293 réponses à ce sujet

[Paul E Dangerously]

And you'll still get attributes even if you're relying purely on equipment from drops, I doubt they will be worthless. There is still a choice. Don't like crafting? Rely on drops. You may not be as effective but that's your fault. Just like you may not be as effective as if you had manually allocated points in DA:O or DA2 but it doesn't mean you can't be effective, just not optimal.

 

The problem with this? I can't think of a single game that had both crafting and drops where the crafting wasn't hands-down superior.

[Medhia_Nox]

Less to build a character with? 

Crafting allows the addition of powers and stat points.  The combination of stat points allowed any item to support any type of build (I'm thinking armors here - since mages can wear plate - and have their armor give bonuses to Magic and Willpower)   Actually - I'd be interested if there were any compelling reason to have warriors wear cloth. 

 

THEN - things like potions can be modified.  

 

THEN - he suggested that items in the Keep can be modified (cosmetic - I know) - but he said the throne could be further modified in the Twitch.

 

THEN - when you pick a power - it adds points to a stat appropriate to that power.  "Cut Things"  +3 to Strength.  

 

People are really freaking out about three points you click per level in things you would have added them too anyway?

 

You're more than just the Inquisitor now - you're the Inquisition.  People need to think broader than some stupid little plucky adventurer for this one. 

[Blisscolas]

I haven't forgot, it is on top of the list.

You can customize your stats through gear (and its customization)

 

I thought that was clear.

 

I just think you're putting too much importance on this specific point when the game really seems to have emphasized the other mechanic (attributes through gear)

 

but again...need to play first before saying "told you so"

[Star fury]

Crafting is optional. If you don't want to use then don't use it. It doesn't mean you can't be an effective mage/warrior/rogue.
 

Doesn't make what better?

You can't customise attributes without crafting that's why if you want to allocate stats crafting is mandatory.

[Rawgrim]

Not attempting to talk in anyone's name here, but did you actually read what was at the top of this page? You're allowed more character customization (attribute stat wise) through your gear. For one fight you need to be super tanky and get your constitution up a few points, and maybe for another fight you need to be full on critics and magic resistance.

 

I think you get much more variety in your gameplay style than before, whereas DA:O set the "correct build" for every situation

 

the gear is not part of your character. Its an equipable item. I think the issue here is stats that you place directly onto your character.

[Muspade]

People are really freaking out about three points you click per level in things you would have added them too anyway?  

They want the freedom to put their points in "Intellect" on their Warrior instead of "Strength" or "Fortitude", something or other.

[Lumix19]

The problem with this? I can't think of a single game that had both crafting and drops where the crafting wasn't hands-down superior.

Well of course crafting will always be superior but the point I'm trying to make is you can still be effective without it. It's not compulsory it's just the only way to be optimal. That's where the analogy with the attribute system of DA:O and DA2 comes from. In those games you could auto-level but you were going to be less effective than if you manually allocated. It doesn't mean you weren't still effective.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Less to build a character with? 

Crafting allows the addition of powers and stat points.  The combination of stat points allowed any item to support any type of build (I'm thinking armors here - since mages can wear plate - and have their armor give bonuses to Magic and Willpower)   Actually - I'd be interested if there were any compelling reason to have warriors wear cloth.

 

You can't necessarily, either. Armor is still restricted by class (another one of DA2's wonderful innovations) so you're stuck with robes and a stick. You might be able to make something that looks like plate, but forget about wearing normal armors as a mage.

 

Straight from one of the FAQs:

Since armors will no have class restriction I was wondering, if I find a chest piece that has +20 strength and stamina and I'm a mage and decide to equip it will the +20 strength be converted to +20 magic but we get reduce willpower?

Correction to that: you CAN make armors that do not match your class (plate for mages, etc), but there are still restrictions on normal armors. I think people may have taken "can" as "always."

[Blisscolas]

You can't customise attributes without crafting that's why if you want to allocate stats crafting is mandatory.

 

hum....drops modify your attribute points...pick your drop correctly

 

 

the gear is not part of your character. Its an equipable item. I think the issue here is stats that you place directly onto your character.

 

come on, let's be honest....In DA:O and DA2, if you didn't have a certain gear, it made your life reaaaaally hard. That made it very much part of your character.

 

The way the game plays out changed a little bit. I feel there's a lot of prejudice against this new approach that allows more freedom and variety in gameplay. Maybe you're not so much into this particular system but I respect that

[Medhia_Nox]

@Muspade:  So they're outraged they can't make poor choices?

