@Rawgrim: So - what are you saying - you're not going to buy the game?
Cause honestly - I've played a crap ton of real RPGs and many CRPGs... and all of them have different rules and part of the fun is using those rules to build something new and fresh and not trying to force it to fit my antiquated unbending mindset.
If you don't like it - cool.
If you think it's inferior because of it - just opinion.
You could multiclass sure but you were compromising your first class to start gaining spells in a second. Even some of the prestige classes that allow you to level both up simultaneously weren't good enough to qualify doing so, Mystic Theurge for example.
That would depend on your roleplaying style. If it is all about combat then yes, its a bad choice. But if you play a game that focuses on roleplaying, it might not be a bad choice. Non-combat characcter development, and all that.
Let's not get into discussion about how the attribute system doesn't reflect reality/lore, it won't end well.
@Rawgrim: So - what are you saying - you're not going to buy the game?
Cause honestly - I've played a crap ton of real RPGs and many CRPGs... and all of them have different rules and part of the fun is using those rules to build something new and fresh and not trying to force it to fit my antiquated unbending mindset.
If you don't like it - cool.
If you think it's inferior because of it - just opinion.
Most of the additions to the game looks very good. Just not this bit - wich is the topic of the thread.
That would depend on your roleplaying style. If it is all about combat then yes, its a bad choice. But if you play a game that focuses on roleplaying, it might not be a bad choice. Non-combat characcter development, and all that.
True true. But non-combat character development shouldn't hamper your combat ability to the point of frustration/making the game unplayable. Hence why junk builds were cut away from DA:I because having people use them and get frustrated would not have been beneficial. The alternative of course is to make any build viable but DA:I isn't doing that because of complaints etc. I feel like I'm repeating myself.
Has there actually been a developer confirmation of auto-allocation at level up outside of the ambiguous tweet by Laidlaw that started all this? Cause just like the last thread on this from what we've actually seen in demos that doesn't really look to be the case with what we've seen of character stat screens and from the available stat boost that can be applied to weapons and armor.
What Paul posted + now, even the respec potion wont help you.
To be clear, the respec potion applies to ability/skill points, not attributes.
I don't require the game to roleplay for me with it's statistical values and combat. That's the game part of the game. That's about all I have to say about
What Paul posted + now, even the respec potion wont help you.
Well of course because attributes are tied to passives/gear. Thus resetting the passives resets the attribute boosts you got from them.
..or a DAO thing. Or a BG/BG2/NWN thing. The latter three actually gave you new weapon proficiencies as you leveled up (or through feats/multiclassing for NWN).
Proficiencies are restricted by race and class. For a new player, it's kind of a stupid system because how would they know what the best weapons in the game are. And in those games, everyone ends up using the same weapons because they are the best in the game. If you chose the wrong proficiency, you have a suboptimal character. The game is asking you to make a decision based on incomplete knowledge and any type of strategy game where you have to guess is just dumb. So you end up with people asking for builds and just copy other people's build because they don't want to screw up their character.
For a first playthrough, DA:I's system is much better. Because of gear swapping, you're not committed to a build. And since it's open world and there's infinite resources with the exception of maybe the rare items, the cost of crafting is just time. But even at that stage, you have a much better understanding on what is good or bad.
True true. But non-combat character development shouldn't hamper your combat ability to the point of frustration/making the game unplayable. Hence why junk builds were cut away from DA:I because having people use them and get frustrated would not have been beneficial. The alternative of course is to make any build viable but DA:I isn't doing that because of complaints etc. I feel like I'm repeating myself.
Yes it should hamper your combat abilities. Choices having concequences and trade-offs.
If someone makes moronic desicions in the game its on them. The devs shouldn't just remove all possebility of making a mistake. That is hand holding, if I ever saw it.
Proficiencies are restricted by race and class. For a new player, it's kind of a stupid system because how would they know what the best weapons in the game are. And in those games, everyone ends up using the same weapons because they are the best in the game. If you chose the wrong proficiency, you have a suboptimal character. The game is asking you to make a decision based on incomplete knowledge and any type of strategy game where you have to guess is just dumb. So you end up with people asking for builds and just copy other people's build because they don't want to screw up their character.
For a first playthrough, DA:I's system is much better. Because of gear swapping, you're not committed to a build. And since it's open world and there's infinite resources with the exception of maybe the rare items, the cost of crafting is just time. But even at that stage, you have a much better understanding on what is good or bad.
And because there are no builds. Ex: Dual Dagger Rogue is the only option.
I’m actually in favour of attribute gains on ability usage – I think it makes sense that if you learn how to perform a Mighty Blow your strength increases as a result of that targeted training. Gear bonuses are nothing new so that’s fine with me too.
As for auto assigned points… I think I’d prefer it if we didn’t get any to be honest. I’m cool with a default set of attributes per class and the rest is done via abilities and gear. If the game is going to increase attributes for us, I’d prefer it wasn’t every level. Wouldn’t feel so “automatic” then, more of a class feature.
Proficiencies are restricted by race and class. For a new player, it's kind of a stupid system because how would they know what the best weapons in the game are. And in those games, everyone ends up using the same weapons because they are the best in the game. If you chose the wrong proficiency, you have a suboptimal character. The game is asking you to make a decision based on incomplete knowledge and any type of strategy game where you have to guess is just dumb. So you end up with people asking for builds and just copy other people's build because they don't want to screw up their character.
For a first playthrough, DA:I's system is much better. Because of gear swapping, you're not committed to a build. And since it's open world and there's infinite resources with the exception of maybe the rare items, the cost of crafting is just time. But even at that stage, you have a much better understanding on what is good or bad.
Proficiences are one feat away from not being restricted.
Everyone who purely plays the game for combat will have this issue, yes. True.
If you've seen some of the insane stat bumps the gear customization gives you, it's even more boggling than Bioware did this. If they can balance for letting you pop say +38 STR for one item, but being able to dictate +3 points per level might unbalance it, there's something fishy going on.
If they can balance with a +38, it means that a +3 doesn't change anything all that much. The "value" of 1 stat point is not known. If you just think that armor holds sometimes "195 armor ratings" and you had armor ratings that were around "30" max in DA:O, you can only imagine how the value of 1 point has changed in games. if the scale changes, you need to re-evaluate the value of your unit because maths
I don't require the game to roleplay for me with it's statistical values and combat. That's the game part of the game. That's about all I have to say about
I am fairly sure you will say a lot more about it.
Well of course because attributes are tied to passives/gear. Thus resetting the passives resets the attribute boosts you got from them.
And your point is ? I still can't reassign my attributes from level - ups.
Yes it should hamper your combat abilities. Choices having concequences and trade-offs.
If someone makes moronic desicions in the game its on them. The devs shouldn't just remove all possebility of making a mistake. That is hand holding, if I ever saw it.
I said to the point to the point of the game being frustration/unplayable. You may feel that's fine for the "purity" of games or whatever but many will not. Games are meant to be fun.
I’m actually in favour of attribute gains on ability usage – I think it makes sense that if you learn how to perform a Mighty Blow your strength increases as a result of that targeted training. Gear bonuses are nothing new so that’s fine with me too.
As for auto assigned points… I think I’d prefer it if we didn’t get any to be honest. I’m cool with a default set of attributes per class and the rest is done via abilities and gear. If the game is going to increase attributes for us, I’d prefer it wasn’t every level. Wouldn’t feel so “automatic” then, more of a class feature.
FYI, i was led to beleive the same thing, but it's passives that give attribute bonuses, not actives.
And your point is ? I still can't reassign my attributes from level - ups.
I'm pretty sure you don't get any. Only the attributes you receive from passives and gear. Doesn't each level up only give you an ability point?
The inquisitor is made of multiple parts. Like a real book a movie character he has a supporting cast, and tools he uses to overcome challenges. he is not a perfect human being, and he is not a juggernaught in combat just because he killed a thousand men. He has his talents, and magical gear and the resources of the inquisition to augment those.
I'm not disagreeing that we shouldn't use our tools to our advantage, but to solely rely on our gear and tools seems like it'd be a mistep.
Look at it this way;
Tony Stark is awesome, but he's not really that dangerous once you get him outside of the Iron Man suit, unless he's got gadgets on hand or access to enough tools that he can MacGyver himself something to use to arm himself or escape.
Bruce Wayne however is dangerous even when out of the Batman suit, because he's trained and honed himself for years, so that even with his armour, equipment and gear, he's still the gorramed Batman.
I'd honestly prefer to be an Inquisitor that increases their own skills, in addition to upgrading their gear and equipment, rather than be one who's forced to rely on their equipment only, because we never know when we're going to get a situation like Fort Drakon in Origins and Silverite Mine in Awakening when we temporarily lose all our gear and are forced to try to escape in our skivvies?
And because there are no builds. Ex: Dual Dagger Rogue is the only option.
Builds meaning distribution of stats and effects obviously. Now you have to choose between attributes or a special effect like life gain on hit. That is a much more complex choice than herp derp "Do I want strength for warrior or dexterity?"
I said to the point to the point of the game being frustration/unplayable. You may feel that's fine for the "purity" of games or whatever but many will not. Games are meant to be fun.
And it should be up to the players. People thought DA:O was fun, Kotor, BG1-2, Planescape, Ultima 1-7, Might and Magic 1-8. Tons of games. All of these let the player make those choices. Nothing got done automatically because te devs feared the players would screw up or make a mistake.
I'm pretty sure you don't get any. Only the attributes you receive from passives and gear. Doesn't each level up only give you an ability point?
No each level up increase your atribute points, according to your class.
Assuming it's a linear scale that starts at zero.
Before you criticize the absurdity of something, perhaps consider that might be your assumptions that are making it absurd.
Maybe the lowest possible strength score is -100. The, yours increases by perhaps 30% during the game (again, assuming a linear scale).
The problem is, the game does nothing to suggest it isn't a linear scale. The game does nothing to suggest strength can go below 0. Sure, you can attempt to find loopholes and explanations for it, but ulitmately there's no evidence for them in the game. It is absurd.
Not that I fundamentally have a problem with it being absurd. It's a gameplay mechanic. It's there to provide an interesting experience and to allow the player to feel increasingly powerful over the course of the game. It's an abstraction to add to playability. Which is fine. Changing over to stat customisation primarily on equipment is much the same, a gameplay decision. Neither have any real basis in anything other than gamplay.
And as such, when people complain about the change because they don't like the gameplay implications, I don't mind - personally, I don't really see the difference in terms of gameplay, but that's just me (I'm not saying I'm in favour of this change - in truth, I don't really see the pont of it, but the actual impact is likely to be negilgable so I don't really object). But when they point out a gameplay abstraction is ridiculous from lore or RP reasons while simultaneously defending an equally ridiculous abstraction, I just laugh.
It's much like the healing threads. Apparently DA:O having lore breaking healing is fine, but DA:I being possibly lore breaking in different way is not.
Builds meaning distribution of stats and effects obviously. Now you have to choose between attributes or a special effect like life gain on hit. That is a much more complex choice than herp derp "Do I want strength for warrior or dexterity?"
..or "do I want to use a sword, or an axe, or a mace.."
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