242 réponses à ce sujet

[KoorahUK]

To be honest, I'm probably just going to play the game on Casual. I'd normally rather not have combat be too easy, but, in games like this at least, I actually prefer the story, characters, lore, and exploration aspects of the game over the actual gameplay itself. I love to explore, which would mean getting involved in lots of 'unnecessary' or 'trash' fights, and having no regenerating health and only limited health potions discourages doing this in order to save yourself for harder or more 'necessary' fights, which doesn't sound like it would be too enjoyable for me personally This isn't to say that I don't want good gameplay (I do), but I'd rather play a game which has enjoyable gameplay that isn't necessarily too challenging, rather than one which is more challenging but one that I'm not really enjoying even if I am actually getting through it (this is pretty much the main reason why I never play on a difficulty higher than normal on any game. I mean, sure, I could probably get through on a higher difficulty, but I probably wouldn't enjoy it as much).

 

I appreciate that Bioware are trying to be innovative (or whatever) and make players 'think' more about fights in order to improve the gameplay, but I for one just didn't like the sound of this gameplay mechanic the first time I heard of it and I still don't. If you like the sound of this gameplay mechanic and like to be more challenged (or found the gameplay in the previous games to be too easy), then good for you, but that's not the kind of game I want to play. So, in short, thanks, but no thanks, I'll just stick to Casual for now. Hopefully it won't be too bad when I actually get down to playing the game (though I'm not exactly too optimistic at the moment).

Well as my colleague has just pointed out, there is a modicum of health regen after all up to 50% on Easy, 25% on Normal and 10% on Hard and possibly Nightmare too. 

Maybe you need not drop it down as far as you think.

[BartDude52]

@KoorahUK: Wait, so does that mean if, say, I'm playing on Normal, if my health is less than 25%, that it will regenerate back to 25% or that it will regenerate 25% of my total maximum health (e.g. if my health is at 20%, will it regenerate back to 45% or just to 25%?)

[PhroXenGold]

@KoorahUK: Wait, so does that mean if, say, I'm playing on Normal, if my health is less than 25%, that it will regenerate back to 25% or that it will regenerate 25% of my total maximum health (e.g. if my health is at 20%, will it regenerate back to 45% or just to 25%?)

 

From what the devs have said, it seems that it will regenerate back to 25% if you are below that at the end of combat.

[KoorahUK]

@KoorahUK: Wait, so does that mean if, say, I'm playing on Normal, if my health is less than 25%, that it will regenerate back to 25% or that it will regenerate 25% of my total maximum health (e.g. if my health is at 20%, will it regenerate back to 45% or just to 25%?)

 

From what the devs have said, it seems that it will regenerate back to 25% if you are below that at the end of combat.

 

This ^^

It seems the the stated percentages are of total health, not current health, so its back up to 50% of your health on Easy, up to 25% of total health on Normal etc. 

If you end combat on Normal and your health is 26%...no health regen for you

[BartDude52]

Hmm, that doesn't sound that great, but at least it's something, I guess.

[Lux]

It would be really nice if devs could show how the new healing system works in greater detail.

Combat isn't that much of an issue for me; it's what happens after it. There's this massive place to explore, and exploring seems that it's going to be penalized by the limits in the healing process post combat.

This is to say that a 25% health regen on normal doesn't preclude regular backtracking to the nearest active camp, and make exploration a repetitive process that will make players wanting to skip it and just focus on the main quests.

And then all that massive open world that was meticulously created becomes more of a chore than a joy to explore. I can't seem to shake the feeling that there's a ratio of increased frustration between the current setting and the meager means given to go out and about.

 

EDIT: Devs have already shown combat on multiple streams; I've replaced "combat" with "healing" which is the focus of my comment.

[PhroXenGold]

It would be really nice if devs could show the new combat system in greater detail. I think that letting players go blind on something that fundamental is a bad idea, considering that there's already 2 games in the franchise.

Combat isn't that much of an issue for me; it's what happens after it. There's this massive place to explore, and exploring seems that it's going to be penalized by the limits in the healing process post combat.

This is to say that a 25% health regen on normal doesn't preclude regular backtracking to the nearest active camp, and make exploration a repetitive process that will make players wanting to skip it and just focus on the main quests.

And then all that massive open world that was meticulously created becomes more of a chore than a joy to explore. I can't seem to shake the feeling that there's a ratio of increased frustration between the current setting and the meager means given to go out and about.

