584 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

I am not saying Cullen isn't qualified for his job in DAI (I suppose Cassandra had her reasons when she gave him the job), but I certainly don't trust his moral compass. He calls mages weapons, and doesn't oppose Merediths atrocities until she goes after Hawke (and I'd imagine that's something the inquisitor knows). He's definitely not a person I'd give any authority, especially when playing a Mage!Quizzy.

[Revan Reborn]

The strawman is strong with this one.

 

You realize that epilogue slide where he kills the mages  never actually happened, don't you? You realize the opposite slide where he becomes Knight-Commander also never happened, right? Your "undisputed fact" was never a fact to begin with. You are basing your entire premise on things that never actually happened.

So you are telling me Cullen was not addicted to lyrium and was not asking the Warden to slaughter the rest of the mages...? Okay. Perhaps you should replay DAO?

 

I never said anything about him being a Knight-Commander. I said he was following Meredith's orders blindly and allowed the massacre of innocent people. If not for Hawke being there, who knows what would have happened. He's a rather dense and incompetent character based on how BioWare has portrayed him.

[rda]

I really don't care, because I'm loving Cassandra as a companion, but from what I know of the universe, it would make more sense to have Cassandra be the military advisor, and Cullen the companion. Cass has been holding a high position in a military org for a number of years, and additionally is probably about 40ish. That might work for a Mage, but I don't care who you are, after 40 you lose a step or two physically.

It would make more sense to have the 30-something guy who has never held a substantial leadership position adventuring with you than Cassandra.

Like I said, I don't really care because I like Cass a lot, but strictly realistically speaking, it does not make much sense.

[Revan Reborn]

You are only taking accord one world state of DAO if you want to go by ending slides. In other one Cullen becomes Knight-Commander of Ferelden's templars . Both are dismissed as rumors in both Witch Hunt (new rumor: Gregor send Cullen away to Chantry's sanitarium to level his head) and DA2 (Gregor sent him to Kirkwall to get change of athmosphere). In second he tries to stop Meredith but is too conflicted between his fear of Broken Circle happening again and making mistake of killing innocents to make her step down sooner so he follows her lead.

 

It makes perfectly sense for him to be advisor: Cassandra who is Chantry personel recruited someone to lead Inquisitors armies: why wouldn't she pick someone who is templar, has some leading experience (Cullen was second in command 10 years, that's quite long time to get experience) and someone who is loyal to Chantry and so loyal to her. Also easier to Bioware to take existing character and continue them than do new one.

I'm actually not talking about epilogues at all. I'm looking at what actually happens in-game when you are at the Circle of Magi or whether you see his actions in Kirkwall. It's irrefutable that Cullen is a silly, naive, and incompetent character as BioWare developed him that way.

 

Considering the Chantry has denounced the Inquisition and they have no control over the Templars either, your points don't bring any clarity or sense to your argument. Also, who's to say Cassandra even knows Cullen? It's not like she's from Kirkwall, and certainly she was only in town to look for Hawke. As I stated earlier, he is in the position because of convenience. Based on his choices in the past, it doesn't make sense any other way.

[Muspade]

So you are telling me Cullen was not addicted to lyrium and was not asking the Warden to slaughter the rest of the mages...? Okay. Perhaps you should replay DAO?

Demanding every mage dead "up stairs" does not make you a serial killer. The warden is the "serial killer", if he chooses to be.

[riverbanks]

So you are telling me Cullen was not addicted to lyrium and was not asking the Warden to slaughter the rest of the mages...?

 

He is addicted to lyrium and he did ask the Warden to kill the mages, but nice job deflecting the part of your sentence that is 100% strawman.

 

serial killer

n.

A person who attacks and kills victims one by one in a series of incidents.

 

Cullen is not a serial killer by any stretch of the imagination. You're grasping at straws to hate him, when it's not even needed. There're plenty of things to dislike about him without pulling "undisputable facts" out of one's ass.

[Eudaemonium]

Aveline would actually be a great replacement. It's actually somewhat surprising BioWare wouldn't even consider her as she is more of a neutral party and wouldn't have the biases that Cullen clearly does.

 

Well, there's two major possibilities. The first one is that since Cassandra spent all of DA2 interviewing Varric that nobody knows where Aveline actually is. Maybe she (and Donnic, if they get together) went to Ferelden, or Orlais, or whatever.

 

The alternative is that Cassandra asked her but the moment Aveline found out they were searching for Hawke she was like 'hell naw!' Not after all the **** Hawke caused in her Kirkwall.

