584 réponses à ce sujet

[Dunbartacus]

I'm aware of BioWare's rationale and saw it when Cullen was announced as an advisor. This discussion has been about what Cullen had done in DAO and DA2. What the short biography suggests about Cullen is Cassandra recruited him based on post-DA2 actions. This would lead me to believe Cassandra likely wasn't very familiar with Cullen's overall history and likely saw events based on how he described them.

Cassandra would be familiar with the events of kirkwall through varric. Also you may be forgetting a seeker's day job is to root out corrupt and nasty templars and that her legendary interrogation techniques are attested to in DA 2.

 

So you're basically saying Cassandra is an incompetent Seeker as according to you she didn't do the slightest research into the past of possibly the military commander of the inquisition and that she failed to spot a hateful / incompetent Templar all in one. 

 

 .  

[-TC1989-]

Personally, I would listen to all the advice given to me from my companions/advisers. But that in no way means I will actually follow it. Depending on the logical argument given by them, I will base my decisions on that situation. If I feel they are being too biased or something, I will be quick to dismiss it. But since these people are choosing to follow me, I will always give an ear for them to speak their mind, but that's all I can promise them.

[Sifr]

Pre-Dragon Age the Templar Order had a capacity more similar to a "military." This was especially true when they were still the first Inquisition, but such mechanisms and priorities changed once they integrated with the Chantry and became the Templar Order as well as the Seekers of Truth. Templars are trained to counteract mages, not Darkspawn or Archdemons.

 

By that token logic, why did they take part in the Exalted Marches and the various Blights? I'm sorry, but you're entirely mistaken that the Templars, while acting more in the role of prison guard in peace time, don't continue to operate as a reserve military force.

 

 

I find it humorous how you try to take a practical situation and make it absurd. Dealings of Templars are a matter of safety and security. The Chantry would take this with the utmost seriousness and given Meredith's history, would have reason to believe she was unstable and likely not fit to lead. Lets be honest. Had the Chantry had some oversight over the Templar's dealings, this entire situation could have been avoided a long time ago. However, such a safe and well-run organization makes for a boring game and story.

 

It's only absurd that you're talking about one person trying to get their equivalent to the Pope to get rid off one bad boss. A lone individual wouldn't have much success in trying to overthrow their boss with no support to make the matter be taken up at a higher level? Enough Templars supported Meredith, while Elthina was neutral about her, so getting anyone higher up to listen was a thankless task?

 

Meredith is a good example of a really jerkass General, who keeps their job because they get good results, not because they're beloved by the people under them. As long as she was keeping the mages in check and preventing the blood mages in Kirkwall from running rampant, the Chantry probably didn't care about her personality.

 

 

 

The reason tensions increased was because of a failure to communicate on the part of the Templars with the Qunari. If you never open up a dialogue, of course tensions will worsen as the adverse party will only assume the worst of you. I never stated the Qunari was the "disease." Re-read my post. I was saying members within the Templar Order and Chantry were the "disease," which is why they had authority to resolve the problem. The Qunari merely acted on the incompetence of these two organizations.

 

Fair enough, you weren't clear in who the disesase was in this case, but your justifcation for the Templar involvement is flimsy. The Arishok didn't want anyone but Hawke. As he says, there aren't any in the city he considers worthy or even a good rival, but Hawke is the one who's shown the most promise. Even if the Templars did stick their oar in, he's not going to listen to Meredith. And given how she treats a King Alistair as if he's a small child, that's probably a good thing!

 

 

There was nothing to like. Cullen was killing mages based on a fear they may become abominations. This situation was escalated due to the fact he was having lyrium withdrawals and he had been tortured by blood mages and abominations. Again, you are trying to read my words how you'd like rather than actually reading the true meaning.

 

Doing something doesn't correlate to you liking it. He truly believed, in his own twisted mind, he was doing the right thing. I've said this multiple times and you continue to disregard it as you are attempting to find ways to undermine my argument, and with little success I might add. Just admit you were mistaken. Honestly, it would save you a lot of time.

