242 réponses à ce sujet

[PhroXenGold]

 

 

 

It's more about options with a little bit of continuity for me. Dragon Age had as many potions you wanted but with a recharge timer + health regen post combat + camp. Now it will be something like 8 potions for 4 characters + camps.

 

Casual gamers might not understand the departure from a more forgiving setting - that seems to be popular, giving sales figures from less "severe" RPGs - to a more hardcore flavor.

 

 

What is this obsession with saying this system is "more hardcore" or "less forgiving"? It's not. It's simply different. It's not about being more challenging it's about giving challenges which differ from those in previous games, and are more varied than them (after all, doing the same thing over and over gets boring). It's about managing your resources over time rather than solely winin a single fight. That doesn't make it "hardcore". I'll be amazed if, provided you're on an appropriate difficulty level, DA:I isn't casual enough for pretty much anyone who could get through the previous games if not easier.

[10K]

Heath regen can be exploited. You can run a short distance from battle and the baddies will stop chasing you, then wait for your heath to regen, only to re-engage the enemies. So many times I did this in Origins, sometimes it happened unintentionally. I'm glad heath regen is gone, it's just a safety net that is not needed. No regen just makes learning how to utilize tactics much more valuable. With regen all I'll be worrying about is surviving the battle i'm engaged in, tactics have no meaning because there's no penalty for not utilizing them as long as I survive. Even so if I'm in the red, all I'd have to do is exploit regen; disengaging then re-engaging. Battles become more about finding flaws in the AI. No regen means players will actually have to think about each battle they'll involve themselves in, and think if it's worth it or not.   

[Paul E Dangerously]

What is this obsession with saying this system is "more hardcore" or "less forgiving"? It's not. It's simply different. It's not about being more challenging it's about giving challenges which differ from those in previous games, and are more varied than them (after all, doing the same thing over and over gets boring). It's about managing your resources over time rather than solely winin a single fight. That doesn't make it "hardcore". I'll be amazed if, provided you're on an appropriate difficulty level, DA:I isn't casual enough for pretty much anyone who could get through the previous games if not easier.

 

That's not saying much, though. The Casual level in Bioware games is practically "press button to win". And no, I'm not one of those guys, it's just an observation.

[PhroXenGold]

That's not saying much, though. The Casual level in Bioware games is practically "press button to win". And no, I'm not one of those guys, it's just an observation.

 

Well, that's the point. And it still will be like that. So the casuals won't have any problem with this, will they?

[Solid_Altair]

Is it confirmed that enemies won't respawn if you go back to camp or simply if you go far from the area where you killed them? I'd like the spawining system to be a bit more dynamic than Dark Souls, which is extremely static. If the areas simply stay clear, than camp spam might be a problem.

 

IMO, Lightning Returns had the best approach. Kinda like Dark Souls, but you had to buy the potions and that would slow down your proggression. Plus, losing a fight had consequences. The enemies would also respawn, but more dynamically. This seemed like the best solution to make players care the most about damage mitigation and DPS. When you are between vendors and in an area with dangerous monsters, you really have to pick your battles or dread fight a monster who can hunt you down. I loved going through many average power monsters, then fight a boss and barely win the fight, after spending all the postions and special gauges things and being almost dead myself.

 

'No Healer' is literally what made my mind about buying this game.

[Zatche]

The problem is trash mobs fights are meaningless. I hated the a Roads for slogging through mindless fight after mindless fight. Yes, high damage output was predicated on health regen and being able to "win" a fight even if I had 1 HP per party member to end the fight because by the time I had my next mindless fight I was back. High damage output let me blow through those fights faster as well so the slog seemed less...sloggy?

The change that has been made doesn't make trash mob fights less trashy. It changes how you fight them it sounds like. You toss up barriers and guard and then grind away at them. It is a safer, albeit, slower way to fight. There is still no intent that any individual encounter is dangerous but now the accumulation of damage as you slog through something like the Roads for example will eventually become a threat. It does make me worry that the Roads are going to be the "model" because it is just that sort of dungeon that will play well to to attritional model no health regen wants to use.

You're mostly explaining what I like about games with no automatic health regen. When I'm playing Bioshock infinite, one soldier is easy to kill, but there is still tension, because if I kill the soldier haphazardly, then I will lose a portion of health, screwing myself over the long run. That doesn't make the game super hardcore. You just have to be a bit cautious, depending on the difficulty level.

[KoorahUK]

The problem is trash mobs fights are meaningless. I hated the a Roads for slogging through mindless fight after mindless fight. Yes, high damage output was predicated on health regen and being able to "win" a fight even if I had 1 HP per party member to end the fight because by the time I had my next mindless fight I was back. High damage output let me blow through those fights faster as well so the slog seemed less...sloggy?