[Eudaemonium]

I really don't care, because I'm loving Cassandra as a companion, but from what I know of the universe, it would make more sense to have Cassandra be the military advisor, and Cullen the companion. Cass has been holding a high position in a military org for a number of years, and additionally is probably about 40ish. That might work for a Mage, but I don't care who you are, after 40 you lose a step or two physically.

It would make more sense to have the 30-something guy who has never held a substantial leadership position adventuring with you than Cassandra.

Like I said, I don't really care because I like Cass a lot, but strictly realistically speaking, it does not make much sense.

 

I actually felt similarly about Liara in ME3. I always thought she should have basically taken over as the game's Illusive Man, helping to co-ordinate information for Shepard rather than being a squadmate.

[herkles]

can we just renmae this thread "hate on Cullen thread"? as that is what it is all about atm

[Muspade]

can we just renmae this thread "hate on Cullen thread"? as that is what it is all about atm

I regret asking "the question" many pages back, believe me.

[lil yonce]

Re: Cullen is a serial killer; Mass murderer is more appropriate, I think.

[Panda]

I'm actually not talking about epilogues at all. I'm looking at what actually happens in-game when you are at the Circle of Magi or whether you see his actions in Kirkwall. It's irrefutable that Cullen is a silly, naive, and incompetent character as BioWare developed him that way.

 

Considering the Chantry has denounced the Inquisition and they have no control over the Templars either, your points don't bring any clarity or sense to your argument. Also, who's to say Cassandra even knows Cullen? It's not like she's from Kirkwall, and certainly she was only in town to look for Hawke. As I stated earlier, he is in the position because of convenience. Based on his choices in the past, it doesn't make sense any other way.

 

Leliana and Cassandra are both chantry personels: left and right hand of Divine. Most likely Divine died in Peace meeting and so Chantry is in state of chaos, this is what I'm thinking is happening but not sure yet. Leliana & Cass are loyal to same side in chantry: first to Divine and then to Inquisition that Cass and Leliana has been building. I'm not sure who is in lead of Chantry who opposes them and Inquisition.

 

Cullen's character description already states Cassandra noticed his skills when he was vital part of restoring order in the Kirkwall. She is looking for leader and why she wouldn't search from templar leaders? Especially templar who isn't joined with rebelling templars.

[Revan Reborn]

Demanding every mage dead "up stairs" does not make you a serial killer. The warden is the "serial killer", if he chooses to be.

I might agree with you if not for the fact that this isn't the first time Cullen has slaughtered or asked someone to slaughter mages. He did it in DAO and DA2. He believes he was justified because it was "for the greater good." He definitely is more than qualified to be a serial killer. If you want to be nice about it, at the very least he is an absolute idiot with no mind of his own.

 

 

He is addicted to lyrium and he did ask the Warden to kill the mages, but nice job deflecting the part of your sentence that is 100% strawman.

 

serial killer

n.

A person who attacks and kills victims one by one in a series of incidents.

 

Cullen is not a serial killer by any stretch of the imagination. You're grasping at straws to hate him, when it's not even needed. There're plenty of things to dislike about him without pulling "undisputable facts" out of one's ass.

 

There is no strawman here. I'm not sure you know what that term means. Cullen is a lyrium-addict. Cullen has killed innocent mages for no good purpose multiple times. It certainly was for "psychological satisfaction" as in his twisted mind he was doing the "right thing." If you can't see how he's not a serial killer, you may want to replay through DAO and DA2.

 

There is no hate at all. I'm merely regurgitating what BioWare has written for the character. This is honestly a worthless endeavor as you have already proclaimed yourself a "Cullenite," meaning you'll defend him regardless of what he does. For your sake, lets just agree to disagree as no sane person based on what Cullen has done would ever argue he is a competent advisor to lead an army.

 

Well, there's two major possibilities. The first one is that since Cassandra spent all of DA2 interviewing Varric that nobody knows where Aveline actually is. Maybe she (and Donnic, if they get together) went to Ferelden, or Orlais, or whatever.

 

The alternative is that Cassandra asked her but the moment Aveline found out they were searching for Hawke she was like 'hell naw!' Not after all the **** Hawke caused in her Kirkwall.

I'm sure BioWare could come up with an excuse to find her if they really wanted. I'm sure Varric would have recommended her for the job.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Re: Cullen is a serial killer; Mass murderer is more appropriate, I think.