 

Cullen didn't kill anyone. That epilogue was said by word of god to be a rumour and non-canon. I don't know how much clearer that needs to be?

 

It'd be far better to admit you so simply are finding reasons to dislike the character, instead of meandering around the issue with petty criticisms that don't hold up to scrutiny, from both myself and others? If I may point to the likes I've gotten on some of my rebuttals, it would seem to indicate that my counter-arguments either are of the more popular opinion here, or at least hold more water?

 

You really have terrible reading comprehension skills. Read my post one more time. Cassandra judged Cullen based on his pre-DA2 actions. She did not judge him on his prior history. We would have to assume that she reviewed it or was familiar with it. I wouldn't assume to much given the fact she was only in Kirkwall for a brief period of time searching for Hawke. At this point, I'm just assuming you have no counter-arguments and so are just trolling for the sake of trolling.

 

Says the person who's continued to transform a simple discussion on feelings about our three advisors, into a hate thread for one single advisor?

 

I'm sorry, but if there's a troll in here, it's not me?

[Vandicus]

Look at the Mage origin storyline for DAO. Look at half of the mages during the Circle of Magi incident in Ferelden. The large majority of mages do not have a knowledge of blood magic. It's generally one mage who dabbles and influences the rest if anything.

 

Again, Orsino turned into an abomination, so do you retract your statement that he was a master blood mage concealing his identity all along to fool everyone?

 

If I'm not mistaken, I'm fairly certain that a lot of these "blood mages," especially at the wounded coast, weren't even from the Circle at Kirkwall. In fact, some of them were from other Circles. Again, you continue to make it appear as if there were an army of blood mages in DA2.

 

You continue to make a lot of assertions about Orsino without actually having evidence to support these claims. Again, there was no indication in the game Orsino was a diabolical blood mage out to get the world. That simply was not the case. He only turned to blood magic at the very end as he had given up on all hope. For the last time, it was Meredith that led these few mages to turn into abominations.

 

 

There are exactly two spells that require merging of bodies. If he had been attempting basic blood magic(such as spell amplification) and become an abomination accidentally, you'd have a point, but his possession is clearly intentional.

 

If you watch Orsino's transformation, you can see he is intentionally attempting to merge bodies with himself as the core.

 

These two spells are:

 

1. Creating a Harvester.

2. Creating a Frankenstein style creature which dies shortly thereafter(act 2)

 

What is exactly a Harvester?

 

It is a flesh golem using a Fade spirit as the operator.

 

 

What does Orsino create? A flesh golem, using a Fade spirit as the operator. 

 

Orsino is not casting a spell that doesn't require a Fade spirit to be in control. He is casting a spell that involves allowing the Fade spirit to control the resulting golem.

 

The fact that he can emulate what required the efforts of quite a few people singlehandedly is impressive in itself. It might very well have to do with his decision to use a living mage as the focal point, rather than corpses alone that allowed him to do so.

 

*EDIT

 

Also, people don't "accidentally" cast spells of great power and complexity. Mages can't "accidentally" summon and control demons or create a Harvester.

[Jester]

It's true, I applauded how Grand Cleric Elthina used her authority in handling the Kirkwall Templar situation, by being right on top of Meredith's excessive abuses of power and taking steps to appoint a new Knight-Commander...

Exactly how did Meredith abuse her power, apart from Annuling the Circle?

[Muspade]

Exactly how did Meredith abuse her power, apart from Annuling the Circle?

Actively preventing anyone from taking seat as the Viscount after Dumar was killed, for one.

[Dunbartacus]

Exactly how did Meredith abuse her power, apart from Annuling the Circle?

She wouldn't relinquish power so the nobles could appoint a new viscount and was increasingly strict and draconian in her treatment of the mages.

[Vandicus]

Actively preventing anyone from taking seat as the Viscount after Dumar was killed, for one.

 

 

A fair point. She's definitely overstepping the bounds of her station there.

 

Irrelevant to why Cullen would think she's a better judge of who uses blood magic or not, and therefore accept her decision to annul the Circle.

 

I think he passes the reasonable man test in this situation, mostly because I reached the conclusion myself the Meredith was better at telling whether people were blood mages than I was.