 

Seriously, why do you keep going on about backtracking? Nothing the devs have said or presented to us suggest that, assuming you are playing on a difficulty level approprate to your playstyle and fighting enemies of your level, you will have to be backtracking often. If you are doing so, it's a clear sign that either i) you're fighting enemies too tough for your level or ii) Your difficulty is set too high.

[Lux]

PhroXenGold,

I write according to feedback and the rationale of this thread. My "obsession" doesn't go beyond this as I very much like most of what devs have kindly presented to us.

There's a number of fixed camps that are fundamental to the healing process, there's a given massive place to adventure on, and there's new combat variables applied to the mix. You don't see a problem with this, at first glance, and that's perfectly fine.

However I see a potential flaw that might get in the way of a fun experience. The challenge seems to be well established with the combat itself, but I hope that exploration won't be penalized by the way they chose to go about with post combat.

[Aurok]

Exploration is enhanced by having some risk attached to it. It's a war torn continent with demons falling out of the sky, not a stroll through a national park.

 

Easy mode and 50% regen is available for the ramblers among us.

[caradoc2000]

with demons falling out of the sky

I thought we were talking about DAI and not DA2

[samuelkaine]

Because of classic play versus a brand new one and that a familiar cushion could smooth things up for casuals.

It does. On casual mode you get automatic regen to 50% of maximum health. More than that and you can go back to camp. Having to go and make a cup of tea while waiting for the 'slow regen' you're suggesting does not make for good story-telling or fun gameplay, but the balance issues it causes necessitate redesigning all the encounters in the game.

 

Also, where's this ide Bioware hve been hiding it come from? They've released a slew of gameplay videos and aimed them not just at RPG gamers but at exactly the people you think will be hopelessly bewildered by the shift.

[AlanC9]

I guess the real question of this thread is how stupid we think gamers are. Not us, mind, but all those other poor fools out there who aren't as smart as we are.

Personally, I think they'll cope just fine.

[Malvus]

Worked fine in DA:O and DA II. Now they decided to cater to the sort of "Dark Souls" masochists out there. ****** perfect.

[Realmzmaster]

How is health regen outside of combat expected? When I first played DAO I was disappointed that it had health regen. DAO was suppose to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. BG had no health regen unless you rested at a camp, drank potions or had items that allowed health regen (Those items were not easy to get. Some invloved quests to secure the item). Setting up camp brought in more strategy into the game because the party could not camp just anywhere without a chance of being attacked. The same with Temple of Elemental Evil and Pool of Radiance:Myth Drannor. 

 

Resource and party management was part of strategy. It has nothing to do with being a Dark Soul masochists, since no health regen was the norm in a lot of early and some later crpgs.

 

The emphasis is different. Long term versus short term planning. It is easy to plan for each battle if the party is always at full health. It different when the party may be low on health then you have to decide whether getting into another battle is worth the cost. You may decide to retreat or sneak around the enemy instead of direct confrontation. You may have the whole party go range weapons.

 

More possibilities open up as far as I am concerned. The gamer has to make use of all the abilities rather than just spam potions and heal spells. Eight abilities per member requires more thought to be given to synergy within the party.

 

I welcome the change.

 

Edit: Corrected spelling mistakes

[Lux]

Exploration is enhanced by having some risk attached to it. It's a war torn continent with demons falling out of the sky, not a stroll through a national park.

 

Easy mode and 50% regen is available for the ramblers among us.

 

I usually play on normal and then hard in subsequent playthroughs. I thought easy mode would be for players who just enjoy the story. If I'd have to start on easy to also enjoy exploration, it would be kind of a downgrade. It's like Skyrim would still be the preferred game not only for a complete open world but also for just plain old exploring.

 

 

 

Also, where's this ide Bioware hve been hiding it come from? They've released a slew of gameplay videos and aimed them not just at RPG gamers but at exactly the people you think will be hopelessly bewildered by the shift.

 

If you're referring to my combat comment, you're right. It was kind of weak given all the footage. If I was a dev, I'd want to smack the person who made that comment.

 

However, in the ads they could add something like "exciting new combat!" among other things about the game, so that potential customers would have a notion that something is different about the franchise. This is taking into account that only a few people take the time to look at game footage prior to release.

