242 réponses à ce sujet

[Lux]

I like most of what I've seen of Inquisition so far. However, I feel that it may be missing a crucial component by not having a more pronounced form of health regeneration after combat in the lower difficulty levels.

 

Combat will be focused on the prevention of damage, which might be counter-intuitive to what players are used to, and healing will be more limited than in the previous two games.

 

Concerns

1. Players may be too dependent on camps.
2. Exploration in massive areas may be hindered more than it should be.
3. A good amount of players may not "get" the new combat/healing synergy to the point of becoming a source of frustration.

Suggestion

• On easy and normal difficulty, allow a slower rate of health regeneration outside combat (up to 30-60 seconds) that could be sped up by armor or weapon add-ons. 

OR

• Allow higher regeneration caps on lower difficulty levels: 65% on easy and 50% on normal.

 

This could provide a softer/friendlier introduction to the intended game play. Otherwise it may be too much of a departure to what players were used to in Dragon Age and in games with massive open areas for exploration.

 

 

A must read on the changes

A hands-on overview of the new combat and healing.

 

 

Planned health regeneration caps

• Easy: 50%
• Normal: 25%
• Hard: 10%
• Nightmare: 10%

No regeneration if you are above the health cap.

[Kantr]

The game is now made around the fact that you cant regen and everything is balanced to it (did you read the post?)

 

Why not wait until the game is out before making an opinion?

[KoorahUK]

Health regeneration makes combat pointless. Survive to the end of the fight and its as if combat never happened. 

The more I see of this abandonment of the "expected" feature, the more I think its a good idea. 

[Lux]

The game is now made around the fact that you cant regen and everything is balanced to it (did you read the post?)

Why not wait until the game is out before making an opinion?

I've read the post and I'm giving feedback.

Health regeneration makes combat pointless. Survive to the end of the fight and its as if combat never happened.
The more I see of this abandonment of the "expected" feature, the more I think its a good idea.

Regen AFTER combat. I don't think mainstream players would feel the same way.

[Dio Demon]

I've read the post and I'm giving feedback.


Regen AFTER combat. I don't think mainstream players would fee the same way. A modicum of regen would be a middle term.

Then it becomes wait for five minutes to regenerate health, it's not a solution it's a hindrance.

[Lee80]

Limited health regain is a horrible idea, and despite all the explanations and reassurances it simply doesn't add anything good to the game.  That's my opinion on the matter.  It's only made worse by the fact that they added a function that will in short force a large portion of the fanbase to play on easy, but also they decided that they had to cater to the elitist with a nightmare and hard trophy.  

 

I'm still going to enjoy the game, but for me it knocks the game down from a perfect 10 right out of the gate.  Here's hoping the rest of the game will still be amazing!  I hope! 

[Lux]

Then it becomes wait for five minutes to regenerate health, it's not a solution it's a hindrance.

Was thinking more of close to a minute than the usual few seconds. Enough to get people more prone to use the preferred dev mechanics instead of feeling outright disgruntled about it. At least there would be options.

@Lee80

I agree that no regen should be left to higher difficulties and that it will be an issue on release.

[KoorahUK]

Then it becomes wait for five minutes to regenerate health, it's not a solution it's a hindrance.

Indeed instead of a boon it becomes a major pita becasue folks will feel obliged to wait until their health regens rather than deal with what they have. 

Then the forum will be flooded with "Health Regen too slow, pls fix kthxbye".

 

Oh and I am definitley a "mainstream player", I do not consider myself hardcore or even particularly skillful, but I can see the benefits of removing healing when viewed in the context of combat balancing.

Just because something is expected, doesn't mean its the zenith of game design.

 

 

[fchopin]

Health regeneration makes combat pointless. Survive to the end of the fight and its as if combat never happened. 

The more I see of this abandonment of the "expected" feature, the more I think its a good idea.

So you want the injured to continue travelling after a fight even if injured instead of creating a camp and resting for the night to recover?

The way i would do it is if the injured do not rest until they recover then the injury should get worse until they eventually die.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Limited health regain is a horrible idea, and despite all the explanations and reassurances it simply doesn't add anything good to the game.  That's my opinion on the matter.  It's only made worse by the fact that they added a function that will in short force a large portion of the fanbase to play on easy, but also they decided that they had to cater to the elitist with a nightmare and hard trophy.  