 

*EDIT

 

Its also worth noting that Cullen still saves mage that he thinks he can reasonably sure aren't blood mages, during a battle in which mages are blood magicking demons by the dozens for him to fight.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Exactly how did Meredith abuse her power, apart from Annuling the Circle?

I believe if you play pro-mage it's established that Meredith was sending out death-squads to handle anyone in the civilian population who was speaking out against her. If so, I'm quite certain that counts.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

I believe if you play pro-mage it's established that Meredith was sending out death-squads to handle anyone in the civilian population who was speaking out against her. If so, I'm quite certain that counts.

 

I have played pro-mage in all my play-throughs bar one and I don't remember this at all (taking into account that it has been a while since I have played DA:2). Do you know if there is dialogue of this on YouTube so I can jog my memory?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I have played pro-mage in all my play-throughs bar one and I don't remember this at all (taking into account that it has been a while since I have played DA:2). Do you know if there is dialogue of this on YouTube so I can jog my memory?

I wouldn't be qualifying that post as heavily if I knew where it could be found on Youtube.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Could we stop talking about Cullen and his military credentials. It's really to be a distraction from the point of the thread. At least to me anyway. 

[lil yonce]

Meredith may have abused her power to delay the new Viscount and sentenced a ton of people who'd passed their Harrowings to undergo the Rite Tranquility, something that goes against Chantry Law... but when it came to being paranoid about Blood Mages, she was often on the ball, I'll give her that.

And a dead clock is right twice a day.

[Doominike]

Totes will be, I'll do whatever I want regardless of what any of them says. As for bias on a personal level, Josephine is a people people so I very likely won't get along with her, Leliana is "eh" to me and I hate cullen

[Jester]

I believe if you play pro-mage it's established that Meredith was sending out death-squads to handle anyone in the civilian population who was speaking out against her. If so, I'm quite certain that counts.

I played pro mage and I did all quests/dialogues and I certainly cannot remember anything like that, so a source would be welcome. 

 

Actively preventing anyone from taking seat as the Viscount after Dumar was killed, for one.

 

You say that like there was anyone capable of assuming that role. Considering the fact that pro-Templar Hawke became Viscout after Meredith was killed, we can safely assume, that there was no one more fitting for a ruler than Hawke in entire Kirkwall.

No one was more competent than Hawke. That's saying quite a lot about how lost those nobles were. Dumar was the best of them, and he wasn't even able to handle the Qunari issue.

 

She wouldn't relinquish power so the nobles could appoint a new viscount and was increasingly strict and draconian in her treatment of the mages.

 

As I said - there was nobody competent (or even willing for that matter) to take hold of Kirkwall in this particular period. 

As to draconian treatment of mages... what do we actually see? 

 

• Sends Hawke to hunt down three apostates. One is a fool, the other two are dangerous blood mages, that needed to be hunted down and killed. The fact that two blood mages managed to hide easily inside the Circle (and then ran away), is a clear proof that Orsino and Senior Enchanters were actively hiding blood mages from Templars. 
• There is a conspiracy to overthrow Meredith, because she's mad/a danger. Conspiracy consists of Templars and mages attacking Hawke on sight, revenge-driven apostate who kidnaps your sibling and a lenient Templar that was willing to work with blood mages, at least until they crossed a line.
• Meredith is suspicious and distrusts Orsino, who is later proved to be a master blood mage and necromancer, who knew about Quentin, and smuggled dangerous books for him from inside the Circle, and was in clear awe towards his abilities. 
• Meredith orders her Templars to thoroughly search the Circle Tower, because she's suspicious about Orsino and other Senior Enchanters supporting/hiding/training blood mages - as it turns out, rightly so. 

So...Yeah. 

She did go overboard with annuling the Circle, but Elthina can hardly be blamed for not intervening by then, can she?

 

Edit:

Meredith may have abused her power to delay the new Viscount and sentenced a ton of people who'd passed their Harrowings to undergo the Rite Tranquility, something that goes against Chantry Law... but when it came to being paranoid about Blood Mages, she was often on the ball, I'll give her that.