 

Suggestion>

 

Tweak health regen to 65% on easy and 50% on normal, and keep the higher difficulty levels as they are. Apologies in advance to the proponents of a greater challenge, and devs who've been working hard on the game.

[StillBornVillain]

How is health regen outside of combat expected? When I first played DAO I was disappointed that it had health regen. DAO was suppose to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. BG had no health regen unless you rested at a camp, drank potions or had items that allowed health regen (Those items were not easy to get. Some invloved quests to secure the item). Setting up camp brought in more strategy into the game because the party could not camp just anywhere without a chance of being attacked. The same with Temple of Elemental Evil and Pool of Radiance:Myth Drannor. 

 

Resource and party management was part of strategy. It has nothing to do with being a Dark Soul masochists, since no health regen was the norm in a lot of early and some later crpgs.

 

The emphasis is different. LOng term versus short term planning. It is easy to plan for each battle if the party is always at full health. It different when the party may be low on health then you have to decide whether getting into another battle is work the cost. You may decide to retreat or sneak around the enemy instead of direct confrontation. You may have the whole party go range weapons.

 

More possibilities open up as far as I am concerned. The gamer has to make use of all the abilities rather than just spam potions and heal spells. Eight abilities per member requires more thought to be given to synergy within the party.

 

I welcome the change.

 

 

Having no Health regen in Baldur's Gate didnt really effect much since you had Healing Spells, Carry as many Potions as you wanted/could afford, and in the wilderness could camp where ever you wanted, granted no enemies where around. and or Pay for an Inn room in every town.

 

So I've been reading this thread for a bit, and I am still confused.

 

Are there Healing Spells in DA:I or.... not. 

 

I have read people mention Buffing spells to Increase Armor or Magic Resist, Resurrection, but no clear Yes or No as to if healing spells are a thing or not.

 

With Limited Potions, No healing spells, and only being able to Camp, at a "Camp Site"  Exploring on the highest difficulity seems like its going to be a chore.

 

I enjoy playing games on a harder difficulity due to the fact that one shotting everything and enemies not denting my HP pool is very boring to em.

 

Employing strategy is what I enjoy, not facerolling and winning without a scratch on me.

 

But it seems that playing the game on Hard will just be a chore, with enemies having more HP and dealing more dmg, forcing you to run back and camp after every fight/buy more pots, etc, and not employing more advanced tactics.

 

I got a bit off track but

 

 

 

 

TL;DR  Are healing spells in this game?  Do enemies get "Smarter" as difficulity is increased, or just get more DMG and HP?

[Keroko]

I usually play on normal and then hard in subsequent playthroughs. I thought easy mode would be for players who just enjoy the story. If I'd have to start on easy to also enjoy exploration, it would be kind of a downgrade. It's like Skyrim would still be the preferred game not only for a complete open world but also for just plain old exploring.

 

Skyrim's kind of a bad example of no-risk exploration, given that you can bump into vampires, daedric cults, tombs filled with mobs and bosses way above your level and insta-kill giants while doing some plain old exploring there.

[Lux]

Skyrim's kind of a bad example of no-risk exploration, given that you can bump into vampires, daedric cults, tombs filled with mobs and bosses way above your level and insta-kill giants while doing some plain old exploring there.

 

I got my fair share of those kind of encounters, and dying because of biting more than I could chew. Rather than risk free, my reasoning is that flexible healing after combat would be friendlier to exploration and wouldn't preclude challenging combat nor the importance of camps.

[Lux]

 

TL;DR  Are healing spells in this game?  Do enemies get "Smarter" as difficulity is increased, or just get more DMG and HP?

 

Healing spells are not in the game. It seems there's a single magic spell that restores the party to full health but it's something that can't be used that often.

 

I don't know if enemies get smarter (that would be nice), but since devs didn't mention anything about an AI revamp, I assume that enemies get extra skills, more damage and HP on higher difficulty levels.

[StillBornVillain]

Healing spells are not in the game. It seems there's a single magic spell that restores the party to full health but it's something that can't be used that often.

 

 

So no healing spells minus some Oh-Snap button.

 

Hmm

 

I'm interested to see how the game plays with no healing spells, did they say how limited the Potions are, as to how many each character can carry.  Is one allowed to camp anywhere, and as often, they like?

 

Skills that Spark HP Regen, or Life Steal Skills?