 

I'm still going to enjoy the game, but for me it knocks the game down from a perfect 10 right out of the gate.  Here's hoping the rest of the game will still be amazing!  I hope! 

 

Sometimes I want to joke that Bioware's aiming DAI at the "action romance LGBT 'Call of Duty' 'Dark Souls'" crowd.

 

Seriously though, it just seems like they're shifting heal spam to barrier/guard spam for DAI. I wager it's going to work exactly the same way, just pre-fight instead of during or post-fight.

[wolfhowwl]

Limited health regain is a horrible idea, and despite all the explanations and reassurances it simply doesn't add anything good to the game. That's my opinion on the matter. It's only made worse by the fact that they added a function that will in short force a large portion of the fanbase to play on easy, but also they decided that they had to cater to the elitist with a nightmare and hard trophy.

I'm still going to enjoy the game, but for me it knocks the game down from a perfect 10 right out of the gate. Here's hoping the rest of the game will still be amazing! I hope!

Wow, two whole achievements! Such catering.

Git gud.

[Vapaa]

- Players will be too dependent on camps; it's good enough that they will serve as waypoints and replenish potions.

 

Nothing wrong with being dependant on camps.

 

- Exploration in wide areas will be hindered more than it should be.

 

You don't know that.

 

- A good amount of players may not "get" its absence to the point of becoming a source of frustration.

 

Players should learn the basic game mechanics, come on

 

- It seems to be too much of an artificial barrier.

 

Because health regen is NOT artificial ?

[caradoc2000]

Why not wait until the game is out before making an opinion?

Because the all the evidence (i.e. existing games that don't regenerate health) predicts non-regenerating health is a bad idea.
 

Survive to the end of the fight and its as if combat never happened.

 It is not as if combat never happened - you have The Loot^tm
 

Then it becomes wait for five minutes to regenerate health

Instead, it becomes walk for five minutes to the camp and back - after every battle.

[Blisscolas]

I feel that Inquisition will be missing a crucial component by not having a form of health regeneration after combat.

- Players will be too dependent on camps; it's good enough that they will serve as waypoints and replenish potions.
- Exploration in wide areas will be hindered more than it should be.
- A good amount of players may not "get" its absence to the point of becoming a source of frustration.
- It seems to be too much of an artificial barrier.

Possibility/consideration:
Allow a slow rate of health replenishment outside combat instead of removing what has been an expected feature for this type of game. It would be a softer/friendlier introduction to the intended game play. Otherwise it can be too much of an abrupt departure of what a player was expecting, leading to unwanted conflict.

 

You post this and yet have an avatar picture of BG.....Didn't see the health regen in that game (resting is awfully dangerous in place with mind flayers for example) and it's still considered one of the best RPG to date (both gameplay and story wise). Do you see the irony?

[Silcron]

It's not that different a system from the other DA's. You just spam barrier and work hard to get guard. Just think of it like something between ME3 and DA. You have your health, it doens't regen to full unless you use medigel/potions but instead of having shields by default you use spells and abilites to build it, and it's basically desposable, temporary health. If/when you get good enough you'll be constantly taking damage to the shields but none/little to health.

Patrick Weekes made a really good post explaining how it works and it cleared my concerns about the new system. Sorry if I can't give you a link right now, but it was in the DAI forum.

[Paul E Dangerously]

You post this and yet have an avatar picture of BG.....Didn't see the health regen in that game (resting is awfully dangerous in place with mind flayers for example) and it's still considered one of the best RPG to date (both gameplay and story wise). Do you see the irony?

 

The difference is that depending on your party build in BG/BG2, you can have a metric ton of healing. Cleric spells, ranger spells, paladin spells, druid spells, paladin's lay on hands, the MC's heal ability, potions, scrolls, misc. magical items..

[phantomrachie]

Sometimes I want to joke that Bioware's aiming DAI at the "action romance LGBT 'Call of Duty' 'Dark Souls'" crowd.

 

Seriously though, it just seems like they're shifting heal spam to barrier/guard spam for DAI. I wager it's going to work exactly the same way, just pre-fight instead of during or post-fight.