 

There's actually no proof of that, apart from Anders' musings, and I'm not exactly inclined to believe him, when he says that "he's seeing more and more Tranquil every day"... because Anders is completely insane and deluded at this point (several minutes later he almost kills a mage girl in a blind rage, unable to control himself - obviously Justice is largely dominating his mind by then). 

We know that Meredith rejected the proposal of "Tranquil Solution", which turned out to be an idea of one sociopathic Templar, which died with him. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I played pro mage and I did all quests/dialogues and I certainly cannot remember anything like that, so a source would be welcome.

By popular demand:

 

http://dragonage.wik.../A_Noble_Agenda

 

And the Youtube. Looks damning.

[Sifr]

She wouldn't relinquish power so the nobles could appoint a new viscount and was increasingly strict and draconian in her treatment of the mages.

 

Pretty much this.

 

It's fair to say that Meredith should have given over power to the nobles to elect a new leader after the Qunari had left the city and order was restored. It seems clear to most of the nobles that she's not going to acquiese power to anyone who's not going to support the Templars, which would make the Viscount little more than a puppet without any legitimate power.

 

It's not the first time this has happened either, since Meredith supported Dumar's election after they kicked out Perrin Threnhold, knowing that Dumar was relatively spineless, so most of the power remained in the Templar hands.

 

I have played pro-mage in all my play-throughs bar one and I don't remember this at all (taking into account that it has been a while since I have played DA:2). Do you know if there is dialogue of this on YouTube so I can jog my memory?

 

It happens at the beginning of Act 3 if you support Orsino, where you're invited by some nobles to discuss ways to oust her, or at least convince her to allow elections for a new Viscount to occur, only to interrupted by a Templar hit-squad who attempt to silence them.

 

 

Could we stop talking about Cullen and his military credentials. It's really to be a distraction from the point of the thread. At least to me anyway. 

 

Here, here!

[lil yonce]

Oh, I definitely agree with this. The Major reason I supported The mages instead of The templars in my canon is that the Annulment shouldn't have been called for What Anders did.

On Cullen, I think bioware confirmed advisors won't leave us, so I doubt there'll be many problems if We support mages. Even in the streaming, Where he stated his preference in recruiting The templars, he didn't show any anti-mage view.

I don't think it was called for what Anders did. What he did and "the city will riot and destroy the circle itself" were only the excuses to invoke an annulment she'd long been planning in her paranoia. At either the end of Act 2 or the beginning of Act 3, she had sent to Val Royeaux for the RoA when Elthina would not grant it to her. With Elthina gone - she could call it and she did.

 

And I think Cullen will strongly disagree with my siding with the mages in DAI, but I expect him to keep his opinion on that mostly to himself so as not to make waves. I think each advisor will act similarly when the inquisitor takes action they disagree with to prevent the inquisition falling apart from within.

[Caelorummors]

I am most definitely going to be biased. I want to do everything Josie suggests, despite my own personal feeling that Leliana's cloak 'n dagger thing is way more fun. Also, with despite how awesome I feel Cullen is, I am going to be biased against his "way" because it seems to be mostly a show of force. In some  cases I will do it, but my bias will end up with me shying away from someone  I tend to find very interesting.

[lil yonce]

I have played pro-mage in all my play-throughs bar one and I don't remember this at all (taking into account that it has been a while since I have played DA:2). Do you know if there is dialogue of this on YouTube so I can jog my memory?

Its in the quest A Noble Agenda for pro-mage and The Last Holdouts for pro-templar.

[The Elder King]

I don't think it was called for what Anders did. What he did and "the city will riot and destroy the circle itself" were only the excuses to invoke an annulment she'd long been planning in her paranoia. At either the end of Act 2 or the beginning of Act 3, she had sent to Val Royeaux for the RoA when Elthina would not grant it to her. With Elthina gone - she could call it and she did.
 
And I think Cullen will strongly disagree with my siding with the mages in DAI, but I expect him to keep his opinion on that mostly to himself so as not to make waves. I think each advisor will act similarly when the inquisitor takes action they disagree with to prevent the inquisition falling apart from within.

I'm not sure about she Used Anders' actions as an excuse, though it's irrelevant to my Hawke. She stated she called it for that reason, and he was against it. And The Chantry would've probably had problems with her calling it for that reason.

I don't think Cullen will strongly disagree. Based on The streaming his reason to prefer templars is based on his concerns on using more magic on The Breach, not necessarily mages. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it'll turn out.

[Adela]

Revan Reborn

You would be entirely incorrect then. I am merely using DAO and DA2 to express what Cullen has done. We can play semantics all day. The events are in plain view. BioWare wrote the character, not me.

Perhaps you should re-read most of these posts, as it has actually been other posters trying to "shut me down." I merely listed the various mistakes and questionable choices Cullen made in the previous games. It was others, Cullenites or not, who then tried to make excuses or construe his actions in a different light as to make him innocent or immune from guilt and fault. I see that as silly. Part of what makes Dragon Age interesting is the fact that these characters are far from perfect. Cullen clearly fits that philosophy perfectly.

I dont think that those who "defended" him were trying to make him look innocent/immune,  yes they were trying to portray   his character in a "different light" because they see a diffrent side of him,  like instead of taking all the negative things you think he might have done for no reason because perhaps you might think he is a "soulless bastard" with no feelings or emotions and just likes to kill everyone for no reason, try to put yourself in his shoes for a moment.

 

Like for example in DAO : If it was me being tortured by demons/abominations for god knows how long, and then eventually escaped, I would probably be paranoid as well, and not trust any mage, just like you don't seem to trust Cullen's judgement  based on a bad experience. But in time when you get to know  a person or a group of ppl  you will later come to realize that " hey they aren't all that evil" Just as Cullen did In DA2 at the end.

 

Now granted I was not happy with the fact that he came to realize it so late in the game, and I may agree that something could have been done earlier on to prevent it...

 

However, I also agree with Sifr and others who have mentioned that even tho he was 2nd in command everyone was scared of Meridith perhaps even Cullen by the way he was acting/talking about her (at least thats the way I saw it)

 

Just because she recruited him doesn't make them bosom buddies, close pals and life long friends, she recruited him  because of his torture made him have a more "aggressive/similar" view  towards mages and made his views more closer to hers, because she had a traumatic experience  with a mage that was her sister and it just turn wrong. And  both of them thought that  "all mages are evil" at one point witch is clearly not the case obviously. But at least one of them realizes that....later...

 

Revan Reborn

As I have stated multiple times, I will use him regardless because it would be a crutch not to do so from a gameplay perspective. I just find him a curious choice for the job is all. Is it wrong to have an opinion and express it?

 

No , it is not wrong to have an opinion and express it,  this is what the forums are made for, to share your opinion and feedback... I get that you may be concerned with some aspects of his character and that is understandable.

 

I have my fare share of characters that i dislike BUT i also  read what others have to say about the said character  and try to take that into consideration weather i like their opinion on the mater or not, and then later on, try to play the game with a different perspective and see if that changes my view about the said character or not

 

Revan Reborn

I'm not suggesting anyone needs to be a saint either. However, people should learn from their mistakes, especially if they've gone through horrific and traumatic experiences such as Cullen. Based on what he learned in DAO alone, he should be taking every precaution to try and avoid another massacre, which inevitably happened anyways.

 

You are right ppl should learn from their mistakes,  and personally I am hoping  that Cullen doesn't have the same state of mind about mages as he did before.

However IMO In act one of DA2  I think that Cullen was still traumatized about the events that happen in Ferelden.. hence why he says " mages are not people , they are not like you and me" because I think he believes that they can't still be trusted based on his experience he had and he is trying to be cautious about it, and not let "personal" feelings get the better of him... sort of speak.