 

Do Potions have a Cooldown?

- Is it instant HP Restore? or a HOT like effect.

- Does using one Potion also put every other party members Potions on Cooldown?

- Are there AoE healing Potions?

 

And what about Healing in Dragon Age: Origins?

- Did everyone all of a sudden forget how to use those creation magics?

[StillBornVillain]

http://forum.bioware.../#entry17480360

 

After Reading this I feel much better about the choice to remove traditional healing spells and HP Regen outside of combat.

[Keroko]

I got my fair share of those kind of encounters, and dying because of biting more than I could chew. Rather than risk free, my reasoning is that flexible healing after combat would be friendlier to exploration and wouldn't preclude challenging combat nor the importance of camps.

 

Yet it comes at the expense of difficulty. The current system is build on the principle that healing is limited, and everything surrounding combat, from the abilities to your stats to the placement of enemies in the world, is build with the assumption that you will be fighting with a dwindling pool of health. The entire idea is that you'll work to prevent damage rather than heal it.

 

That's why the easier game settings have health regeneration: Because it makes the game easier.

[Lux]

Yet it comes at the expense of difficulty. The current system is build on the principle that healing is limited, and everything surrounding combat, from the abilities to your stats to the placement of enemies in the world, is build with the assumption that you will be fighting with a dwindling pool of health. The entire idea is that you'll work to prevent damage rather than heal it.

 

That's a fairly good assessment of what's intended and I get it.  But would it be fair to say that preventing damage rather than heal it is counter-intuitive to what players are used to?

 

I'll go out on a limb here and use Microsoft as an example of counter-intuitive innovation that most people didn't get: Windows 8. There were a good amount of reasons why it didn't work out as intended, but one of them was the removal of familiar aspects that people were used to. One example is the shutdown button. Most people didn't know where it was. Another was the metro interface on PC. Why could only one app be used at a time? And everyone's favorite: where's the damn start button?

 

Microsoft ditched several conventional and familiar aspects that users perceived as being useful to them. This in turn created confusion, frustration, anger, and bad word of mouth. It is fair to say that Microsoft deserved this. However, I think that it would be unfair for Bioware to get this kind of reaction for ditching too many conventional and familiar features that players perceived as being useful to them. If a new, innovative and interesting combat is being added, take care of its counter-intuitiveness clashing with the perception that players might have of the franchise.

 

Easy, as well as normal mode, should be starting points of this innovative thinking by enveloping it with something useful and familiar: greater recharge caps in health regeneration that would help players accept this new concept. Go crazy with Dragon Age 4 - the point where the market has grown used to it - but let Inquisition be an entry point between the old and the new.

[Keroko]

That's a fairly good assessment of what's intended and I get it.  But would it be fair to say that preventing damage rather than heal it is counter-intuitive to what players are used to?

 

I'm starting to feel old here. What happened to the good old adrenaline rush of diving between enemies for that healthbox? Praying as your health bar has only a millimetre left that your next attack will hit? Being almost paranoid with your potion use because 'there might be an even bigger enemy around the next corner'?

 

Honestly, games without health regeneration aren't anything new. If anything, it's the games with health regeneration that are still the new kid on the block. Zelda games still do it to this very day and people love them. Dark Souls is praised to bits for it, and almost every JRPG has you hoarding your limited potion supply because you're going to need your healer's mana in the boss fight.

 

Another thing these games have in common? Exploration. And they do just fine in that department as well.

 

The market knows what no health regeneration is. They know how to do handle it while exploring. It'll be fine.

[Lumix19]

So no healing spells minus some Oh-Snap button.

 

Hmm

 

I'm interested to see how the game plays with no healing spells, did they say how limited the Potions are, as to how many each character can carry.  Is one allowed to camp anywhere, and as often, they like?

 

Skills that Spark HP Regen, or Life Steal Skills?

 

Do Potions have a Cooldown?

- Is it instant HP Restore? or a HOT like effect.

- Does using one Potion also put every other party members Potions on Cooldown?

- Are there AoE healing Potions?

 

And what about Healing in Dragon Age: Origins?

- Did everyone all of a sudden forget how to use those creation magics?

DON'T EVEN START. This has been said a thousand times and rightly refuted. Just because the PC doesn't have access to healing doesn't mean it has miraculously disappeared from the world. Blood magic isn't available but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist