293 réponses à ce sujet

[Blisscolas]

No I am frustrated about a game leveling up for me.

 

same difference?

 

Anyways, as I said earlier, we have no idea of the value of said stat points

[Rawgrim]

Seriously? If we were being totally pedantic about it we might as well enforce Fallout: New Vegas's hardcore mode on everybody and have them worry about food and water etc. and healing should have to be done by a doctor or healing mage and I could go on but I can't be bothered. Gameplay is supposed to be fun but tying it to lore would be ridiculously stupid. Lore is not pointless, it's something to appreciate seperate from gameplay.

 

99 percent of the rpgs out there follow the lore they set in the first place. That includes combat agreeing with the lore.

 

By your logic it would be ok for a rogue to summon "the death star" because of...gameplay.

[kheldorin]

You can specialize in more than one. + putting a pint or two in other weapons is smart. Some creatures are immune to slashing weapons etc, and some immune to blunt weapons.

Yeah but not having to specialize and just swap out the gear is even better than relying on a weapon system that's based on proficiency points.

[Lumix19]

And that is sort of a problem here. Nowadays most players don't have any patience / don't have time ... I don't know why,  it is not for me to judge them. But because of that games are getting simplier and simplier. Not many wants to spent some time to learn about the game, its mechanics etc .. etc ...

 

 

All I can say ( or rather show ) is this. Compare those 2 cRPGs manuals and fiugure out the rest by yourself.

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Probably because video games have wide appeal now, they aren't relegated to a specific group of people who actually have the time and energy to put into reading a 400 page manual. Changing audience means games are attracting people who have children to look after and jobs to do and other such commitments, hence only a small fraction of the total audience has the time or energy or willpower to obsess over tiny details. Tabletop RPGs still have this though because they haven't really attracted the same audience that video games have.

[Rawgrim]

same difference?

 

Anyways, as I said earlier, we have no idea of the value of said stat points

 

Its not about the vallue. It is about the player not being allowed to place them himself.

[Rawgrim]

Yeah but not having to specialize and just swap out the gear is even better than relying on a weapon system that's based on proficiency points.

 

That would mean that the character is just automatically just as good with an axe as with a sword. More hand-holding.

[PhroXenGold]

99 percent of the rpgs out there follow the lore they set in the first place. That includes combat agreeing with the lore.

 

I have never played an RPG without huge abstractions in combat. And I've played a lot of RPGs.

[EnduinRaylene]

Clearly. It also is an example of how the lore in the game is now utterly pointless.

They've explained this multiples times, all the way back to Awakening and Velanna. They are not actually teleporting and what was said about teleportation in WoT was about how traveling works. Mages can't travel halfway across the world in the blink of an eye, dematerializing here and rematerializing there, they have to actual travel that distance in some way. That doesn't prevent them from using spells to hasten their travel over short distances through various means, like illusions or speed. There's nothing lore breaking about either instance in DAI. As explained by DG earlier this year.

 

http://forum.bioware...es/?p=16280566 

 

 

The Cardinal Rule is meant to explain that magic cannot allow someone to disappear from one spot and reappear in another without somehow crossing the intermediate space. So no teleporting to the other side of a wall, no enemies appearing out of thin air through magic, no ability to travel long distances instantaneously.

 

In gameplay terms, this affects how teleportation usually comes into play--namely a means to have enemies come and go, or for mages to instantly bypass obstacles. It's not meant to prevent characters from traveling quickly from one side of the battlefield to the other, at least within their sight. There are lots of ways this might happen other than strict "teleportation" (Velanna traveling through the ground is one), but I know the visual effects guys can get carried away sometimes. There's a line to walk between having spell effects look flashy and having them appear lore-breaking--which, to me, the enemy mage "jump" effect ended up being (there was meant to be a flash between where they disappeared and where they reappeared, but that got dropped). They've committed to playing the effects a little closer to the chest this time around insofar as this particular rule goes.

 

[Rawgrim]

I have never played an RPG without huge abstractions in combat. And I've played a lot of RPGs.

 

How would you say BG or Planescape breaks the lore?

[viperidae]

I'm not disagreeing that we shouldn't use our tools to our advantage, but to solely rely on our gear and tools seems like it'd be a mistep.