 

But later on as Hawke proves him wrong that not all mages are evil and some of them are just trying to survive, he then changes his tone a bit and he doesn't seem so "dramatic" about it as he was the 1st time (once again this is how I saw it)

 

All im saying is, even tho you might not agree with others ppl views  about Cullen, at least try to take them into consideration, as I said weather you like the character or not, and regardless what he did in the past at least give it a chance and see if he will be any different  in DAI , and if  after you played the game you still feel the same, then thats fine at least you can say you tired to see him differently. But don't try to shut everyone else  down because they will do the same, and it will turn into a never-ending argument..

Thats all I have to say on this matter

 

 

Holy crap i think this is the longest post I ever made lol.. ok time to go to bed now

[Revan Reborn]

Cassandra would be familiar with the events of kirkwall through varric. Also you may be forgetting a seeker's day job is to root out corrupt and nasty templars and that her legendary interrogation techniques are attested to in DA 2.

 

So you're basically saying Cassandra is an incompetent Seeker as according to you she didn't do the slightest research into the past of possibly the military commander of the inquisition and that she failed to spot a hateful / incompetent Templar all in one. 

 

 .  

You really think Varric is the most credible source when it comes to telling events? He is a known liar and loves to embellish stories. Cassandra even reprimands him multiple times in DA2 for changing the facts to his own liking. I'm quite aware of what her job description is, although I wouldn't call her interrogation techniques as "legendary" as she was rather horrible at gaining information from Varric.

 

What I'm saying is the biography suggested she focused on what Cullen did post-DA2 rather than what happened pre-DA2. That leads me to believe she is either not concerned or finds his past irrelevant, which could be potentially dangerous thinking.

 

By that token logic, why did they take part in the Exalted Marches and the various Blights? I'm sorry, but you're entirely mistaken that the Templars, while acting more in the role of prison guard in peace time, don't continue to operate as a reserve military force.

 

 

 

It's only absurd that you're talking about one person trying to get their equivalent to the Pope to get rid off one bad boss. A lone individual wouldn't have much success in trying to overthrow their boss with no support to make the matter be taken up at a higher level? Enough Templars supported Meredith, while Elthina was neutral about her, so getting anyone higher up to listen was a thankless task?

 

Meredith is a good example of a really jerkass General, who keeps their job because they get good results, not because they're beloved by the people under them. As long as she was keeping the mages in check and preventing the blood mages in Kirkwall from running rampant, the Chantry probably didn't care about her personality.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough, you weren't clear in who the disesase was in this case, but your justifcation for the Templar involvement is flimsy. The Arishok didn't want anyone but Hawke. As he says, there aren't any in the city he considers worthy or even a good rival, but Hawke is the one who's shown the most promise. Even if the Templars did stick their oar in, he's not going to listen to Meredith. And given how she treats a King Alistair as if he's a small child, that's probably a good thing!

 

 

 

Cullen didn't kill anyone. That epilogue was said by word of god to be a rumour and non-canon. I don't know how much clearer that needs to be?

 

It'd be far better to admit you so simply are finding reasons to dislike the character, instead of meandering around the issue with petty criticisms that don't hold up to scrutiny, from both myself and others? If I may point to the likes I've gotten on some of my rebuttals, it would seem to indicate that my counter-arguments either are of the more popular opinion here, or at least hold more water?

 

 

Says the person who's continued to transform a simple discussion on feelings about our three advisors, into a hate thread for one single advisor?

 

I'm sorry, but if there's a troll in here, it's not me?

Templars are not soldiers. We can use DAO as a perfect example to illustrate this. Out of the three treaties the Grey Wardens had to build an army to fight the Archdemon, were any of those for Templars? Didn't guess it? Absolutely not. The treaties were for the Dwarves of Orzammar, the Dalish Elves, and the Mages of Calenhad Lake. Templars are nothing more than guards tasked with subjugating mages. That is their purpose. Any military function they once had fell into obscurity.

 

I can't help it if you fail to see that Cullen could have potentially did something more. If you want to be a pessimist and assume he did the best he could, then go right ahead. Do you really believe the Templar Order was so broken and inefficient that they did not have means of removing corrupt or abusive leaders from power?

 

How can the Arishok have an opinion on someone he never met? The point is the problem stemmed from the templars and the Chantry and it was their mess to clean up. The final nail was the killing of the Viscount's son, and that gave the Arishok an excuse to take the city by force and impose the Qun on all.