Still an oversimplification, I think.

[Muspade]

I might agree with you if not for the fact that this isn't the first time Cullen has slaughtered or asked someone to slaughter mages. He did it in DAO and DA2. He believes he was justified because it was "for the greater good." He definitely is more than qualified to be a serial killer. If you want to be nice about it, at the very least he is an absolute idiot with no mind of his own.

It's like we didn't play the same DA2 but alternative versions.

[rda]

Cullen's character description already states Cassandra noticed his skills when he was vital part of restoring order in the Kirkwall. She is looking for leader and why she wouldn't search from templar leaders? Especially templar who isn't joined with rebelling templars.

If Cassandra is in the position to appoint Cullen military leader, why doesn't she just appoint herself and let Cullen adventure around with Inquisitor?

Unless she just wants to kill stuff and let other people make decisions, but that doesn't sound much like Cassandra. The more I think about it, Cassandra as companion and Cullen as military leader make no sense whatsoever. Their positions should be reversed.

[Revan Reborn]

Re: Cullen is a serial killer; Mass murderer is more appropriate, I think.

Not really much better, but I'll roll with that lol.

 

Leliana and Cassandra are both chantry personels: left and right hand of Divine. Most likely Divine died in Peace meeting and so Chantry is in state of chaos, this is what I'm thinking is happening but not sure yet. Leliana & Cass are loyal to same side in chantry: first to Divine and then to Inquisition that Cass and Leliana has been building. I'm not sure who is in lead of Chantry who opposes them and Inquisition.

 

Cullen's character description already states Cassandra noticed his skills when he was vital part of restoring order in the Kirkwall. She is looking for leader and why she wouldn't search from templar leaders? Especially templar who isn't joined with rebelling templars.

Yep. I saw the character description when they announced his role. I would think she wouldn't recruit him for the simple fact he has been associated with two major massacres of mages. At best, he has incredibly poor luck when being assigned to various circles. At worst, he is an idiotic mass murderer who does not have a mind of his own. As someone above stated, it would make more sense if Cassandra was the military advisor and Cullen was a companion. Clearly, BioWare wants Cassandra to play a more central role in DAI.

[lil yonce]

@Riverdalewhiteflash; Well, the right of annulment is mass murder and he participated in Kirkwall.

[herkles]

Can a mod rename this "why do you hate Cullen?" as this is all that this thread is talking about. 

[Panda]

If Cassandra is in the position to appoint Cullen military leader, why doesn't she just appoint herself and let Cullen adventure around with Inquisitor?

Unless she just wants to kill stuff and let other people make decisions, but that doesn't sound much like Cassandra. The more I think about it, Cassandra as companion and Cullen as military leader make no sense whatsoever. Their positions should be reversed.

 

I have thought of same thing and I wouldn't say no to this. Maybe Cassandra is more hands-on person though? Or maybe she wants to watch over Inquisitor? She might have more experience of leading small elite group rather than large army as well since she was appointed as Seeker when she was very young: she probaply wasn't in leading position in the templar order before that: just really skilled templar I think.

[Sifr]

I am not saying Cullen isn't qualified for his job in DAI (I suppose Cassandra had her reasons when she gave him the job), but I certainly don't trust his moral compass. He calls mages weapons, and doesn't oppose Merediths atrocities until she goes after Hawke (and I'd imagine that's something the inquisitor knows). He's definitely not a person I'd give any authority, especially when playing a Mage!Quizzy.

 

To be fair, Mages are living weapons. I'm generally Pro-Mage and even I don't deny that fact.

 

One of Hawke's (upper right and diplomatic) dialogue options when replying to Cullen saying that is "Well, I must admit that does reduce their bargaining position", showing that it's a fair point to make. It's also worth noting that Varric approves of this option, showing that even he agrees and he has a ton of mage friends.

 

Furthermore, Cullen only stops defending Meredith when it's clear that she's acting irrationally and paranoid. He mentions that he defended her when Thrask and others began spreading rumours of her being crazy, but when you remember that they were planning a coup to overthrow Meredith, it makes some sense that Cullen may have thought they were lying to undermine her authority. It's also worth remember that for the most part, Meredith does seem relatively stable for most of Act 3, even if she's somewhat draconian at times.

 

But when it becomes clear that she's now in la-la land, he immediately steps in and attempts to relieve her of command, ordering her to stand down.

 

So you are telling me Cullen was not addicted to lyrium and was not asking the Warden to slaughter the rest of the mages...? Okay. Perhaps you should replay DAO?