 

Look at it this way;

 

Tony Stark is awesome, but he's not really that dangerous once you get him outside of the Iron Man suit, unless he's got gadgets on hand or access to enough tools that he can MacGyver himself something to use to arm himself or escape.

 

Bruce Wayne however is dangerous even when out of the Batman suit, because he's trained and honed himself for years, so that even with his armour, equipment and gear, he's still the gorramed Batman.

 

I'd honestly prefer to be an Inquisitor that increases their own skills, in addition to upgrading their gear and equipment, rather than be one who's forced to rely on their equipment only, because we never know when we're going to get a situation like Fort Drakon in Origins and Silverite Mine in Awakening when we temporarily lose all our gear and are forced to try to escape in our skivvies?

 

who ever said we relied only on gear, the inquisitor's talents still increase, and in my opinion choosing unique, passive abilities is still interesting character development. It's still the inquisitor's own skill that created magic, that drives the sword. The equipment is just more important.

 

I would equate the inquisitor to somewhere between Iron Man and Batman then, a skilled and talented individual aided by a magic/high-tech armor and weaponry. Commander shepard would be a good example, he/she is talented and has cool abilities and a lot of skill with weaponry, but stil isn't that dangerous without full armor and an arsenal of guns. On the other hand, the Warden is then basically superman, an unstoppable superhero in a nice costume, who could wreck anybody with a spoon.

[Lumix19]

99 percent of the rpgs out there follow the lore they set in the first place. That includes combat agreeing with the lore.

 

By your logic it would be ok for a rogue to summon "the death star" because of...gameplay.

Umm no. That's an extension of logic to ridiculous proportions. What I'm saying is that gameplay has to be cut some slack otherwise it ceases to be fun.

[viperidae]

I'm not disagreeing that we shouldn't use our tools to our advantage, but to solely rely on our gear and tools seems like it'd be a mistep.

 

Look at it this way;

 

Tony Stark is awesome, but he's not really that dangerous once you get him outside of the Iron Man suit, unless he's got gadgets on hand or access to enough tools that he can MacGyver himself something to use to arm himself or escape.

 

Bruce Wayne however is dangerous even when out of the Batman suit, because he's trained and honed himself for years, so that even with his armour, equipment and gear, he's still the gorramed Batman.

 

I'd honestly prefer to be an Inquisitor that increases their own skills, in addition to upgrading their gear and equipment, rather than be one who's forced to rely on their equipment only, because we never know when we're going to get a situation like Fort Drakon in Origins and Silverite Mine in Awakening when we temporarily lose all our gear and are forced to try to escape in our skivvies?

 

who ever said we relied only on gear, the inquisitor's talents still increase, and in my opinion choosing unique, passive abilities is still interesting character development. It's still the inquisitor's own skill that created magic, that drives the sword. The equipment is just more important.

 

I would equate the inquisitor to somewhere between Iron Man and Batman then, a skilled and talented individual aided by a magic/high-tech armor and weaponry. Commander shepard would be a good example, he/she is talented and has cool abilities and a lot of skill with weaponry, but stil isn't that dangerous without full armor and an arsenal of guns. On the other hand, the Warden is then basically superman, an unstoppable superhero in a nice costume, who could wreck anybody with a spoon.

[Rawgrim]

They've explained this multiples times, all the way back to Awakening and Velanna. They are not actually teleporting and what was said about teleportation in WoT was about how traveling works. Mages can't travel halfway across the world in the blink of an eye, dematerializing here and rematerializing there, they have to actual travel that distance in some way. That doesn't prevent them from using spells to hasten their travel over short distances through various means, like illusions or speed. There's nothing lore breaking about either instance in DAI. As explained by DG earlier this year.

 

http://forum.bioware...es/?p=16280566 

 

 

Then why can't the mages cast a "teleport" spell that can do the same thing Varric's device can? Seems like a simple and common spell.

[Blisscolas]

Its not about the vallue. It is about the player not being allowed to place them himself.