 

I have never once stated I was referring to the epilogue. All accounts I have mentioned in regards to Cullen are from in the game at the Calenhad Lake Circle. If not for the Warden's input, Cullen would have slaughtered the rest of the mages without a second thought.

 

How many times must I repeat myself? Do you have a short attention span? I am indifferent to Cullen as a character. This thread was about advisors and I found him to be an ill-qualified choice. It's that simple really. Wow, you continue to lose more and more credibility. You are honestly going to use "likes" as a way to suggest your are "right" and I am "wrong"? I've seen plenty of people type the most absurd comments and receive likes. You really want to make that argument? Be my guest as you are clearly pulling at straws now.

 

I merely stated my opinion about one of the advisors. I cannot help if individuals such as yourselves and others decide to attack irrationally because you do not agree with my views. If you can't even tell you are trolling now, you really should just stop posting.

 

There are exactly two spells that require merging of bodies. If he had been attempting basic blood magic(such as spell amplification) and become an abomination accidentally, you'd have a point, but his possession is clearly intentional.

 

If you watch Orsino's transformation, you can see he is intentionally attempting to merge bodies with himself as the core.

 

These two spells are:

 

1. Creating a Harvester.

2. Creating a Frankenstein style creature which dies shortly thereafter(act 2)

 

What is exactly a Harvester?

 

It is a flesh golem using a Fade spirit as the operator.

 

 

What does Orsino create? A flesh golem, using a Fade spirit as the operator. 

 

Orsino is not casting a spell that doesn't require a Fade spirit to be in control. He is casting a spell that involves allowing the Fade spirit to control the resulting golem.

 

The fact that he can emulate what required the efforts of quite a few people singlehandedly is impressive in itself. It might very well have to do with his decision to use a living mage as the focal point, rather than corpses alone that allowed him to do so.

 

*EDIT

 

Also, people don't "accidentally" cast spells of great power and complexity. Mages can't "accidentally" summon and control demons or create a Harvester.

You can spin it however you like, the game never suggested that Orsino was some diabolical blood mage in disguise plotting to kill all templars. If you remember, if you decide to help him, he actually asks Hawke to investigate and deal with any potential blood mages that are causing problems for the rest of the mages. He is not a bad guy. He is merely pushed into a corner when Meredith decides that no mages deserve to live.

 

I dont think that those who "defended" him were trying to make him look innocent/immune,  yes they were trying to portray   his character in a "different light" because they see a diffrent side of him,  like instead of taking all the negative things you think he might have done for no reason because perhaps you might think he is a "soulless bastard" with no feelings or emotions and just likes to kill everyone for no reason, try to put yourself in his shoes for a moment.

 

Like for example in DAO : If it was me being tortured by demons/abominations for god knows how long, and then eventually escaped, I would probably be paranoid as well, and not trust any mage, just like you don't seem to trust Cullen's judgement  based on a bad experience. But in time when you get to know  a person or a group of ppl  you will later come to realize that " hey they aren't all that evil" Just as Cullen did In DA2 at the end.

 

Now granted I was not happy with the fact that he came to realize it so late in the game, and I may agree that something could have been done earlier on to prevent it...

 

However, I also agree with Sifr and others who have mentioned that even tho he was 2nd in command everyone was scared of Meridith perhaps even Cullen by the way he was acting/talking about her (at least thats the way I saw it)

 

Just because she recruited him doesn't make them bosom buddies, close pals and life long friends, she recruited him  because of his torture made him have a more "aggressive/similar" view  towards mages and made his views more closer to hers, because she had a traumatic experience  with a mage that was her sister and it just turn wrong. And  both of them thought that  "all mages are evil" at one point witch is clearly not the case obviously. But at least one of them realizes that....later...

 

No , it is not wrong to have an opinion and express it,  this is what the forums are made for, to share your opinion and feedback... I get that you may be concerned with some aspects of his character and that is understandable.