The change that has been made doesn't make trash mob fights less trashy. It changes how you fight them it sounds like. You toss up barriers and guard and then grind away at them. It is a safer, albeit, slower way to fight. There is still no intent that any individual encounter is dangerous but now the accumulation of damage as you slog through something like the Roads for example will eventually become a threat. It does make me worry that the Roads are going to be the "model" because it is just that sort of dungeon that will play well to to attritional model no health regen wants to use.

The very fact that they are known as "trash" fights sums up how much worth they are.

We need to look at this change holistically, because at present there is a certain amount of applying DA:I combat mechancis with DAO/2 combat design.

 

I wouldn't worry about the Deep Roads being the model for DA:I combat. I think that is as far from what DA:I combat is as its possible to get (or at least I hope so). For a start, for all its size, the Deep Roads and every other map in DA games were a very, very linear experience. You pretty much HAD to fight your way through the trash to get to your destination. In DA:I there will usually be far more freedom to bypass less important fights due to the size of the environment being traversed, in fact you are expected to pick and choose your battles. Mike Laidlaw said precisely this in the Crestwood gameplay video at last years E3, and you may recall in the Gamescom video with the Lady Inquisitor, Blackwall even tells you to ignore the undead and "get to the castle". 

And this is a key - you need to decide if risking your parties health to tackle a group of bandits chilling around a camp fire is worth it, because you know when you get to that castle where your objective is, you will need likely have a real fight on your hands. All of a sudden, that 'trash' fight earns meaning, because you don't have this limitless supply of never ending health. 

[rprm1987]

I've read the post and I'm giving feedback.


Regen AFTER combat. I don't think mainstream players would fee the same way. A modicum of regen would be a middle term.

Nope do not like it at all.

[rprm1987]

The very fact that they are known as "trash" fights sums up how much worth they are.

We need to look at this change holistically, because at present there is a certain amount of applying DA:I combat mechancis with DAO/2 combat design.

 

I wouldn't worry about the Deep Roads being the model for DA:I combat. I think that is as far from what DA:I combat is as its possible to get (or at least I hope so). For a start, for all its size, the Deep Roads and every other map in DA games were a very, very linear experience. You pretty much HAD to fight your way through the trash to get to your destination. In DA:I there will usually be far more freedom to bypass less important fights due to the size of the environment being traversed, in fact you are expected to pick and choose your battles. Mike Laidlaw said precisely this in the Crestwood gameplay video at last years E3, and you may recall in the Gamescom video with the Lady Inquisitor, Blackwall even tells you to ignore the undead and "get to the castle". 

And this is a key - you need to decide if risking your parties health to tackle a group of bandits chilling around a camp fire is worth it, because you know when you get to that castle where your objective is, you will need likely have a real fight on your hands. All of a sudden, that 'trash' fight earns meaning, because you don't have this limitless supply of never ending health. 

 

You sir spoky my opinion in better words. Kudos to you.

[Elrodeus]

Because the all the evidence (i.e. existing games that don't regenerate health) predicts non-regenerating health is a bad idea.
 

LOL

There are way more games that have come out that don't have health regeneration than those that do. Most of them are way more memorable than the ones that did have health regeneration. Health regeneration didn't start coming around until the first Halo. And I always felt RPG's with automatic health regen negated the purpose of using any healing mechanics at all, since you could go all out offense at the start of the battle and as long as you had a tiny bit of health when the last person fell it wouldn't even matter that you almost died.

 

If you ask me they should go back to making combat really matter like RPG's are supposed to. You get poisoned in the middle of a fight and guess what, you're still poisoned when the fight is over. Better get that poison taken care of.

[Elrodeus]

Fricken double post.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I hated health regen when it first appeared in CRPGs, and I'm ecstatic that it's going away.

[Commander Michael]

Heath regen can be exploited. You can run a short distance from battle and the baddies will stop chasing you, then wait for your heath to regen, only to re-engage the enemies. So many times I did this in Origins, sometimes it happened unintentionally. I'm glad heath regen is gone, it's just a safety net that is not needed. No regen just makes learning how to utilize tactics much more valuable. With regen all I'll be worrying about is surviving the battle i'm engaged in, tactics have no meaning because there's no penalty for not utilizing them as long as I survive. Even so if I'm in the red, all I'd have to do is exploit regen; disengaging then re-engaging. Battles become more about finding flaws in the AI. No regen means players will actually have to think about each battle they'll involve themselves in, and think if it's worth it or not.   

 

This same "exploit" can be done in Inquistion as well. Just run away from enemies when low on health and go to camp to heal and come back with full HP. What's the difference between that and auto-regen?

 

Only difference: convenience. 

[caradoc2000]

If you ask me they should go back to making combat really matter like RPG's are supposed to.

Heh, I didn't ask you - I just offered my opinion, not that it matters (or should matter).
 
Edit; My opinion is - nonhealth regenerating games will make me say Star Wars: "I have a bad feeling about this",
if I am wrong, I couldn't be happier about this.

[Shadow Fox]

Play on easy.