 

I believe that if a point is worth say 3% of additional magic resistance or if a point is worth 0.1% magic resistance then value matters. User input is useless if the expected change is negligible. You had high tier armor in DA:O with only 30 armor rating. If you look at some screenshots, "normal" armor ratings in DA:I have more than 100, and just on the official website I saw this staff that had 100+ dps. Value of a point is everything, once again because of maths

[kheldorin]

That would mean that the character is just automatically just as good with an axe as with a sword. More hand-holding.

You reward the player that makes the right decision by equipping the right weapon. That's good. You're not forcing them to fight with a weapon they only have one proficiency point in just because the enemy is immune to everything else through no fault of their own.

[Rawgrim]

Umm no. That's an extension of logic to ridiculous proportions. What I'm saying is that gameplay has to be cut some slack otherwise it ceases to be fun.

 

Some slack, yes. Abosolutely. But the line has to be drawn somewhere. Telling the player this and that is impossible, only to show someone doing exactly that 5 mins later is pushing it.

[PhroXenGold]

And that is sort of a problem here. Nowadays most players don't have any patience / don't have time ... I don't know why,  it is not for me to judge them. But because of that games are getting simplier and simplier. Not many wants to spent some time to learn about the game, its mechanics etc .. etc ...

 

 

All I can say ( or rather show ) is this. Compare those 2 cRPGs manuals and fiugure out the rest by yourself.

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Ever heard the phrase "show, don't tell"? A great game should not need a manual at all, beyond telling you how to install it and possibly a basic list of the controls. You should be able to learn it by playing, through intuitive and logical mechanics. Great games mechanically (as opposed to games like BG2 which are great for aspects like story and characters not the underlying mechanics, which are, frankly, pretty crap - and this ic oming from someone who considers PS:T it's only real rival for best game ever), are built around the priciples of "easy to learn, hard to master". The core mechanics should be simple and easy for anyone to pick up.

[LonewandererD]

I suppose this is what its like to watch Nascar. Another lap around the field then.

 

-D-

[Rawgrim]

I believe that if a point is worth say 3% of additional magic resistance or if a point is worth 0.1% magic resistance then value matters. User input is useless if the expected change is negligible. You had high tier armor in DA:O with only 30 armor rating. If you look at some screenshots, "normal" armor ratings in DA:I have more than 100, and just on the official website I saw this staff that had 100+ dps. Value of a point is everything, once again because of maths

 

I mean the complaint isn't about the value.

[Rawgrim]

Ever heard the phrase "show, don't tell"? A great game should not need a manual at all, beyond telling you how to install it and possibly a basic list of the controls. You should be able to learn it by playing, through intuitive and logical mechanics. Great games mechanically (as opposed to games like BG2 which are great for aspects like story and characters not the underlying mechanics, which are, frankly, pretty crap - and this ic oming from someone who considers PS:T it's only real rival for best game ever), are built around the priciples of "easy to learn, hard to master". The core mechanics should be simple and easy for anyone to pick up.

 

Ever hear about "Don't show the things you tell people is impossible to do"?

 

Edit: The underlying mechanics in BG is what keeps people playing it today. Immense replay value.

[Blisscolas]

I mean the complaint isn't about the value.

 

Well, your not being able to assign points is linked to that

[Muspade]

I suppose this is what its like to watch Nascar. Another lap around the field then.

-D-

It's like having a Fist fight with a Wall.

[Lumix19]

Some slack, yes. Abosolutely. But the line has to be drawn somewhere. Telling the player this and that is impossible, only to show someone doing exactly that 5 mins later is pushing it.

Well in the case of Varric's device just treat it like the Rogues in DA2, it's not actually teleportation lorewise. Mechanically it looks like it, but it isn't.

[EnduinRaylene]

Then why can't the mages cast a "teleport" spell that can do the same thing Varric's device can? Seems like a simple and common spell.

They probably could but the classes are designed so they don't have that option. It's the same reason they don't have blood magic or healing spells or entropy spells this time around, they're not removed from the lore and no longer a part of the universe, it's simply that these mages don't learn those particular schools of magic. 

[Lumix19]

They probably could but the classes are designed so they don't have that option. It's the same reason they don't have blood magic or healing spells or entropy spells this time around, they're not removed from the lore and no longer a part of the universe, it's simply that these mages don't learn those particular schools of magic. 

Actually it specifically states that magic can't be used for teleportation. I just don't consider Varric's device to be actual teleportation.