 

I have my fare share of characters that i dislike BUT i also  read what others have to say about the said character  and try to take that into consideration weather i like their opinion on the mater or not, and then later on, try to play the game with a different perspective and see if that changes my view about the said character or not

 

You are right ppl should learn from their mistakes,  and personally I am hoping  that Cullen doesn't have the same state of mind about mages as he did before.

However IMO In act one of DA2  I think that Cullen was still traumatized about the events that happen in Ferelden.. hence why he says " mages are not people , they are not like you and me" because I think he believes that they can't still be trusted based on his experience he had and he is trying to be cautious about it, and not let "personal" feelings get the better of him... sort of speak.

 

But later on as Hawke proves him wrong that not all mages are evil and some of them are just trying to survive, he then changes his tone a bit and he doesn't seem so "dramatic" about it as he was the 1st time (once again this is how I saw it)

 

All im saying is, even tho you might not agree with others ppl views  about Cullen, at least try to take them into consideration, as I said weather you like the character or not, and regardless what he did in the past at least give it a chance and see if he will be any different  in DAI , and if  after you played the game you still feel the same, then thats fine at least you can say you tired to see him differently. But don't try to shut everyone else  down because they will do the same, and it will turn into a never-ending argument..

Thats all I have to say on this matter

 

 

Holy crap i think this is the longest post I ever made lol.. ok time to go to bed now

I just don't sugar coat the truth. I tell it how it is. If some folks don't like hearing any criticism to a character, well welcome to the real world. Nobody is perfect and I was making the argument of why Cullen is a questionable pick as an advisor.

 

I don't understand why everybody continues to make this weak argument that Cullen was a "victim" and he couldn't do anything to stop Meredith? Is this really true? Or is this what you want to believe? If anything, it was rather clear Cullen chose not to do anything, until the very end of the game. There is always a choice. Cullen chose not to act.

 

Believe me, I'm not trying to shut anybody down. Plenty of folks are trying to shut me down though, which is rather comical. We may as well just agree to disagree, because the facts and events are plain and certain. People can try and sugar coat or construe them to their "ideal fantasy," but the reality is there. I'll use a simple phrase for those who seem to be offended that I actually criticized Cullen and chose not to see him as perfect. If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all. Constructive criticism is one thing. Nonstop bashing and trolling is entirely something else.

[lil yonce]

Like for example in DAO : If it was me being tortured by demons/abominations for god knows how long, and then eventually escaped, I would probably be paranoid as well, and not trust any mage, just like you don't seem to trust Cullen's judgement  based on a bad experience. But in time when you get to know a person or a group of ppl  you will later come to realize that " hey they aren't all that evil" Just as Cullen did In DA2 at the end.

I don't think that's what happened at the end of DA2. I think what happened is he saw that Meredith was willing to mass kill very potentially innocent people for some hazy greater good and became uncomfortable at that. I don't think it had anything to do with his feelings on mages directly.

 

Now granted I was not happy with the fact that he came to realize it so late in the game, and I may agree that something could have been done earlier on to prevent it...However, I also agree with Sifr and others who have mentioned that even tho he was 2nd in command everyone was scared of Meridith perhaps even Cullen by the way he was acting/talking about her (at least thats the way I saw it)

If true, this is letting him off the hook to me. I do not think fear is justification for inaction when the annulment is called. If indeed fear held him back then he's a coward. And his fear of Meredith is nothing compared to the very real fear she strikes into the mages under her supervision. Mages he is sworn to protect.

 

You are right ppl should learn from their mistakes,  and personally I am hoping  that Cullen doesn't have the same state of mind about mages as he did before.However IMO In act one of DA2  I think that Cullen was still traumatized about the events that happen in Ferelden.. hence why he says " mages are not people , they are not like you and me" because I think he believes that they can't still be trusted based on his experience he had and he is trying to be cautious about it, and not let "personal" feelings get the better of him... sort of speak.

And I don't think his past is justification for his very harmful attitudes.

[10K]

Nah I'm not going to be biased. I'm going to use whom ever I feel fits what I need to do. Other than that I did find Cullen a bit condescending from the dialogue we've seen. But I still have to wait and see about him.