[Paul E Dangerously]

Well of course crafting will always be superior but the point I'm trying to make is you can still be effective without it. It's not compulsory it's just the only way to be optimal. That's where the analogy with the attribute system of DA:O and DA2 comes from. In those games you could auto-level but you were going to be less effective than if you manually allocated. It doesn't mean you weren't still effective.

 

That wasn't my point. The vast majority of games I've played that have crafting systems make weapons (or armor) you can find, buy, or are given in the world worthless compared to the crafted ones. This should not be the case. I'd like to believe Bioware will dodge it, but history is against it.

[Muspade]

@Muspade:  So they're outraged they can't make poor choices?

That's my guess. They want "Consequences" for their "Choices" ALA DA:O.

[Rawgrim]

hum....drops modify your attribute points...pick your drop correctly

 

 

 

come on, let's be honest....In DA:O and DA2, if you didn't have a certain gear, it made your life reaaaaally hard. That made it very much part of your character.

 

The way the game plays out changed a little bit. I feel there's a lot of prejudice against this new approach that allows more freedom and variety in gameplay. Maybe you're not so much into this particular system but I respect that

 

No it did not make the gear part of the character's physical nor mental base statistics. They were items with their own stats, that gave you extra outside bonuses.

 

So far it seems we have a lot less options. We get to pick between 4 races, gender, and then guy with sword and shield, guy with big sword, ninja with 2 daggers, or guy with bow, and mage. Stats are being placed automatically to make sure the player doesn't screw up. Its just another case over over simplifying the game.

[Blisscolas]

That wasn't my point. The vast majority of games I've played that have crafting systems make weapons (or armor) you can find, buy, or are given in the world worthless compared to the crafted ones. This should not be the case. I'd like to believe Bioware will dodge it, but history is against it.

 

You mean the game presents you with a certain type of gameplay and doesn't reward you for choosing the right stuff? wouldn't that make crafting useless? You've still got the options for everything. I don't really get the problem here since the attribution of stats is now embedded in gear...that's all. Everything else is the same.

[Lumix19]

You can't customise attributes without crafting that's why if you want to allocate stats crafting is mandatory.

Well aside from passives. Besides that yes, if you want to allocate stats in the most optimal way than crafting is compulsory. No different than the previous attribute system where manual allocation was "compulsory".

 

That wasn't my point. The vast majority of games I've played that have crafting systems make weapons (or armor) you can find, buy, or are given in the world worthless compared to the crafted ones. This should not be the case. I'd like to believe Bioware will dodge it, but history is against it.

Really? Worthless? I've never played a game where refusing to craft impeded my ability to play the game.

[viperidae]

The problem here is that you "write off" gear in DAI vs in DA2/DAO. What you make it seem like, is that you think gear provides the same amount of customization as in previous games, whereas the Devs have clearly stated that Gear will be a much larger part of your stats and thus customizing gear gets you a lot of customization options. If you want to play the math card then look at it in absolutes, gear will be a large percentage of your customization. you're absolutely free not to like that, and not to partake in that - and you will be suboptimal. just like you're absolutely free to write off the attribute system in DAO as "cookie-cutter builds" , try to do something "original" and end up with a build that's suboptimal.

 

Our points of view are clearly opposed and i see the opposition to change a lot with games. But i sincerely like the system, i like tinkering with items and crafting them to fit my needs. I like complex opportunity costs and hard decisions.Maybe it's not everybody's cup of tea, but i think i'll love having the option to run around with a defensive mage robe and an offensive one, each with different stats and unique effects that i could literally swap out between battles. If that's not better customization than the items in DAO & DA2 i don't know what your idea of it is, really.

[xkg]

I feel there's a lot of prejudice against this new approach that allows more freedom and variety in gameplay. Maybe you're not so much into this particular system but I respect that

 

 

We are not against ( can I say we? nope I am not going to risk) ...

 

I am not against. You can have your gear crafting and customization, attribute points from abilities, auto attribute allocation.

It is all right, I don't want to take that from you.

 

I'am for even more variety. On top of that what you already have, allow me to manually assign the points.

You win, I win.

 

How can anyone vote against that - I have no clue.

[Lumix19]

No it did not make the gear part of the character's physical nor mental base statistics. They were items with their own stats, that gave you extra outside bonuses.

 

So far it seems we have a lot less options. We get to pick between 4 races, gender, and then guy with sword and shield, guy with big sword, ninja with 2 daggers, or guy with bow, and mage. Stats are being placed automatically to make sure the player doesn't screw up. Its just another case over over simplifying the game.