[JCFR]

I've never played Dark Souls. I am going to get Bloodborne though which is made by the same people right?

 

 Well, i've played the first part and it was as i feared and expectetd (yeah i really expectetd it but after hearing so much about it i thought "give it a try")... too frustrating for me. I hated to get stuck on the same enemy and die over and over. Some like the challenge but i need a certain degree of tolerance for failures (f.e. in case i push the wrong button in the heat of combat).

So if you wanna play those kind of game, make sure you can take the frustration... i certainly can't. 

 

About the lack of regenerating health: I don`t dislike the thought of that, as long as the healing-system is ok... makes me remember the days of oldschool-Rpgs. But for god's sake i wished, they would've added a healer- type of class... a cleric or something - like in ad&d.

And one thing i'm sick of, are those "cooldowns" for use of potions (it makes sense in MMOs since otherwise healers would be much less needed for grouping but not in a single-player-rpg). If i have 10 healing-potions in my bag, then let me use them as i see fit, and don't put a 1Min-cooldown on it. So stupid.

[Lux]

I hated health regen when it first appeared in CRPGs, and I'm ecstatic that it's going away.

It's the greater limitation around healing that got me worried about the lack of this buffer. In a game like Skyrim you get to drink as many potions you need/have in your inventory or just use a healing spell while you're on the move. Here circumstances are maybe too strict.

My opinion is - nonhealth regenerating games will make me say Star Wars: "I have a bad feeling about this",if I am wrong, I couldn't be happier about this.

I couldn't agree more.

Play on easy.

Because anything else would be too frustrating? Isn't that a bit of a flawed concept?

[Solid_Altair]

In a game like Skyrim you get to drink as many potions you need/have in your inventory...

And this ruined Skyrim's combat. It was too easy to always have a bazilion of potions and use them instantly as many times as you wanted. You'd only die you'd get one-shotted, pretty much.

 

I played without potions in my 3rd playthrough and it was much better... a little too hard at the very beginning, but much better overall.

[Jaison1986]

I think the best would be if they made it like GTA 5. Health regenerated about 50% back to normal, while the rest would require an health pack. I'm sure that alone would make backtracking to camp much less frequent, and would also make health potions more of an combat only necessity.

[Solid_Altair]

^ The thing I'd like them to take from GTA is another: that if you die you lose something. In GTA it's 5% of you cash.

[Blisscolas]

I think the best would be if they made it like GTA 5. Health regenerated about 50% back to normal, while the rest would require an health pack. I'm sure that alone would make backtracking to camp much less frequent, and would also make health potions more of an combat only necessity.

 

That's the easy mode in DA:I

[KoorahUK]

That's the easy mode in DA:I

Thats just on revival isn't it? Don't think thats after every fight but i admit I may have missed that.

[PhroXenGold]

Thats just on revival isn't it? Don't think thats after every fight but i admit I may have missed that.

 

Health restores up to a set level (depending on difficulty [50-25-10-10 IIRC]) once you leave combat regardless of whether the character needed reviving or not (I seem to remember the devs saying this was specifically to stop you getting you guys killed so they could get some health back...).

[BartDude52]

To be honest, I'm probably just going to play the game on Casual. I'd normally rather not have combat be too easy, but, in games like this at least, I actually prefer the story, characters, lore, and exploration aspects of the game over the actual gameplay itself. I love to explore, which would mean getting involved in lots of 'unnecessary' or 'trash' fights, and having no regenerating health and only limited health potions discourages doing this in order to save yourself for harder or more 'necessary' fights, which doesn't sound like it would be too enjoyable for me personally This isn't to say that I don't want good gameplay (I do), but I'd rather play a game which has enjoyable gameplay that isn't necessarily too challenging, rather than one which is more challenging but one that I'm not really enjoying even if I am actually getting through it (this is pretty much the main reason why I never play on a difficulty higher than normal on any game. I mean, sure, I could probably get through on a higher difficulty, but I probably wouldn't enjoy it as much).

 

I appreciate that Bioware are trying to be innovative (or whatever) and make players 'think' more about fights in order to improve the gameplay, but I for one just didn't like the sound of this gameplay mechanic the first time I heard of it and I still don't. If you like the sound of this gameplay mechanic and like to be more challenged (or found the gameplay in the previous games to be too easy), then good for you, but that's not the kind of game I want to play. So, in short, thanks, but no thanks, I'll just stick to Casual for now. Hopefully it won't be too bad when I actually get down to playing the game (though I'm not exactly too optimistic at the moment).

[KoorahUK]

Health restores up to a set level (depending on difficulty [50-25-10-10 IIRC]) once you leave combat regardless of whether the character needed reviving or not (I seem to remember the devs saying this was specifically to stop you getting you guys killed so they could get some health back...).

Ah of course. Now that you said that I remember the dev saying so. Cheers PhroXenGold.

So I guess Lux gets what he wants anyway!