive captain who conformed to Knight-Commander Meredith and allowed the massacre of innocent people. That is undisputed fact. Only at the very end did he realize how "mad" Meredith was and change sides. How dense can you be? Cullen has a terrible track record in Dragon Age, which is why many are questioning why he should be in charge of anything. That isn't judging, that's just questioning whether BioWare has common sense to realize how utterly strange this design choice is.

 

I'm not taking sides on anything here,

but maybe that's Bioware's way of trying to develop maturity to his character.
He's learned through the years by doing awful things, so he should understand consequences more than anyone.
That could make for an alright leader, if he keeps his head on straight. 

[riverbanks]

Cullen has appeared in two games. One, he was a lyrium-addict Mage serial killer.

He was a lyrium-addict serial killer in DAO. That is undisputed fact.

 

The strawman is strong with this one.

 

You realize that epilogue slide where he kills the mages  never actually happened, don't you? You realize the opposite slide where he becomes Knight-Commander also never happened, right? Your "undisputed fact" was never a fact to begin with. You are basing your entire premise on things that never actually happened.

[Panda]

This is a silly argument and entirely misses the point. We are specifically addressing these companions credibility before DAI. Cullen has appeared in two games. One, he was a lyrium-addict Mage serial killer. The other, he was a naive and idealistic conformist who almost allowed the genocide of an entire population of people. We know Cullen well enough to understand him as a character.

 

The point, and what others were suggesting, that you apparently missed, is based on the history of the character. It does not make sense at all that he is an advisor. It's purely for convenience and because BioWare continues to recycle characters from earlier games. It's part of their "continuity" to make the world feel more grounded. If there was any respect for the source material, Cullen likely would have been kicked out of the Templar Order long ago and disappeared into obscurity. Based on his history and record, nobody with half a brain would trust him to be competent or able to lead anything.

 

You are only taking accord one world state of DAO if you want to go by ending slides. In other one Cullen becomes Knight-Commander of Ferelden's templars . Both are dismissed as rumors in both Witch Hunt (new rumor: Gregor send Cullen away to Chantry's sanitarium to level his head) and DA2 (Gregor sent him to Kirkwall to get change of athmosphere). In second he tries to stop Meredith but is too conflicted between his fear of Broken Circle happening again and making mistake of killing innocents to make her step down sooner so he follows her lead.

 

It makes perfectly sense for him to be advisor: Cassandra who is Chantry personel recruited someone to lead Inquisitors armies: why wouldn't she pick someone who is templar, has some leading experience (Cullen was second in command 10 years, that's quite long time to get experience) and someone who is loyal to Chantry and so loyal to her. Also easier to Bioware to take existing character and continue them than do new one.