 

If you think you can spam guard then you don't understand how it works. Guard builds up by a Warrior using certain abilities. Guard means that instead of heal spamming your way to victory, you need to decide which abilities you want to use to build & maintain guard while also making sure your Warrior is dealing a lot of damage.

 

We'll see how it plays out in the game but it seems better to me.

 

Then again, I'm pleased when I see developers playing & experimenting with standard gaming features, if it works, it can lead to a really interesting new feature and if it doesn't, atleast they tried instead of using the same old features that are in every game.

[ManOfSteel]

No. It most certainly is not.

[Paul E Dangerously]

If you think you can spam guard then you don't understand how it works. Guard builds up by a Warrior using certain abilities. Guard means that instead of heal spamming your way to victory, you need to decide which abilities you want to use to build & maintain guard while also making sure your Warrior is dealing a lot of damage.

 

We'll see how it plays out in the game but it seems better to me.

 

Then again, I'm pleased when I see developers playing & experimenting with standard gaming features, if it works, it can lead to a really interesting new feature and if it doesn't, atleast they tried instead of using the same old features that are in every game.

 

It's about like DA2's healing, if the cooldowns are even remotely similar. It's just "prevent X damage" instead of "restore X damage dealt".

[Blisscolas]

The difference is that depending on your party build in BG/BG2, you can have a metric ton of healing. Cleric spells, ranger spells, paladin spells, druid spells, paladin's lay on hands, the MC's heal ability, potions, scrolls, misc. magical items..

 

It's still limited to how many spells are memorized. They don't have any sort of cooldown and only reset from scrolls, other spells or resting.

[Paul E Dangerously]

It's still limited to how many spells are memorized. They don't have any sort of cooldown and only reset from scrolls, other spells or resting.

 

It's a fair sight less limiting than "You have one really expensive heal spell with an ungodly long cooldown" and "You can only carry a handful of healing potions for everyone".

 

Some of the IE engine D&D games even add cleric heal spell conversion, meaning you don't have to memorize.

[10K]

Practice makes perfect. I would hate a health regen in easy or normal only. Because when I do decide to play on higher difficulties I won't be use to it. Play the game and eventually no health regen won't even bother you.

[phantomrachie]

It's about like DA2's healing, if the cooldowns are even remotely similar. It's just "prevent X damage" instead of "restore X damage dealt".

 

No, not really. DA2 Heal spells could be spammed, you didn't have to build healing by performing certain abilities.

 

Whatever is left of the warrior's guard stays on the warrior after the fight meaning that you could use trash fights to help build guard for the boss, its much more tactical than getting your mage to cast heal.

 

It's also a more interesting idea then using regening health or a healer 

[Blisscolas]

It's a fair sight less limiting than "You have one really expensive heal spell with an ungodly long cooldown" and "You can only carry a handful of healing potions for everyone".

 

Some of the IE engine D&D games even add cleric heal spell conversion, meaning you don't have to memorize.

 

how is it less limiting? you got cooldown so you can just stand there and wait for it to comes back and you have up to 12 (if I'm not mistaken by what i saw on videos and streams) healing potions. Camps are not that far away and you don't really have to endanger yourself when resting (also you can actually run away from combat). Tougher enemies are also there for a reason. they are used as an artificial gate so that you don't go wandering in the "wrong" zone

[KoorahUK]

So you want the injured to continue travelling after a fight even if injured instead of creating a camp and resting for the night to recover?

The way i would do it is if the injured do not rest until they recover then the injury should get worse until they eventually die.

If we are looking at this conceptually rather than mechancially, then yes I do want the injured to continue forward. They don't need to stop everytime someone takes a knock or a slice, they push on to the next camp where they can heal up.

I love the idea of my party stumbling in to camp, out of health potions battered and bruised after fighting their way through a small army of bad guys. I love the idea of needing to take a breather, rest up, refill my supplies before heading out again. Makes me feel that my heroes are real rather than superhumans and it makes combat feel like it means something other than being a speed bump and a loot generator. 

 

"Do I really want to take on the giant bear? I have a fade rift to close and its probably going to be a hard fight. What does fighting that bear gain me?"

Combat with a point rather than just a relentless xp grinder. Thats why i like this change.