 

I never said anything about him being a Knight-Commander. I said he was following Meredith's orders blindly and allowed the massacre of innocent people. If not for Hawke being there, who knows what would have happened. He's a rather dense and incompetent character based on how BioWare has portrayed him.

 

Give the guy some slack, he's spent a long time being brutally tortured by blood mages and demons, it's not like he didn't come away from that without some PTSD. We saw Keran in DA2 react the same way when he similarly tortured by blood mages.

 

And doesn't the Lyrium addiction further give more of a defence to how he acted during "Broken Circle", since if he was tortured for weeks in that cage, he was probably undergoing Lyrium withdrawal and that caused him to act more than a little bit erractic? By the time we see Cullen again in Kirkwall, he's back on the stuff and gone back to being completely stable?

[riverbanks]

This is honestly a worthless endeavor as you have already proclaimed yourself a "Cullenite," meaning you'll defend him regardless of what he does.

 

For the record, you don't know how wrong you are in thinking that Cullen's fans will defend him regardless of what he does. His fans are his heaviest critics, and have no need to excuse or handwave his faults and flaws, as they are an intrinsic part of what makes people like him in the first place.

 

For your sake, lets just agree to disagree as no sane person based on what Cullen has done would ever argue he is a competent advisor to lead an army.

 

The writers of the series seem to think he is a competent enough advisor to lead an army, otherwise they wouldn't have put him in such a role, so basically what you are saying here is that fans with opinions know the story better than the people actually making the game.

 

In any case, yes, let's agree to disengage as I've no interest in stretching this. I'll leave you with your own words, as they were quite appropriate:

 

If people really despise Leliana's existence that much, just don't acknowledge her or use her talents in your Inquisition. Problem solved.

 

If people really despise Cullen's existence that much, just don't acknowledge him or use his talents in your Inquisition. Problem solved.

[Revan Reborn]

To be fair, Mages are living weapons. I'm generally Pro-Mage and even I don't deny that fact.

 

One of Hawke's (upper right and diplomatic) dialogue options when replying to Cullen saying that is "Well, I must admit that does reduce their bargaining position", showing that it's a fair point to make. It's also worth noting that Varric approves of this option, showing that even he agrees and he has a ton of mage friends.

 

Furthermore, Cullen only stops defending Meredith when it's clear that she's acting irrationally and paranoid. He mentions that he defended her when Thrask and others began spreading rumours of her being crazy, but when you remember that they were planning a coup to overthrow Meredith, it makes some sense that Cullen may have thought they were lying to undermine her authority. It's also worth remember that for the most part, Meredith does seem relatively stable for most of Act 3, even if she's somewhat draconian at times.

 

But when it becomes clear that she's now in la-la land, he immediately steps in and attempts to relieve her of command, ordering her to stand down.

 

 

Give the guy some slack, he's spent a long time being brutally tortured by blood mages and demons, it's not like he didn't come away from that without some PTSD. We saw Keran in DA2 react the same way when he similarly tortured by blood mages.

 

And doesn't the Lyrium addiction further give more of a defence to how he acted during "Broken Circle", since if he was tortured for weeks in that cage, he was probably undergoing Lyrium withdrawal and that caused him to act more than a little bit erractic? By the time we see Cullen again in Kirkwall, he's back on the stuff and gone back to being completely stable?

Would you want a person with PTSD leading an army, let alone having a weapon around to use? That is a serious mental disorder that does not get enough attention and tragedies happen because of it. If that's the argument you want to make, then Cullen is even less-qualified because of it...

 

While that might have made sense in DAO, the fact that he allows a massacre to happen in DA2 when he clearly isn't going through lyrium withdrawal says otherwise. All I'm saying is that Cullen has terrible judgment, lacks common sense, and shouldn't be in charge of anyone. He has a terrible track record and if he was a real person in the real world, he would have been out of a job a long time ago.

[Panda]

@Riverdalewhiteflash; Well, the right of annulment is mass murder and he participated in Kirkwall.

 

Mass murder he didn't approve, tried to stop and even wanted to save innocent: the mages who weren't blood mages or abominations at the time. He could have done more of cource but going against your superior can be hard. Especially if you have had awful experience before and want to prevent it happening again ("I promised myself I wouldn't question the order ever again.")

[Eudaemonium]

It's like we didn't play the same DA2 but alternative versions.

 

And people said none of your decisions in the game mattered, amirite?