I'm really confused by this obsession with your character must have the stats intrinsically and absolutely can't rely gear to provide the bonuses. There's very little difference between the two except for the fact I can now change my equipment and thus my stats (to a certain degree). I agree that we have less options than DA:O but that's because all of the peripheral junk builds got cut away. I mean seriously, some of them were total traps.

[Rawgrim]

The problem here is that you "write off" gear in DAI vs in DA2/DAO. What you make it seem like, is that you think gear provides the same amount of customization as in previous games, whereas the Devs have clearly stated that Gear will be a much larger part of your stats and thus customizing gear gets you a lot of customization options. If you want to play the math card then look at it in absolutes, gear will be a large percentage of your customization. you're absolutely free not to like that, and not to partake in that - and you will be suboptimal. just like you're absolutely free to write off the attribute system in DAO as "cookie-cutter builds" , try to do something "original" and end up with a build that's suboptimal.

 

Our points of view are clearly opposed and i see the opposition to change a lot with games. But i sincerely like the system, i like tinkering with items and crafting them to fit my needs. I like complex opportunity costs and hard decisions.Maybe it's not everybody's cup of tea, but i think i'll love having the option to run around with a defensive mage robe and an offensive one, each with different stats and unique effects that i could literally swap out between battles. If that's not better customization than the items in DAO & DA2 i don't know what your idea of it is, really.

 

 

There is no reason why they couldn't have done this + let the player allocate 3 stats where he wished per level.

[Muspade]

How can anyone vote against that - I have no clue.

Because assigning your own "stats" In DA:I via directly assigning them onto your character will upset the manner In which they've balanced the gameplay.

[Paul E Dangerously]

The problem here is that you "write off" gear in DAI vs in DA2/DAO. What you make it seem like, is that you think gear provides the same amount of customization as in previous games, whereas the Devs have clearly stated that Gear will be a much larger part of your stats and thus customizing gear gets you a lot of customization options. If you want to play the math card then look at it in absolutes, gear will be a large percentage of your customization. you're absolutely free not to like that, and not to partake in that - and you will be suboptimal. just like you're absolutely free to write off the attribute system in DAO as "cookie-cutter builds" , try to do something "original" and end up with a build that's suboptimal.

 

Our points of view are clearly opposed and i see the opposition to change a lot with games. But i sincerely like the system, i like tinkering with items and crafting them to fit my needs. I like complex opportunity costs and hard decisions.Maybe it's not everybody's cup of tea, but i think i'll love having the option to run around with a defensive mage robe and an offensive one, each with different stats and unique effects that i could literally swap out between battles. If that's not better customization than the items in DAO & DA2 i don't know what your idea of it is, really.

 

My problem is, though it seems varied, you're still going to be on the same damn railroad every single time. The melee rogue is always stuck with daggers, no matter what. The mage is stuck with a stick he can't even hit people with, no matter what. You might get a tiny bit of variation, but a lot of the fun with DAO replay is that I didn't have to use light armor and dual daggers, or wear robes and a stick.

[Blisscolas]

I'm quoting someone else from another thread about the health regen (cookie for KoorahUK) but I think this applies here as well:

 

Any new system, in any field, has a learning curve. We don't know how steep that curve is, or what mechanics devs have in place for helping players crest it but saying changes shouldn't be implemented because a curve exists solves nothing I'm afraid.

[Rawgrim]

I'm really confused by this obsession with your character must have the stats intrinsically and absolutely can't rely gear to provide the bonuses. There's very little difference between the two except for the fact I can now change my equipment and thus my stats (to a certain degree). I agree that we have less options than DA:O but that's because all of the peripheral junk builds got cut away. I mean seriously, some of them were total traps.

 

 

Bonuses from gear is no problem at all. Being able to add or change stats on gear isn't a problem either. Its about the game limiting my choices that goes directly to my character. Even if some of the options in DA:O were junk etc, it gave options anyway. You could create a character with no diplomatic skills, but his skills at herbalism were great. Its about options, not optimizing. Nothing ruins immersion more in an rpg than when the game makes choices for you.

[Rawgrim]

Because assigning your own "stats" In DA:I via directly assigning them onto your character will upset the manner In which they've balanced the gameplay.

 

So ideally, the DEVS should really make our characters for us then. So we don't screw up the balance in the gameplay?

[Muspade]

So ideally, the DEVS should really make our characters for us then. So we don't screw up the balance in the gameplay?

Cameron Lee is already screwing himself over with how he plays, so I wouldn't even trust him with it.